Lets face it this rework is a failure and is facing the same kit issues of being too overpowered or too god damn weak so just make him the beast he was back then and stop ruining the game for people with all theses reworks. if you want to rework something just make a new champion.
huhndog8 votesWhat we are upset about is how riot didn't take any of his core attributes into his rework. I find that managing his blood well and the potential to all in is what made him stand out over other champions. Riot only kept his ult, which in my opinion isn't an iconic attribute because one can simply build GA and get the same results. In addition, he went from an AA champion became a caster.
This is an entirely new champ who just shares the same name of one that got deleted.
The Ecdysiast5 votesNo.Now make some suggestions for fixing his current design or stop spamming. His old design was a failure.
I keep having to explain that reworks are NOT for the people who LIKE outdated and/or failed designs like the old Aatrox. What you liked was unhealthy for the game, and specifically for Aatrox he was only ever either overpowered or underpowered. The way his kit worked meant there was no possible in-between. And it couldn't have been made to work.
We have a working version of the old Aatrox already. The only problem you guys have with it is that it goes into the role such a kit is supposed to-- jungle. Xin Zhao is what old Aatrox should've been. And that's what an AA fighter is supposed to do.
nelogis14 votesHis old design was a failure.
His "failure" of an old design created less problems the past couple years than the new Aatrox in 2 months.
Tell me again which one of these designs is a failure.
I keep having to explain that reworks are NOT for the people who LIKE outdated and/or failed designs like the old Aatrox
Oh but we managed to keep Kayle more or less intact? Or Warwick? Or Poppy?
Also that wasn't a rework, Aatrox wasn't reworked, he got deleted from the game.
Getting deleted or getting reworked are 2 different things.
he was only ever either overpowered or underpowered. The way his kit worked meant there was no possible in-between. And it couldn't have been made to work.
Yeah the new Aatrox ia s staple of healthy design and strong balance. He for sure as hell isn't either completely busted or beyond useless.
We have a working version of the Aatrox already
No we don't that is why he is getting reworked again.
The only problem you guys have with it is that it goes into the role such a kit is supposed to-- jungle. Xin Zhao is what old Aatrox should've been. And that's what an AA fighter is supposed to do.
If Xin is like Aatrox, Aatrox players would have just switched to Xin. But he isn't and the fact that you say he is tells me you never really played old Aatrox now did you?
The Ecdysiast6 votesNot really. You're forgetting the far bigger problem it caused in the two months prior to the rework. The only reason he wasn't a "problem" before that, was because the problem went the other direction-- he was too weak. As a result of his kit's core, which could only be either too much healing or too much damage, or not enough, with no room in between since it was a toggle unlike Xin's.
Because those champions had aspects that weren't themselves unhealthy. And you're just pretending that wasn't done for Aatrox. Knockup, dash, healing, revive, all still there.
The new Aatrox needs more adjusting. That's a given. You've simply made the mistake of calling that need for adjustments "problems" when in fact his kit is now more welcoming to changes besides flat number buffs, where his old kit lacked the mechanical diversity needed to give changes besides flat buffs.
That's false, and I already listed the reason. Because Xin plays in the role that a self-healing AA fighter is SUPPOSED to be in-- jungle. I'm always fine with giving the breakdown again if you need it. Their cooldowns, damage numbers, and abilities are all extremely similar. Xin is just the healthy version of that kit, in the role it's healthy to be in. Self healing is fine when you're not abusing it against a lane opponent. It's not fine when you are. That's an extremely basic concept as far as champion balance goes, and you're ignoring it entirely by saying they would've switched to Xin. They didn't, because they can't. Because he has a more balanced version of the unhealthy mechanic they liked. And it can't be cheesed the way old Aatrox could. Makes me think you didn't even look at the numbers before pretending you knew anything about their similarities.
nelogis12 votesNot really. You're forgetting the far bigger problem it caused in the two months prior to the rework. The only reason he wasn't a "problem" before that, was because the problem went the other direction-- he was too weak. As a result of his kit's core, which could only be either too much healing or too much damage, or not enough, with no room in between since it was a toggle unlike Xin's.
You mean he got strong before the rework? You you could have... I don't know... nerfed him?
Current Aatrox has caused way more problems than old Aatrox ever did or would have caused if he would be still in the game to this day.
This new Aatrox is just a completel failure of a design himself. He needs another rework.
only be either too much healing or too much damage, or not enough, with no room in between
That is practically impossible to have no room in between. If something can be too strong or too weak then there is a situation where it's just ok.
Riots neglect for the champion is the reason why it never became "ok". Same thing happened with old Galio actually, champ wasn't bad, Riot just ignored him for no reason.
Because those champions had aspects that weren't themselves unhealthy. And you're just pretending that wasn't done for Aatrox. Knockup, dash, healing, revive, all still there.
So after your logic Sylas and Riven are the exact same champs?
Half the entire champ roster has a knock up or a dash or healing
By the way they are thinking of removing the revive so there is that.
You didn't play old Aatrox because of any of these things (outside of revive) the knock up or dash wasn't Aatrox. It's like reworking GP into an enchanter support and justifying it because both versions have a heal. The hell is that logic.
You don't play GP because of the heal it's the same reason you didn't play Aatrox because of the knock up or dash.
The new Aatrox needs more adjusting. That's a given. You've simply made the mistake of calling that need for adjustments "problems" when in fact his kit is now more welcoming to changes besides flat number buffs, where his old kit lacked the mechanical diversity needed to give changes besides flat buffs.
Yeah lets make him the new Ryze where we have to rework him every 8 months because that sounds way better than giving a champ -3 AD and then hearing nothing of the guy for the next 5 years.
"Adjusting" is an understatement. You could have adjusted old Aatrox for him to be ok, you need to rework the new one so he is actually playable.
Aatrox is a mess. His entire kit revolves around Q, and the Q-Spell is the spell that makes him a mess so in other words 80% of his kit is fucked.
That's false, and I already listed the reason. Because Xin plays in the role that a self-healing AA fighter is SUPPOSED to be in-- jungle. I'm always fine with giving the breakdown again if you need it. Their cooldowns, damage numbers, and abilities are all extremely similar. Xin is just the healthy version of that kit, in the role it's healthy to be in. Self healing is fine when you're not abusing it against a lane opponent. It's not fine when you are. That's an extremely basic concept as far as champion balance goes, and you're ignoring it entirely by saying they would've switched to Xin. They didn't, because they can't. Because he has a more balanced version of the unhealthy mechanic they liked. And it can't be cheesed the way old Aatrox could. Makes me think you didn't even look at the numbers before pretending you knew anything about their similarities.
If Xin truly was like old Aatrox then Aatrox players would just play him top, doesn't matter if Xin is a jungler.
You are comparing these champs like you compared new and old Aatrox
"oh both of them have an engage spell, and a slow, some healing and a knock up so they are the same!"
No they aren't.
Does Xin have to manage an offensive or defensive side? Can he switch between taking more damage but dealing more vs switching to healing when the situation calls for it?
Does Xin have to manage a blood well where he gains AS when it's stacked and also activates you're revive? Does he have to take care to not activate the passive too early or too late for it will lose a lot of efficiency if you fuck up the timing?
Is Xin a champion that dances around death as much as old Aatrox?
Does Xin R even remotely resemble what Aatrox R did?
Xin is just the healthy version of that kit, in the role it's healthy to be in. Self healing is fine when you're not abusing it against a lane opponent
So we should rework every champ that has lane sustain, gotcha.
The Ecdysiast1 votesJust a little note beforehand, I number things instead of responding like that specifically because it makes it easier for whoever I'm talking to to see all my responses instead of having to scroll up over and over. With that out of the way, here we go:
That is exactly my point. Something as small as the introduction of a rune that was supposed to work for him broke him completely. That was the issue with his old design. Any kind of small buff made him too powerful because his kit was too simple. The very core of his kit, his W, couldn't work because by design it provided both too much lane healing and too much damage. A nerf would've just put him back in his old problem state, being too weak to be picked above literally any other AA fighter even if it meant going jungle (where AA fighters besides Jax belong).
You're incorrect in saying they neglected him. They reworked his passive. Then they removed the health cost on his W. And it still wasn't enough. They did what they could to change him given his extremely limited mechanical intricacy, and it fell short until the point where it was overpowered. As I said, there was no in-between. He is, always was, and only could be either the very top or the very bottom for an AA fighter because of his W and blood well AS. If it was too weak, which it was most of the time, every single one of them was a better option. If it was too strong, which only happened right before his rework, he was too much better an option to be fair. He either had so much more healing or so much more damage that no amount of skill could counter it, or so little that the better scaling of Yi, Jax, Udyr, Shyvanna, Xin Zhao, etc. made them all better options.
That's not my point at all. You completely twisted my words to a different topic altogether. What I was listing there were the healthy aspects of old Aatrox's kit. The parts of him that could be kept, with changes. The main point being that the unhealthy aspects, namely his W, could not remain. And with his W out of the picture, the champion needed to be entirely changed since the whole kit revolved around it. And no, changing an AA fighter into a different subclass of fighter is not even remotely close to changing a fighter into a support. That's a grossly over exaggerated claim.
You seem to not have put much thought into what I said, or what it actually means. Or the new Aatrox in general. Old Aatrox was a mess for 5 years. New Aatrox has had some issues for less than one. And what I meant was there are so many things they can adjust for the new Aatrox, compared to the old one. As an AA fighter, he couldn't be too strong early but lacked the proper scaling to be an asset late like every other option is. With his new kit, especially his new Q, they have a lot more room to make changes. They can adjust the damage not just on the entire ability but on both the sweet spot and the rest of it separately, and do that against minions too, or change the size and shape of any of the casts, or even change the size of the sweet spot, or the duration of the knockup, or the time between casts, or the damage on each cast. I'd go so far as to say there's more that can be fairly adjusted on his new Q alone than there was in his entire old kit.
Again, incorrect. I don't know why you even bothered to try to state that without looking at things I said were similar. But here's an old thread of mine where I break down exactly how similar they are. It goes FAR beyond simply surface-level descriptions like Riven and Aatrox have. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/PsNsWrkE-heres-a-radical-suggestion-why-not-swap-the-entire-kits-of-xin-zhao-and-aatrox As you can see, not only are the abilities far more similar functionally than any other champions, but the damage, costs, and cooldowns as well. I'll grant that the ultimates were drastically different, but that's something I address. The current Xin Zhao has what an "updated" Aatrox would have looked like, if Xin himself hadn't existed first. The "choose sustain or offense" aspect you're pretending was a positive is exactly what didn't work about the old Aatrox. That choice was the entire reason he couldn't be made balanced. A balanced version has both, making the trade-off simultaneously so that one, the other, or both aren't too powerful. (Nevermind the fact you're now mentioning managing the blood well, which most Aatrox mains absolutely despised since it was completely different to how it used to work. Though both versions were still bad). Granted the R's were different. But I do explain in the thread I linked that they served essentially the same purpose. In fact they serve essentially the same purpose as Jax's active on his ultimate, too-- to keep them safe while they continue to just auto-attack. While they do it in different ways, that is the purpose.
Uh... yes... that... already happened. Vladimir, Swain, and Aatrox, all got reworked. Will of the Ancients got removed. Gunblade is only a first-buy on two assassins who can't rely on it as sustain. So yeah, every champion with lane sustain gets reworked. Because lane sustain is not a healthy ability in a game where managing minions and properly timing your pokes and engages is how you display skill. When those can be rendered completely moot, there's an issue.
nelogis3 votesThat is exactly my point. Something as small as the introduction of a rune that was supposed to work for him broke him completely. That was the issue with his old design. Any kind of small buff made him too powerful because his kit was too simple. The very core of his kit, his W, couldn't work because by design it provided both too much lane healing and too much damage. A nerf would've just put him back in his old problem state, being too weak to be picked above literally any other AA fighter even if it meant going jungle (where AA fighters besides Jax belong).
The introduction of the reworked Conq literally broke 3 champs into oblivion, should we remove them from the game too?
Just because 1 guy had super synergy with a rune and became strong with it is not a reason to remove him from the game.
By that logic lets rework Riven into an artillery mage.
You're incorrect in saying they neglected him. They reworked his passive. Then they removed the health cost on his W. And it still wasn't enough. They did what they could to change him given his extremely limited mechanical intricacy, and it fell short until the point where it was overpowered. As I said, there was no in-between. He is, always was, and only could be either the very top or the very bottom for an AA fighter because of his W and blood well AS. If it was too weak, which it was most of the time, every single one of them was a better option. If it was too strong, which only happened right before his rework, he was too much better an option to be fair. He either had so much more healing or so much more damage that no amount of skill could counter it, or so little that the better scaling of Yi, Jax, Udyr, Shyvanna, Xin Zhao, etc. made them all better options.
I'm absolutely right in saying that Aatrox got ignored, the last patch where he got a meaningful change was in 7.22, from 7.22 to 8.13 there was nothing done with the champ.
The last big jump was from 5.11 to 7.5!
That is almost 2 years of not touching the champ at all!
Let me put it this way
Old Aatrox had the same amount of changes from patch 4.5 to his rework in 8.13 as the new Aatrox from the rework in 8.13 to patch 9.3 Actually old Aatrox barely had 2 changes more since his RELEASE than the new Aatrox.
You think old Aatrox wasn't ignored?
That's not my point at all. You completely twisted my words to a different topic altogether. What I was listing there were the healthy aspects of old Aatrox's kit. The parts of him that could be kept, with changes. The main point being that the unhealthy aspects, namely his W, could not remain. And with his W out of the picture, the champion needed to be entirely changed since the whole kit revolved around it. And no, changing an AA fighter into a different subclass of fighter is not even remotely close to changing a fighter into a support. That's a grossly over exaggerated claim.
You said, and I quote:
And you're just pretending that wasn't done for Aatrox. Knockup, dash, healing, revive, all still there.
This means you don't give half a rats ass that the whole gameplay of the champ changed from AA focused to spell focused. As long as the dash / heal / knockup is there it's the same champ.
So what I said wasn't exaggerated, I was following your logic 1 to 1.
The champ got completely deleted, the only thing left is the revive and they are thinking of removing that too. They didn't even have the decency to at least keep the characteristics of Aatrox alive.
You seem to not have put much thought into what I said, or what it actually means. Or the new Aatrox in general. Old Aatrox was a mess for 5 years. New Aatrox has had some issues for less than one. And what I meant was there are so many things they can adjust for the new Aatrox, compared to the old one. As an AA fighter, he couldn't be too strong early but lacked the proper scaling to be an asset late like every other option is. With his new kit, especially his new Q, they have a lot more room to make changes. They can adjust the damage not just on the entire ability but on both the sweet spot and the rest of it separately, and do that against minions too, or change the size and shape of any of the casts, or even change the size of the sweet spot, or the duration of the knockup, or the time between casts, or the damage on each cast. I'd go so far as to say there's more that can be fairly adjusted on his new Q alone than there was in his entire old kit.
And the problem is that none of that matters, they would have to rework the Q for him to be playable in SoloQ but not toxic in ProPlay. You can't fix that problem by increasing the hitbox by 10 units.
So it doesn't matter that you can change more, the change that is going to be done doesn't fix anything so it's the same as not being able to change anything.
Also by the way:
Old Aatrox was a mess for 5 years
I haven't heard a single complaint about Aatrox in those 5 years. Have been hearing a shit-ton about new Aatrox tho and it's not positive feedback.
Again, incorrect. I don't know why you even bothered to try to state that without looking at things I said were similar. But here's an old thread of mine where I break down exactly how similar they are. It goes FAR beyond simply surface-level descriptions like Riven and Aatrox have
This is the same logic again "hey both have a 3 hit passive ability so they are the same!"
Buddy no, they are not the same, playing Xin feels worlds apart compared to playing old Aatrox.
If you still think it is, reread the comment form Abandon he posted on your post, he summed it up pretty good.
Uh... yes... that... already happened. Vladimir, Swain, and Aatrox, all got reworked. Will of the Ancients got removed. Gunblade is only a first-buy on two assassins who can't rely on it as sustain. So yeah, every champion with lane sustain gets reworked. Because lane sustain is not a healthy ability in a game where managing minions and properly timing your pokes and engages is how you display skill. When those can be rendered completely moot, there's an issue.
Don't know if you noticed but Swain and Vlad still have lane sustain. Swains lane sustain got even better with the rework since he can access it early on now. And Vlads lane sustain got even better pre WoA.
Here is a list of champs with minion based / self healing lane sustain: I left out junglers on purpose
Here is a list with champion based lane sustain:
Still think it's unhealthy and needs to be removed?
The Ecdysiast1 votesI'll respond to the three most important points:
Aatrox's rework was already scheduled. It just so happened that him being massively overpowered, way moreso than anyone else, because of Conq happened right before it was finished. The two were not related.
You being deaf to complaints that Aatrox was weak doesn't mean they didn't exist. And people are more keen to complain when something is overpowered than when it's underpowered. Hardly anyone talked about him because hardly anyone played or even saw him, since he was the worst option for an AA figher.
Let me clarify. Lane sustain as a main strength was removed from the game. And that is the way it is unhealthy and was already removed. Having a little bit of sustain, sure, that's fine. It doesn't break a champion. But when one of their main strengths, or really their only strength, is being able to undo any attempts at poke, that becomes an issue. So no, none of the champions you listed have sustain as their core strength.
nelogis3 votesAatrox's
reworkdeletion
Fixed it for ya
You being deaf to complaints that Aatrox was weak doesn't mean they didn't exist. And people are more keen to complain when something is overpowered than when it's underpowered. Hardly anyone talked about him because hardly anyone played or even saw him, since he was the worst option for an AA figher
Do you think Volibear is a strong champ right now? No, he is pretty weak compared to the roster right?
Go to the Volibear mains subreddit right now and tell me how many complaints are there about the champ
Ah yeah what a surprise there are almost none.
Is Voli seen as a problematic champ by anyone else? Noupe! Does Voli create any problems for anyone or anything? Noupe!
It's just a couple thousand people that love the champ and his playstyle so they play him. They don't care if the champ isn't the best and they know it that he isn't the best.
They don't complain they are just having fun. Same with old Aatrox, nobody complained about it.
But NOW they for sure as hell are complaining, after finding out their champ is being deleted then being told that the "rework" isn't for them. The subreddit has been nothing but complaining for 8 straight months. It has gotten so bad that the new Aatrox mains had to open up a second subreddit for the champ.
You think this situation is better than just leaving Aatrox as he was?
The Aatrox rework was and still is a complete disaster
Edit: A lil fun fact, new Aatrox has about the same playrate as the old one right now
MLDzXnRRR1 votesEdit: A lil fun fact, new Aatrox has about the same playrate as the old one right now
Maybe because he is weak. When he was OP (after all the buffs), he had decent popularity. Even then he wasn't auto-win. Champions with mobility could avoid his Q and his attack speed is garbage, so he either kills you fast or dies (lacks DPS). And this champ really gets kited (maybe that's why in pro play they were rushing 
).
nelogis2 votesYes if you gave old Aatrox +200 base AD at lvl 1 his popularity would have risen too.
It means the champ is busted.
Abandon2 votesThank you.
Everything you've said, I concur 100%. I've just gotten so tired of trying to defend old Aatrox and getting massive flack and downvotes for telling my honest opinion as an Aatrox player.
Ragnaveil5 votes[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=koUKxROr,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-26T12:51:36.754+0000)
Because those champions had aspects that weren't themselves unhealthy. And you're just pretending that wasn't done for Aatrox. Knockup, dash, healing, revive, all still there.
The knockup was split and put on a minigame for no reason, he never had a dash, he had a leap, his current healing is more ass than DD's healing on AOE abilities (33% effective). The only thing that remains from his old self is the revive. Thats it. Meanwhile every other rework has kept a good chunk of iconic abilities and changed them.
The new Aatrox needs more adjusting. That's a given. You've simply made the mistake of calling that need for adjustments "problems" when in fact his kit is now more welcoming to changes besides flat number buffs, where his old kit lacked the mechanical diversity needed to give changes besides flat buffs.
More welcoming? Then why was he sent to the shadow realm? Oh thats right, his kit is super toxic for pro play that they were forced to gut him and Urgot. If anything the rework is shaping up to be a second coming of old Aatrox as it stands.
The Ecdysiast1 votesThe knockup was split and put on a minigame for no reason, he never had a dash, he had a leap, his current healing is more ass than DD's healing on AOE abilities (33% effective). The only thing that remains from his old self is the revive. Thats it. Meanwhile every other rework has kept a good chunk of iconic abilities and changed them.
More welcoming? Then why was he sent to the shadow realm? Oh thats right, his kit is super toxic for pro play that they were forced to gut him and Urgot. If anything the rework is shaping up to be a second coming of old Aatrox as it stands.
With just as little explanation, I could say, "his old knockup was put into one cast for no reason, instead of being split up." You just don't like how the new Q works. That means nothing for our discussion. You bring up an interesting point though. In this instance Aatrox's entire identity was one ability, but that one ability was also his main problem. So it needed to be scrapped, and he needed new abilities that better suited whatever they replaced it with. But other reworks did remove iconic abilities from the champions. In fact, most of them did if we exclude the small changes made during the Class Updates. Poppy's ultimate was absolutely core to her playstyle and function, but was completely replaced with something that has no resemblance to the old ability whatsoever. And she became a tank where before she was a damage-heavy diver. Soraka lost Infuse, the only ability in the game that could restore mana to an ally. Maokai lost his ultimate, which for a long time had been the most iconic and abused ultimate in pro play because of its team utility. Sion lost his point and click stun, as well as his offensive steroids. All they kept was what would be conducive to his new identity as a tank, not a fighter. Fiora lost her ultimate as well. Urgot lost his long range targeted Q, the core to his kit. As well as his stupid but iconic ultimate. Swain lost the ability to transform into a bird indefinitely. Warwick lost his AS boost, with it now being entirely limited to low-health enemies. ---So yeah. Many champions have lost iconic and core abilities when they were reworked. But, like them, Aatrox did keep what could be kept. Before I get into it, Leaps don't actually exist in League. In Smite, they differentiate between a leap and a dash by having dashes unable to get over walls while leaps can. But in League it's different from ability to ability. For all interactions, dashes that use a jumping animation are still considered dashes. So, yes, he did have a dash. That said, he does in fact still have a dash and knockup, albeit split up, as well as a ranged slow. Although they were changed in order to better suit his new kit, just like any other abilities champions kept. Sion didn't just keep his old W, it no longer scales so much with AP, doesn't last as long, and scales HP. Warwick didn't just keep his old R, it's no longer targeted. Etc., etc.
It's not his kit that was super toxic for pro play. It was his lane sustain. Literally the same problem his old kit had. And it persisted specifically because they made the mistake of trying to make it work, despite knowing that lane sustain is an unhealthy strength for a champion to have. The reason he's doing shit right now isn't because his kit needed to be gutted. It's because they made the mistake they always do wherein they nerf two things at once instead of taking the proper step of adjusting only one variable at a time. They gutted his E AND healing at the same time, when only the healing nerf was necessary. They'll fix it, because there's room to fix it.
Ragnaveil3 votesAnd what about his old kit was toxic? Because if you ask me, Trynd's kit is much more toxic. If he just RNG crits you once, you lose. and even if you take a good trade, he'll q back to full after hitting 100 fury about 2 and half times. Its even more odd is the fact Aatrox's sustain wasn't even that busted, it was people just not wanting to buy grevious wounds to save their lives. His current sustain just makes it impossible to function as the champ he should be because he's pigonholed into full damage, and yet his 3rd Q does fuck all damage if it ain't on top of someone or is, because the scaling is terribly controlled by you having to hit all 3 sweet spots. There was no need for the Edge stuff dictating the damage.
The Ecdysiast1 votesAnd what about his old kit was toxic? Because if you ask me, Trynd's kit is much more toxic. If he just RNG crits you once, you lose. and even if you take a good trade, he'll q back to full after hitting 100 fury about 2 and half times. Its even more odd is the fact Aatrox's sustain wasn't even that busted, it was people just not wanting to buy grevious wounds to save their lives. His current sustain just makes it impossible to function as the champ he should be because he's pigonholed into full damage, and yet his 3rd Q does fuck all damage if it ain't on top of someone or is, because the scaling is terribly controlled by you having to hit all 3 sweet spots. There was no need for the Edge stuff dictating the damage.
"Cyanide kills people, so carbon monoxide doesn't." Pointing out another example doesn't make old Aatrox any more healthy. And to say, "people just didn't buy grievous wounds" is completely false, because it doesn't do anything to his lane sustain. It's for long fights, where he turned on the damage instead and obliterated people with Conqueror.
His best change they could make to his old kit was >change the amount of damage or the amount of healing or both/. And that minimal flexibility is what made it a problem. It could never be as balanced as, for example, Xin's, because since it didn't apply both effects simultaneously they couldn't both be weak if they were to be useful, but when they were useful they were too strong. So leaving him weak was the better option.
For his new kit, though, even in your complaints you're pointing out things they could change. Remove the sweet spot and increase the damage, or increase the ratio that the sweet spot includes, or even call back to his old design by having it deal more damage on the sweet spot but heal more in the rest of the ability. And the list goes on. There are so many changes they could make to his new kit now that he's ability focused that they just couldn't do with his old kit.
I never ventured to say my opinion on him. But objectively, there is more for the balance team to work with than his old kit had.
Ragnaveil3 votesWith therefore also brings more issues than old had. They could have adjusted the %missing hp heal on his old W just so it wouldn't make him be able to drain tank. If they want to keep this current kit, here's what I want to happen: Q becomes two part. Q2 and Q3. Animation is sped up towards the end of the cast. No longer deals bonus damage, that then gets put back into the ratios. Q1 becomes new W without having a knockup, and instead when landing on a enemy champ slows them. E can remain at one dash, because we will only need one dash to connect Q2 with Q3. E heal is changed to % missing HP instead of how much damage he deals.
Thats all.
Demiguisee1 voteshe was only ever either overpowered or underpowered. He still had a stable 50% wr over the years.
The Ecdysiast1 votesHe still had a stable 50% wr over the years.
48-49% win rate isn't stable for a pick rate denoting only mains played him. It should have been higher, considering that fact. But because it was a kit too simple for experience to mean better play (since there weren't really mechanics to learn and practice that 200 games would help you master), even mains could only get a low performance out of him.
Jerry SeinfeId3 votesnah, revert shen first.
White Plasma 2 votesNew Aatrox is fine. Stop being so salty.
Spicy Rice10 votesI think the problem for a lot of people who like the old one, is that they took away his core gameplay. Especially in his iteration before his rework, he was extremely fun for those who enjoyed aa based drain tanks. And unlike all the other reworks, they completely took that identity away from him.
Galio is still a tanky ap caster. Warwick retained a ton of his old kit, but got it updated. GP still has a global ult, oranges, sheen procs, and gold generation.
Aatrox is the only one that feels like a completely different champ.
If you turned riven into an aa based champ who doesn't spam abilities, you'd get a similar outrage
Infernape2 votesI mean it's not like Riot hasn't said before that they don't want drain tanking champions.
With every champ they've updated, they heavily curbed their ability to do so (Warwick's passive healing is conditional for example). I doubt Riot would've been able to do it with Aatrox because of how heavily his kit relied on it.
Spicy Rice2 votesYeah, and I get that. It's and insanely hard concept to balance, and isn't really worth the trouble. I'm not trying to say they should revert Aatrox, just that people who enjoyed his playstyle feel like something is missing in league since the rework.
