About Karma's ''W'' (Focused resolved/Renewal) VS Leblanc's ''E'' (Ethereal chains)

Hochelaga··1 votes·1,929 views

So I love playing with Karma ALOT. But i'd like to see your opinions concerning her ''W''.

  • I've began rushing Rylai crystal scepter on Karma as a first item because of the potent kiting she could get against melee champions such as Udyr or Rek'sai.
  • As of right now, her ''W'' is considered a damage over time spells because of the 3 ticks that recovers her ultimate cooldown with her passive
  • The effect of Rylai's crystal scepters clearly mentions ''Dealing spell damage slows the target's movement speed by 35% for 1.5 seconds (15% for multi-target and damage-over-time spells''
  • So even if that spell is a single target spell, it gets a 15% slow movement speed.

If you compare that spell with Leblanc's ''E'' (etheral chains) because both spell are pretty similar, you can see how ''unfair'' that spell is better than Karma's focused resolved.

  • Leblanc's spell is a skillshot (950 range) spell when Karma's is a targeting spell (675 range). So basically the spell range of Karma's ''W'' is lower than Leblanc. Seems fair for a targeting spell.
  • Leblanc's etheral chains can extend up to 1000 range (that is 50 range over the base range) while Karma's W can only go up to 675 range. This is unfair! how come she can go over her limit range and have over 325 range more than Karma's W considering both have a similar effect?
  • When Leblanc hits a target, it slows him by 25% for the whole duration making it harder for the target to run away from her AND it gives her a kiting tool. Karma HAVE to stay closer AND have rylai's crystal scepter to have that kiting tool. but as you can see by the numbers, it is clearly inferior.
  • Leblanc's ''E'' stacks with Rylai crystal scepter and it slows the target by 35% while Karma's ''W'' slows the target by 15% because of the additional tick? This is unfair since both spells do a damage over a duration. Speaking of which, It takes 1,5 second to root the target for Leblanc while it takes 2 seconds for Karma to root the target.
  • Leblanc's ''E'' has 8 seconds cooldown at max level while Karma's ''W'' has 12 seconds cooldown. This is unfair.

So what am I proposing ? One or more of these :

  • Make Karma's W spell compatible with Rylai crystal scepter (the 35% slow movespeed)
  • Add an additional 50 or 75 max range for Karma's teether once she cast it on a champion
  • Reduce Karma W cooldown to 14/13/12/11/10
  • Reduce the time required to root the target by at least 0,25 second (0,5 prefered of course...)
  • The starting root duration should be more rewarding, it should be increased (1,25/1,50/1,75/2,2/2.5)

Why should the root duration be more rewarding even if this is a targeting spell? Because Karma is considered a semi-mid range mage or support. She must stay an entire 2 seconds to root the target or else, she won't root it. And when you got your mantra activated with her W, it makes it even more frustrating when you can't heal for an additional 20% missing health when you miss the last tick.

What do you guys think?

10 Comments

Tis a nice day2 votes

Let's just say there's a very good reason why Ryze and old Zilean don't have very long range on their targeted abilities.

Cindikle1 votes

Neither of them have a delay with a tether.

Leblancs Boob1 votes

I think the main reason is how oppressive it would be in the top lane. Being targeted and not being minion blocked makes it extremely easy to get free trades off on low ranged/melee targets. Not saying Karma doesn't need buffs but if she does her W is not the right place.

Hochelaga1 votes

Karma is known to be an early bully during a laning phase because she has access to all her skill by level 3. However she falls down during late game. Alot of champions can be very oppressive in a top lane. Just think of champions like Heimerdinger where no melee champion can ever get close to him.

The thing about being so aggresive towards a champion during early game makes it hard for Karma's farming AND her clear wave would be completely bad. Not to mention that it would be easy to gank her.

Saianna1 votes

They aren't really all that smilar.

LBs chain deal initial & end damage. It isn't consideret DoT. While Karma deals damages in ticks (3 times as you've said).

Karmas chain should have lil range buff. But that's about it. It's job is to trigger passive faster & support.

Even without rylai she can easily kite udyr and champions with no mobility. I've done it countles times.

BUT if that's not enough she always has shield to move faster & her Q to slow opponent.

Hochelaga1 votes

{quoted}

They aren't really all that smilar.

LBs chain deal initial & end damage. It isn't consideret DoT. While Karma deals damages in ticks (3 times as you've said).

Karmas chain should have lil range buff. But that's about it. It's job is to trigger passive faster & support.

Even without rylai she can easily kite udyr and champions with no mobility. I've done it countles times.

BUT if that's not enough she always has shield to move faster & her Q to slow opponent.

The reason why this shield + W combo with Karma is that it isnt supporting any adcs. It only boosts movementspeed for herself considering that Karma is a support/mage champion. she should have a spell that can allow her to do quicker combos considering her range abilities. She isnt like as tanky as Leona or game changing like Thresh or Morgana. She needs to get close to be effective and being close to a champion during end game is pretty dangerous.

thinking man1 votes

Nerf LB instead of buffing Karma please.

Cindikle1 votes

Only thing I'd like to see her W get is the ability to root after 1 second when it breaks.

Change it root for 0.5 seconds. Increasing up to 2 seconds for the full channel. So if it breaks early there's still a little bit of CC.

Well.... not the only thing. But as far as a change to it's current use that's all I'd change.

Ionian StarChild1 votes

What if they give Karma a slight speed boost when casting the ability? Like how it used to work before? That and maybe give her a small Tenacity buff to try get her to stay close to her target to land the snare. I feel like it would fall in line with her current theme of being a Kiting/Chasing champ and won't alter much regarding the spell. Like the other's have stated, it's already a good spell against melee champs and not to mention if you land your Q on a squishy it's a guaranteed snare if you follow up afterwards, securing a kill for your allies, unless they have some form of CC or disengage ability.

Hochelaga1 votes

But the thing is how Karma falls off during late game. Other supports all have a great ability to start off a fight. Blitzcrank and Tresh can both hook, Morgana and Lux can bind for over 2 seconds, Leona Alistar and Braum offers a great tank and cc job, Lulu and Janna are great for peeling the Adc without getting in danger.

The reason why Karma makes a good support is because of her early bursts and bullying traits. All of which falls off during late game. Other damage supports such as Annie and Zyra offers a much more better cc and damage than Karma.

Karma HAS to get near a target, making her an easy target... Similar to the old Karma where she can't start a fight or make any game changing abilities.

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