Black cleaver is completely balanced.

Sèx Craved Eve·Jul 10, 2016·2 votes·904 views

Title.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

17 Comments

GirardJul 10, 20162 votes

It is. Just because a few bad eggs use it, you think it's unbalanced? That's... disappointing.

Sèx Craved EveJul 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It is. Just because a few bad eggs use it, you think it's unbalanced? That's... disappointing.

Darius Graves Illaoi Lucian MissFortune Riven

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Critmaster GarenJul 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Darius Illaoi Riven

belong exactly to the group of champions the thing is made for.

would even go as far saying it wouldnt be a problem on some adc, if it didnt stack with other armor pen items to the point theyre negating more than half of their opponents armor.

right now i want them to turn it into a melee only item, to prevent them nerfing it because of adc's.

Sèx Craved EveJul 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kvhqX6OE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-10T15:15:33.110+0000)

belong exactly to the group the thing is made for.

Impossible to win lane against the three of them if they know how to play their champs. Total coincidence.

Critmaster GarenJul 10, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Impossible to win lane against the three of them if they know how to play their champs. Total coincidence.

you dont have to win against darius and illaoi at the least. you just have to not get destroyed.

darius falls off against competent teams, and illaoi falls off even harder. her only strong suit right now is the lane phase. riven is difficult to say as you can only measure her strength on the really good ones.

Sèx Craved EveJul 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kvhqX6OE,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-10T15:18:40.639+0000)

you dont have to win against darius and illaoi at the least. you just dont have to egt to destroyed.

darius falls off against competent teams, and illaoi even harder. riven is difficult to say as you can only measure her strength on the really good ones.

I agree.

AlwaysByMySideJul 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kvhqX6OE,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-10T15:18:40.639+0000)

darius falls off against competent teams

Why is this myth still being perpetuated? Darius is hardly a late game hypercarry, but he isn't a win lane lose game champion anymore. He provides enough utility and damage that he scales fine into late game team fights.

Garen falls off against competent teams, as does Pantheon.

Critmaster GarenJul 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kvhqX6OE,comment-id=000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-10T18:02:19.120+0000)

Why is this myth still being perpetuated? Darius is hardly a late game hypercarry, but he isn't a win lane lose game champion anymore. He provides enough utility and damage that he scales fine into late game team fights.

Garen falls off against competent teams, as does Pantheon.

darius only doesnt fall off if his team is specifically built around him carrying. if he doesnt get a lot of support, then yea. hes pretty mediocre in teamfights.

AlwaysByMySideJul 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kvhqX6OE,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-07-10T18:03:47.808+0000)

darius only doesnt fall off if his team is specifically built around him carrying. if he doesnt get a lot of support, then yea. hes pretty mediocre in teamfights.

Really? Name another juggernaut save Skarner (who by the way isn't even a Juggernaut lol rito games) who has as much utility as Darius. Hell, I don't think most fighters have as much utility as Darius. His E, W, and generally very high damage make him a very good peeler, and a strong pick into dive comps.

GirardJul 10, 20161 votes

Half of the people you listed in your reply to me were ADCs, so it doesn't count. It falls in with the whole "bad egg" thing I said, classes and champions abusing it because it wasn't intended for them.

As for the other champions you listed ( Darius , Riven , Illaoi .) Two of them are juggernauts, so it isn't easy to take them down. Mordekaiser into Illaoi works well for me personally, but Jayce is the biggest textbook counter to Darius and Riven. They engage on you? E and continue poking them down. Don't say a lane is impossible because you don't know how to play it.

TTK DreadnoughtJul 10, 20161 votes

{quoted} Don't say a lane is impossible because you don't know how to play it.

Probably the most common thing i say.

Im an illaoi main. Last night someone got her before me. i just counterpicked with veigar. lol. However, the fed Vi didnt like that

AlwaysByMySideJul 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kvhqX6OE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-10T15:15:33.110+0000)

belong exactly to the group of champions the thing is made for.

would even go as far saying it wouldnt be a problem on some adc, if it didnt stack with other armor pen items to the point theyre negating more than half of their opponents armor.

right now i want them to turn it into a melee only item, to prevent them nerfing it because of adc's.

It's not a problem on ADCs except for maybe MF.

Critmaster GarenJul 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kvhqX6OE,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-10T18:01:02.655+0000)

It's not a problem on ADCs except for maybe MF.

lucian.

AlwaysByMySideJul 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kvhqX6OE,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-07-10T18:02:23.152+0000)

lucian.

Was nerfed, and isn't a problem anymore.

Do you not read patch notes?

Critmaster GarenJul 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kvhqX6OE,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-07-10T18:03:09.900+0000)

Was nerfed, and isn't a problem anymore.

Do you not read patch notes?

his laning got nerfed with the reduced range on his q, and his w. not his interaction with cleaver or his ability to just stack it with a load of other armor pen items.

so while he gets beat in lane now, the problem itself wasnt fixed.

AlwaysByMySideJul 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kvhqX6OE,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-10T18:06:05.771+0000)

his laning got nerfed with the reduced range on his q, and his w. not his interaction with cleaver or his ability to just stack it with a load of other armor pen items.

so while he gets beat in lane now, the problem itself wasnt fixed.

Wait, what load of other armour pen items?

Youmuu's? Because those are his only armour pen items.

And what about Graves? Most Graves players don't even get Black Cleaver, and when they do it's typically their only percentage armour pen item (or even their only armour pen item).

So which ADCs save Miss Fortune are buying BC and stacking armour pen?

AlwaysByMySideJul 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kvhqX6OE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-10T15:15:33.110+0000)

belong exactly to the group of champions the thing is made for.

Oh and by the way, who gives a shit if the item was made for these champions? That is not an argument against these champions being too strong with it (it's not, except maybe with Illaoi).