Can we give Kha's Q an actual mana cost?

Emerald Fang·Mar 16, 2017·44 votes·2,126 views

It's 20 at all ranks. Literally nothing; this is why Kha is broken at the moment, there is no penalty or cost to using Q (which does 400-500 damage already). even 20/25/30/35/40 would be better...

42 Comments

Trash MammaIMar 16, 201717 votes

I liked it better when his Q did nearly no damage when someone wasn't isolated but when they were alone he fukt them up like a real assassin would. Now it doesn't matter if you're isolated or not he's still going to nuke you

invisiblecat1Mar 17, 20171 votes

I don't think this was a direct effect, but more of just because damage is so high right now

XeroKimoMar 17, 20172 votes

I'm sure his Q dmg is no where near any of it's past iterations, if anything the dps has increased when isolated compared to past iterations when evolved and isolated.

If we're looking specifically for non isolated targets, then current one is not the worse, and probably is actually around the same damage for every iteration, but I know for sure, the worse was when riot for some reason buffed his Q evolve so that whether the target was isolated or not dealt the bonus %missing hp dmg. So that is the worse to deal with as a non isolated target

dominusxMar 17, 20173 votes

you think you would even blink if the old kha'zix used the non nerfed current masteries? lol i'd oneshot you midair without even landing to autoattack like i have to do now. We would be able to doublejumpfrom full hp targets not half hp targets in montages.

GULAG 4 UMar 17, 20171 votes

140k on k6. Can confirm.

dominusxMar 17, 20171 votes

Kha evo somewhere having wet dreams of this. heh.

GULAG 4 UMar 17, 20172 votes

Tbh khazix isn't even that strong anymore, lol.

JhamSleazMar 17, 20179 votes

We are lucky he even has mana lol

Votable JesterMar 17, 20177 votes

I love how literally now means figuratively. When a word means its antonym, there has to be an issue xD

Not criticizing your post btw, just pointing that out. 20 =/= 0

AlienPrimateMar 17, 20173 votes

Well I literally see literally posted literally 3 or more times by literally everyone in literally every thread.

Naomi CoffeeGoatMar 17, 20177 votes

It really isn't. If you want to give him a significant nerf, nerf his unisolated damage. That shit does not even matter anymore. Even as a Kha'Zix main I can forget I can kind of just easily fight people without that mechanic anymore.

Or you can nerf his passive damage which now scales with AD and contributes to a huge amount of his damage now. Especially when 1 AA + Q counts for a Thunderlords proc.

Emerald FangMar 19, 20171 votes

Why would you want to nerf his UNisolated damage? His isolation is SO cancerous since you have to be piggybacking on someone else the entire game or he can just rape you for 1000 damage in less than a second.

SirLapseMar 19, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Why would you want to nerf his UNisolated damage? His isolation is SO cancerous since you have to be piggybacking on someone else the entire game or he can just rape you for 1000 damage in less than a second.

Grouping is an assassin's weakness. The people who play smart like that already invalidate his influence quite a bit, but he's always been specifically a strong solo queue pick because people ALWAYS try to be the hero and splitpush by themselves with no vision of the enemy. Kha'Zix is always as common as how many times people overextend in ranked lol.

Naomi CoffeeGoatMar 20, 20172 votes

Because it was his identity as a champion to kill any isolated champs. He was THE champ known for that. Sure the isolated damage was and to an extent still is cancerous. His clear counterplay was grouping and it hit him the hardest of all assassins before his ratios were changed to benefit fighting unisolated champs a little more. And besides, if an assassin is roaming the map and you're a squishy sitting in lane solo you 100% deserved to die. He's not really any different from other assassins in that regard, but we're only really complaining about him while he's meta.

SirLapseMar 17, 20175 votes

Kha'Zix's early sustain without blue is pretty garbage. It used to have a higher mana cost but it was toned down due to Kha'Zix struggling to clear the jungle. He also had the W healing issue where the jungle would just smash him.

Junglers that are potent right now can consistently fight the jungle, and anything not made for that will be overall slower/less effective. I'd rather they not nerf champions to force them to buy item 2032 , because that's essentially what the mana cost nerf would be doing. I'm not saying Kha is balanced 100% right now but most of his success comes from his natural predators not being as strong as him in the meta, i.e. Sejuani, Zac, and especially things like Nunu. If they were popular then you'd be seeing possible Kha buffs because they lower his impact exponentially.

DynikusMar 16, 20174 votes

this is why Kha is broken at the moment

He's not broken at the moment, though. Also if he were, that wouldn't be why. Increasing his Q mana cost would be a nerf for the sake of nerfing something, and not actually addressing anything that's problematic in his kit.

Its All SkillzzMar 16, 20172 votes

{quoted}

He's not broken at the moment, though. Also if he were, that wouldn't be why. Increasing his Q mana cost would be a nerf for the sake of nerfing something, and not actually addressing anything that's problematic in his kit.

he is one of the most banned and highest win rate junglers. next to graves/shaco.

doodlebob666Mar 16, 20173 votes

kha has about a 50% winrate right now though and adding a higher mana cost to his bread and butter ability(which has a 4 second cooldown that is partially refunded if the target is isolated) is a pretty hefty nerf

GULAG 4 UMar 17, 20172 votes

50% winrate is high?

GULAG 4 UMar 17, 20172 votes

Except if you look at statistics he isn't even that good anymore.

THE RlVER KlNGMar 17, 20172 votes

Camille Fiora Graves Quinn Jhin

The LovelessMar 17, 20172 votes

His play style is meant to be Q heavy. Same reason Ez has a low mana cost on his Q. Same for Camille's Q. Same for like two of Ryze's spell costs.

fuffychanMar 16, 20171 votes

Make it cost 100 mana if the target is not isolated, then increase the damage a little.

FriusMar 17, 20171 votes

40 mana will destroy his Q spam and destroy the champion because he doesnt buy mana like item 3025

AazzlanoMar 19, 20171 votes

Sounds great!

AazzlanoMar 17, 20171 votes

Taste Their Fear RANGE: 325 / 375 COST: 20 MANA COOLDOWN: 4 ACTIVE: Kha'Zix slashes the target enemy, dealing physical damage, increased by 50% against isolated targets. EVOLVED REAPER CLAWS: Kha'Zix gains 50 bonus range on his basic attacks and Taste Their Fear. If the target is Isolated, 45% of Taste Their Fear's cooldown is refunded (2.2 base cooldown)

Meanwhile Evelynn's Q

Hate Spike RANGE: 500 COST: 12 / 18 / 24 / 30 / 36 MANA COOLDOWN: 1.5

Double the mana cost at rank 5, AND needs to be cast over twice as often, so it's over 4x as expensive. But that's ok, because she is AP, and fuck AP champions. All hail AD champions like Kha'zix. Oh and it doesn't get any dumb isolation mechanic to make it 2.175x better like Kha does. Which makes no sense because she should want to fight isolated targets. But that's ok, she has an aoe ult which scales with the amount of targets hit.. oh wait another thing that's shit against an isolated target lmao. #allhailADchampions

Golden Tager XMar 17, 20171 votes

Urgot Q mana cost higher than both of those.

SirLapseMar 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Taste Their Fear RANGE: 325 / 375 COST: 20 MANA COOLDOWN: 4 ACTIVE: Kha'Zix slashes the target enemy, dealing physical damage, increased by 50% against isolated targets. EVOLVED REAPER CLAWS: Kha'Zix gains 50 bonus range on his basic attacks and Taste Their Fear. If the target is Isolated, 45% of Taste Their Fear's cooldown is refunded (2.2 base cooldown)

Meanwhile Evelynn's Q

Hate Spike RANGE: 500 COST: 12 / 18 / 24 / 30 / 36 MANA COOLDOWN: 1.5

Double the mana cost at rank 5, AND needs to be cast over twice as often, so it's over 4x as expensive. But that's ok, because she is AP, and fuck AP champions. All hail AD champions like Kha'zix. Oh and it doesn't get any dumb isolation mechanic to make it 2.175x better like Kha does. Which makes no sense because she should want to fight isolated targets. But that's ok, she has an aoe ult which scales with the amount of targets hit.. oh wait another thing that's shit against an isolated target lmao. #allhailADchampions

Not only is her mana cost early (when she needs it the absolute most) lower than something like Kha Q, but she's a stealth champion that can ignore your wards unlike 99% of other junglers. Shaco can copy it to an extent but he can't skip your ward and literally wait in the middle of your lane until you all-in and get smashed because what is counter-play. Not to mention that she regens mana while in stealth.

They made Red buff more vulnerable to physical damage and Blue buff more vulnerable to magic damage but the added camps really shredded the squishier APs who do not have amazingly high AoE, and this includes tanks too.

AazzlanoMar 19, 20171 votes

Ok??? What does any of that have to do with mana cost?

And you say that line about waiting in your lane as if she can really make that many proactive ganks. You have to be pretty out of position to be vulnerable (which is fine since she is permastealth) it's not like she can just come out from behind your turret and kill you like pretty much every other jungler being played right now.

Eve pays WAY too much for her stealth. It's gotten to the point where you will just get killed by most champions you try to assassinate, which like defeats the purpose of the champion. The mana cost thing is just a kick in the face as it pretty much forces you to go Runic Echoes in order to jungle successfully as you will just go OOM with any other enchantment.

SirLapseMar 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ok??? What does any of that have to do with mana cost?

And you say that line about waiting in your lane as if she can really make that many proactive ganks. You have to be pretty out of position to be vulnerable (which is fine since she is permastealth) it's not like she can just come out from behind your turret and kill you like pretty much every other jungler being played right now.

Eve pays WAY too much for her stealth. It's gotten to the point where you will just get killed by most champions you try to assassinate, which like defeats the purpose of the champion. The mana cost thing is just a kick in the face as it pretty much forces you to go Runic Echoes in order to jungle successfully as you will just go OOM with any other enchantment.

She consistently is rewarding to play at the moment if you're making smart ganks and the enemy has literally no counterplay against it. I don't know what junglers you're speaking of that tower dive and call it a normal gank, but we have none of those. Only fed champions tower dive.

What I said has everything to do with mana cost. She has a more spammable and lower CD Q than Kha, rank 5 is already WAY past the point where you've done multiple ganks and therefore have done something in the game other than farm. She doesn't need blue to regen her resources after farming either, making her transition into mid-game a lot smoother than you probably think.

I'm mostly countering your point of "AP champs are bad" because you think that mana cost is a relevant issue. It isn't. Evelynn has always been a squishy champion who gets her ass beat by the jungle and she has no in-kit sustain like Graves/Kha/Rengar or gimmicks like Elise/Shaco to have something else do the tanking.

AazzlanoMar 19, 20171 votes

What are you even talking about?

Clearly we are playing a completely different game roflmao. You also clearly don't play Evelynn and don't see her issues.

SirLapseMar 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What are you even talking about?

Clearly we are playing a completely different game roflmao. You also clearly don't play Evelynn and don't see her issues.

I don't need to play Evelynn to watch high elo do their thing and see her jungle first clear weaknesses. All this information is general and can be explained without needing to touch the champion, because other people play this game and give their 2 cents. Not to mention we as human beings have eyes to see the strengths and weaknesses.

But then again you've never played Kha'Zix, so maybe I should be invalidating your opinion over the generalizations you've brought unto him like you're attempting to do to me about Eveylnn? Or maybe I can continue to point out the clear differences in how the 2 junglers you named sustain the actual jungle on first clear and gank dynamics. I wonder which one to do...

AazzlanoMar 19, 20171 votes

What did I even say about Khazix besides factual stuff about his abilities? You're gonna invalidate facts? Are you even listening to yourself?

I don't even understand your point. You are saying her first clear is 'weak', but so what if it is? What does that matter or prove with regards to her mana costs as you rank her Q up? Also, you can give your 2 cents about anything but that doesn't mean you are correct. That's why it's your opinion. Evelynn was given a ridiculous cost on her Q which forces her to build the Rune/Runic enchantments. Or "to force her". Her passive mana regen is cool and all but it doesn't help her mana issues if she doesn't have Runic. It's similar to Lissandra's mana costs and her passive.

Anyway nothing matters because she is getting reworked anyway. Hopefully she turns out AD so she stops getting dicked and can start the dicking.

SirLapseMar 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What did I even say about Khazix besides factual stuff about his abilities? You're gonna invalidate facts? Are you even listening to yourself?

I don't even understand your point. You are saying her first clear is 'weak', but so what if it is? What does that matter or prove with regards to her mana costs as you rank her Q up? Also, you can give your 2 cents about anything but that doesn't mean you are correct. That's why it's your opinion. Evelynn was given a ridiculous cost on her Q which forces her to build the Rune/Runic enchantments. Or "to force her". Her passive mana regen is cool and all but it doesn't help her mana issues if she doesn't have Runic. It's similar to Lissandra's mana costs and her passive.

Anyway nothing matters because she is getting reworked anyway. Hopefully she turns out AD so she stops getting dicked and can start the dicking.

Your point was obviously trying to illustrate how Kha'Zix is better than Evelynn, and naturally that calls into question the "why." Mana costs are obviously not why when her first clear sustain HP-wise is garbage compared to literally every other jungler, especially when by the time you max Q the cost doesn't matter anymore. It's not really my own opinion if it's not my first time talking about Evelynn or seeing Evelynn used by someone like Dom. Your post was a complaint post nonetheless about how trash your champion is along with the generalizations of AD being stronger than AP in the jungle. Or did you forget that you posted things that aren't 100% objective?

Evelynn has historically changed her build between AD/AP over the years, the AP one being stronger this time. If Warrior gave a stronger power spike, you'd be seeing that built instead regardless of any possible mana issues.

AazzlanoMar 19, 20171 votes

When did I ever say anything about Evelynn's first clear? What in the hell? I actually love her first clear, I think it's quite nice and fast.

I never said Khazix was better than Eve, or the contrary, I just said that Eve gets shafted because she isn't an AD champion like Khazix is. Has nothing to do with the jungle, with Eve or Khazix themselves, or anything. I literally never said any of what you are claiming I'm saying.

And your last statement is just wrong. Unless Warrior is buffed like crazy, or she loses her AP ratios or her mana costs are lowered, it won't be built on Eve over Runic in most situations. The mana cost thing is not a minor thing, idk why you act like she has infinite mana past level 9 or whatever.

SirLapseMar 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

When did I ever say anything about Evelynn's first clear? What in the hell? I actually love her first clear, I think it's quite nice and fast.

I never said Khazix was better than Eve, or the contrary, I just said that Eve gets shafted because she isn't an AD champion like Khazix is. Has nothing to do with the jungle, with Eve or Khazix themselves, or anything. I literally never said any of what you are claiming I'm saying.

By default your statement says Kha'Zix is better because he isn't getting shafted. It's contradictory to say you're not claiming Kha is better even if it doesn't sound like you're saying that from your POV.

And your last statement is just wrong. Unless Warrior is buffed like crazy, or she loses her AP ratios or her mana costs are lowered, it won't be built on Eve over Runic in most situations. The mana cost thing is not a minor thing, idk why you act like she has infinite mana past level 9 or whatever.

Historically she's done it. Runic Echoes adds more burst currently so there's no reason to switch back to Warrior, but we had Runeglaive in previous iterations which was "meh" at best. Blue buff exists, so if her synergy with Warrior ever increases again then she'll go back to using it. It's sort of off-topic so whatever.

AazzlanoMar 19, 20171 votes

No point in talking to you if you are going to keep claiming I'm saying things I'm not, just because you have no point.

SirLapseMar 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No point in talking to you if you are going to keep claiming I'm saying things I'm not, just because you have no point.

You actually made the point about Eveylnn's MP costs and about isolated targets, I merely followed up with counter-arguments. If you were intending for that to be sarcastic or joking, you didn't do a very good job of it.

NaramielMar 17, 20171 votes

I really wish Riot would make up their mind about mana. All the old champions have real (high) mana costs, and virtually all of the newer ones have costs so low that they barely matter at all. Riot kind of decided they didn't like having champs run out of mana, but never rebalanced the old champions around that idea.

SeenanMar 18, 20171 votes

Sounds like Swain's bird laser attack (Q?), but does burst instead of dps.

sobi999Mar 19, 20171 votes

He comes out of invisibility and Q's you for half+ your health. If that wasn't enough, he also has an enormous non-target dive. Doesn't even need to worry about mana costs as well. Why is riot fixed on messing their own game up?

SirLapseMar 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

He comes out of invisibility and Q's you for half+ your health. If that wasn't enough, he also has an enormous non-target dive. Doesn't even need to worry about mana costs as well. Why is riot fixed on messing their own game up?

Point me to a strong jungler in this meta that's a tank and therefore invalidates Kha'Zix's existence.

Now subtract Hecarim and Warwick. How many do we have left? Answer is Zac, and Zac has weaker early presence. Ivern can probably contest him but depends on the player's influence.

Kha is only good because of the meta right now and has always been countered by people like Warwick. You don't see WW every game and you don't see Shyvana being meta, so he'll be seen often with Graves/Rengar. I don't see why people believe that he needs nerfing, because it's that other champions need buffs so he's not going uncontested.