dragons should enhance minions, not champions

NodirjonSattarov·May 5, 2017·3 votes·282 views

that way super AD/AP reliant champions don't get a huge powerspike from red drake and mobile champions don't get an extra MS boost from wind drake.

my suggestion is this:

fire drake - grants minions more AD wind drake - grants minions more ms/spawn speed? ( minions walk to lane faster) mountain drake - minions either tank more tower shots OR do slightly more dmg to tower water drake - walking near minions grants them boost in morale and heals them

these are up for debate. don't fucking start complaining about shit because its just a fucking suggestion (be reasonable)

12 Comments

RalanrMay 5, 20172 votes

Yeah this would give minions waaay too much pushing power.

NodirjonSattarovMay 5, 20171 votes

so instead of stating something that may be obvious, maybe you should suggest changes

RalanrMay 5, 20171 votes

Or I could say, "No. This gives minions too much power and it would be a headache to try and make it work."

NodirjonSattarovMay 5, 20172 votes

might as well not even fucking comment

RalanrMay 5, 20171 votes

Might as well downvote and move on. I don't anymore.

Hell I rarely bother to downvote unless you just piss me off.

NodirjonSattarovMay 5, 20171 votes

that's right, fuck off if you're not even willing to contribute. anyone can say "no that sucks" and downvote. that's bronze level shit

GankedByWindowsMay 5, 20171 votes

Infernal dragon at least would absolutely break the game no matter what values you give it. Perma pushing sidewaves would be a nightmare even from one dragon onwards. All you have to do get infernal, then 5 man mid. If they don't match you, you get free turrets mid. If they do, you wait it out until your sidewaves win the game.

I don't like infernal dragon because it is a direct boost to power unlike the other dragons, but this is worse. The other dragons I think are great because they offer bonuses to a certain style of play that good players can capitalize on. Got abunch of oceans? Great, lets seige with regen. Got cloud? lets rotate and drag them around because they can't do it as fast.

NodirjonSattarovMay 5, 20171 votes

Infernal dragon at least would absolutely break the game no matter what values you give it. Perma pushing sidewaves would be a nightmare even from one dragon onwards. All you have to do get infernal, then 5 man mid. If they don't match you, you get free turrets mid. If they do, you wait it out until your sidewaves win the game.

what if u give minions AD but make them easier to clear? that way theyre easier to clear than normal, un-enhanced minions but do more damage to other minions forcing you to not leave a wave alone. perhaps a champion has to be near to give them the boost

I don't like infernal dragon because it is a direct boost to power unlike the other dragons, but this is worse. The other dragons I think are great because they offer bonuses to a certain style of play that good players can capitalize on. Got abunch of oceans? Great, lets seige with regen. Got cloud? lets rotate and drag them around because they can't do it as fast.

i think fire, mountain, and wind drake give more power to specific champions than others. i play kog'maw a ton and the only dragons i drastically benefit from is from mountain (dps on towers at max AS) and water for regen. kog'maw MS is so low that even wind drake doesn't effect it that much and i can't/don't use fire drake to the max like Draven or Jinx would.

the central idea to this is that the dragons are randomized so you don't know which will help your champion that game but with the minion idea you know that with certain drakes you're be guaranteed some sort of enhancement towards the minions

GankedByWindowsMay 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kuAdqPWF,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-05-05T16:00:13.177+0000)

what if u give minions AD but make them easier to clear? that way theyre easier to clear than normal, un-enhanced minions but do more damage to other minions forcing you to not leave a wave alone. perhaps a champion has to be near to give them the boost

Same problem still. How do you respond to a 5 man mid? You MUST play 3v5 because if you 5v5, the enemy team simply pressures and waits for winions. It doesn't really matter how easy they are to clear because you can't send someone over (to both lanes). You could nerf the value so it takes a long time for the bonus AD to become relevant, but then what. You just nerfed infernal to be the weakest dragon.

i think fire, mountain, and wind drake give more power to specific champions than others. i play kog'maw a ton and the only dragons i drastically benefit from is from mountain (dps on towers at max AS) and water for regen. kog'maw MS is so low that even wind drake doesn't effect it that much and i can't/don't use fire drake to the max like Draven or Jinx would.

His MS is low, thats why he benefits more relative to other champions from the flat boost from cloud dragon. Its a bigger % of his movespeed, and isn't being hit with diminishing returns. While the dragons do give more to certain champions, so does everything else in the game. The champions are balanced around it, so its fine. For example,. Kog'Maw benefits much more from the Natural Talent mastery than Xayah does because he uses both AD and AP, while Xayah has no AP ratios at all.

the central idea to this is that the dragons are randomized so you don't know which will help your champion that game but with the minion idea you know that with certain drakes you're be guaranteed some sort of enhancement towards the minions

I don't like the randomization myself. I would rather Riot show what dragons will spawn and in what order in champion select so you can plan around it. Its definitely something I would change. With that said, you are guaranteed enhancement with the current dragons. It isn't as much on some champions as others, but you're still getting benefits.

NodirjonSattarovMay 5, 20171 votes

Same problem still. How do you respond to a 5 man mid? You MUST play 3v5 because if you 5v5, the enemy team simply pressures and waits for winions. It doesn't really matter how easy they are to clear because you can't send someone over (to both lanes). You could nerf the value so it takes a long time for the bonus AD to become relevant, but then what. You just nerfed infernal to be the weakest dragon.

which is why i suggested sending a champion to boost the minions so side lanes wont infinitely push to towers - perhaps i'll need to think of something else.

His MS is low, thats why he benefits more relative to other champions from the flat boost from cloud dragon. Its a bigger % of his movespeed, and isn't being hit with diminishing returns. While the dragons do give more to certain champions, so does everything else in the game. The champions are balanced around it, so its fine. For example,. Kog'Maw benefits much more from the Natural Talent mastery than Xayah does because he uses both AD and AP, while Xayah has no AP ratios at all.

the difference in comparing masteries/items on certain champions is that items/masteries are set in stone and aren't randomized each game. you have control over what you choose and as a result you suffer from choosing the wrong masteries or wrong items. dragons on the other hand are randomized and give huge power spikes to certain champions (red drake for riven or veigar etc.)

I don't like the randomization myself. I would rather Riot show what dragons will spawn and in what order in champion select so you can plan around it. Its definitely something I would change. With that said, you are guaranteed enhancement with the current dragons. It isn't as much on some champions as others, but you're still getting benefits.

ya i understand the guaranteed enhancements benefiting regardless of champion but my concern is that its harder to balance drakes around 153 champions but its easier to balance it around minions ( i think )

thanks for ur input

GankedByWindowsMay 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=General KogMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kuAdqPWF,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-05T16:37:04.250+0000)

which is why i suggested sending a champion to boost the minions so side lanes wont infinitely push to towers - perhaps i'll need to think of something else.

I misread it then. Requiring a champion like Baron does kind of alleviates the problem, but also creates a new one. How strong must the buff be to be useful? by the time you're getting infernal dragons, most champions can clear through minions waves without much effort. How much does increased minions damage really matter outside of turret damage (which is Mountain's niche).

the difference in comparing masteries/items on certain champions is that items/masteries are set in stone and aren't randomized each game. you have control over what you choose and as a result you suffer from choosing the wrong masteries or wrong items. dragons on the other hand are randomized and give huge power spikes to certain champions (red drake for riven or veigar etc.)

Doesn't change the fact they benefit more from it. It might actually be more powerful because that power is reliable. Again, I hate that the dragons are random though and its definitely something I would change.

ya i understand the guaranteed enhancements benefiting regardless of champion but my concern is that its harder to balance drakes around 153 champions but its easier to balance it around minions ( i think )

Eh. Maybe? You still have 153 champions interacting with those minions.