What makes a diver less durable than a juggernaut?

Hexs Fortune··9 votes·1,608 views

Divers are not as durable as the tanks or juggernauts of the world, but Divers can take their fair share of punishment while bringing enough damage to be a real kill threat if left unchecked. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

What exactly makes them less durable? They have heals, shields or defensive stat bonuses just like tanks and juggernauts and build largely the same

24 Comments

Sir Fuzzi7 votes

Generally less sustain and control, but who knows anymore? League is just trying to justify a meta based around melting everything in sight.

Chembaron Yamada7 votes

Jump with your whole team on one of these: Camille Warwick Vi Nocturne Irelia

Then do the same with her: Illaoi

I guarantee you, you will see a large difference.

TheSingularity4 votes

That and I'd pay big bucks to see a Yorick Mordekaiser Nasus DrMundo Illaoi literally dive into the back line just like a vi, noc or camille. Would be the funniest and most chaotic thing ever. As well as totally shit to deal with XD

Stars Shaper1 votes

summoner 32

TheSingularity1 votes

Hits minion...... FAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRK

THE RlVER KlNG3 votes

I mean I understand how a Darius survives longer than say, a Nocturne if he's in the middle of the team

but don't tell me you've never seen a Camille Warwick Irelia with 4000 HP, 200 of each resistance with like 200-250 AD kill the ADC in 2 seconds and then pop off and get a triple kill before dying or disengaging

Illaoi at least stands still and makes you come to her, Camille gapcloses a 1500+ unit distance and disallows you to escape with all her CC and her 4 second fuck you zone

Chembaron Yamada4 votes

Of course I have seen that. Actually did it myself often enough as lvl 7 Camille. :P I have seen adcs face tanking enemies without the need to kite just because of lifesteal, too. Yet no one would complain that adcs are too tanky.

It's called being fed. But that is not the normal situation. If Camille isn't extremely fed and your team is focusing her, she won't survive for long.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

If Darius isn't extremely fed and your team is focusing him, he won't survive for long

except Darius does not have a double dash and untargetability frames

JVP151 votes

He will survive for longer though because of his healing and tankier build though. Also, because Darius isn't very mobile, he can't dive to the back line and go 5 miles away from his team. The other team actually has to come to Darius and Darius's team in order to focus Darius. While they are so busy focusing Darius, his team (which is much closer than Camille's team) will be able to deal significant damage to the enemy team.

Paroe2 votes

@thread Mobility. The difference between a juggernaut and a diver is that the diver has mobility.

Zero Skill Tank4 votes

That's not what OP asked.

Borkahn1 votes

The fact that a Xin zhao with grevious wounds applied can be brought down fairly quickly within a second or two if focused. Meanwhile a Shen or Poppy will take 4-5 turret hits when diving and still be standing tall.

Predatorator3 votes

aren't shen or poppy vanguards

Chembaron Yamada3 votes

Wardens. Vanguards are guys like these: Zac Sejuani Malphite

Predatorator1 votes

ok i'm confused, poppy and shen both have a dash to engage, doesn't that count? i'm trying to understand

Chembaron Yamada3 votes

Wardens are tanks with the main capability to protect their allies. It is true that it is pretty hard to define a line between Vanguards and Wardens, though. For example, a Vanguard is able to protect his allies by peeling with his CC...

But Shen and Poppy have more than CC to protect. Additional to his taunt for peeling, Shen has a dodging zone to protect and his ult is granting a shield for an ally he targets. Poppy has a dash CC, but additionally she has a zone where the enemy is not able to dash (Poppy hard counters hard engages..... try to be useful as Zac if the enemy has a Poppy xD) and the ult is great disengage for her whole team.

And keep in mind how their dashes work.

Poppy has a targeted dash and is pushing an enemy away. Can be used for engage, true, but in my opinion it is more effective for peeling mostly because you are pushing the enemy away from your team.

Shen has a dash with CC, the distance is not really far and he just taunts if he dashes through enemies, which makes the effective distance even smaller.

Predatorator1 votes

thank you for clarifing =)

Randomonium1 votes

Juggernauts typically have very good forms of sustain while divers only have shields. When played correctly Juggernauts will survive much longer under focused fire than divers will.

BenParadox3 votes

Well, while juggernauts have high in combat sustain (except Garen and Shyvana, who both still have some defensive steroids), DIvers do have multiple ways of staying alive in fights (Though not as long as a Juggernaut in the same situation):

Heals: Camille, Hecarim, Irelia (R), Renekton, RekSai (Albeit only when burrowed), Warwick Health/Resistances Buffs: Renekton, MonkeyKing, XinZhao On-Hit Heals: Aatrox, Irelia, Nocturne, Warwick, XinZhao Lifesteal/Spellvamp: LeeSin Shields: Diana, JarvanIV, LeeSin, Vi Physical/Magical Shields: Camille Damage Reduction: Warwick Spell Shields: Nocturne Blocks: Pantheon Revives: Aatrox Untargetability: Camille, Pantheon (Albeit only when ulting) Invisibility/Decoys: MonkeyKing

Randomonium2 votes

All true. However, Juggernauts can survive focus fire much better than Divers. Juggernauts are known for being able to 1v2, 1v3, even 1v5. Divers can't do that.

Divers trade tankiness/sustain for increased mobility. Divers really are the "Jack of all trades" class. They are decent at everything and can be very versatile with their build paths but they aren't masters of anything.

AmazoX1 votes

Like Satomi Kun said. Jump with your entire team on any of those divers and then try with Illaoi whom is a juggernaut, The difference is huge.

AmazoX1 votes

Darius: Juggernaut Vi: Diver

Enough said, The difference is rather obvious.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

Juggernauts usually get to build an extra defensive item, as most divers get 2 offensive items then full tank, it's fairly standard for Juggernauts to go Cleaver full tank.

Myrmiron1 votes

Juggernauts deal more damage and are more tanky than divers, but divers have more mobility. This is largely due to how the individual champions scale. Diver for example usually have to build 2 or 3 damage items to deal the damage juggernauts deal with just 1 damage item. Furthermore these damage items juggernauts build usually already have some tank stats on them, while divers build items like Triforce and BOTRK who don't have that many tank stats on them when comparing them to the likes of a Black Cleaver or a Sterak's Gage. In other words, diver need to build more offensive items and thus get less tanky than juggernauts, but come with mobility. Juggernauts on the other hand usually have very good base damages on their abilities and thus only build 1 damage item, and thus become more tanky.

You may not feel like it is this way, because divers tend to rack up a lot of kills and snowball harder than juggernauts thanks to their mobility, and thus are more likely to become a force of nature (rip).

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