I thought assassins were supposed to be high risk/reward?

InSingedWeTrust·Feb 2, 2015·115 votes·7,509 views

Ungankable if he doesn't use his W to harass.
Clears entire waves with 2 spells.
Easiest last hitting in the game thanks to passive.
"Get out of jail free" reactivation on his ultimate if things go south.
Still a great splitpusher.
Extremely good map pressure.
Forces you to build against him, while he still manages to get fed because Zhonya's doesn't exist at level 6.
No real resource management.
Free bonus AD.
Melts tanks just as easily as squishies thanks to .

Where's the risk? All I see is reward.

127 Comments

Drunk RummateFeb 2, 2015138 votes

its actually very risky. you could completely lose all of your dignity for playing zed.

Malix FarwinFeb 2, 201526 votes

not to mention respect

RetillinFeb 2, 201510 votes

I have neither, so may I play him?

manbearswineFeb 2, 201540 votes

{quoted}

I have neither, so may I play him?

admitting that means you have humility,so unfortunately you cannot play zed.

To be allowed to play zed you need to truly believe the phrase "zed is perfectly balanced,just build zhonya/qss" When you can say that you honestly believe that phrase,then you can play zed.

Mad Hit MonkeyFeb 2, 201527 votes

"Balance is a fool's master." Zed

not a starburstFeb 2, 20158 votes

shots fired

TDeckFeb 2, 201513 votes

I'm a Zed player so take that how you will.

Ungankable if he doesn't use his W to harass

Ok I'm going to take Kassadin, Leblanc, Azir, Corki, Modern Ahri, Morgana(With black shield) because those are the most recent competitive picks. All of these are "ungankable" if they don't use their gap closer(or black shield) to harass. Its the result of playing safely if the Zeds that you're ganking never use their W. Watch you're favorite streamer play Zed and they will use their W to harass extremely often and its on a punishable cooldown.

Clears entire waves with 2 spells.

The Zed is extremely farmed or fed if he can clear waves with 2 spells. QE, WQ, WE. None of those combos clear an entire wave alone. Just played a custom, it doesn't happen. PS: for fun I used just abilities to clear a wave w/o a canon and I needed 4 ability casts to do it.

Easiest last hitting in the game thanks to passive.

Yep, you're right. Although the one thing I'de say is the ones close to easy CSing is ADC because they build AD and AS and they are all ranged while Zed is a melee farmer if you're talking about CSing with his passive

"Get out of jail free" reactivation on his ultimate if things go south.

Is this not also a thing with LB? Malph? Sion?

Extremely good map pressure.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. I would have assumed it meant split pushing and pressuring the other team to respond but then you mention his split pushing earlier in the post so I don't exactly have an answer for this one.

Forces you to build against him, while he still manages to get fed because Zhonya's doesn't exist at level 6

Again this is just part of the game for every champion, not just Zed. If I'm against an AP assassin I should go Athene's over Morello because it gives me MR. If I'm against malz, skarner, Zed, then I'de build QSS. If I'm a top laner going against an AP then I wouldn't go armor first. Zhonya's may not exist but you can for sure get seeker's by then, which gives a significant portion of armor in that stage of the game and is also along most AP mid's build paths anyway.

No real resource management

This one is extremely subjective. I couldn't endlessly spam Qs or WQs. The typical harass pattern is WEQ and AT MAX LEVEL it would cost you 125 energy to use that combo. If you landed both your and your shadow's Es then it would give you 40 energy back for a total of 85 energy cost IF you hit your E refund. on the other hand Zed's resource management isn't as bad as like Shen's.

Melts tanks just as easily as squishies thanks to LW, BC, Bork, Youmuu's.

Those 4 items cost 11200 gold assuming you bought 0 boots and just those items. Bjergson had an LB game on stream that he was 5/0/3 in with 250cs in 32:25 INCLUDING HIS BOOTS he had 9600 gold in items. Still coming short of the 11200 needed to buy just those 4 items you mentioned.

Zed certainly has his strengths; Hes good duelist, good splitpusher, pretty good item path, and has good escapability. But hes a melee, has extremely low kill pressure when he doesn't have ulti or its on CD, no CC, and is reliant on his skillshot Q hitting to get good kill pressure.

TL;DR: I disagree with OP with a side dish of some numbers

Stark6000Feb 2, 20156 votes

You're taking the best pieces of multiple champions and comparing them to what zed has. That in itself is enough evidence to consider him OP.

TDeckFeb 2, 20152 votes

??? I mentioned 9 champions. and 6 of those were just examples of champions with escapes. I think your logic is flawed. You may think Zed is OP and thats fine. But if your reasoning is what you stated above then you might wanna rethink?

Mecha MaIphiteFeb 2, 20155 votes

Let me spell it out for you.

Leblanc has an escape but no reliable waveclear or sustain. Most of the time you'll even need to blow abilities to cs under tower.

Adcs have an easy time last hitting. Most of them don't have good waveclear and the ones that do usually aren't very good duelists.

Garen has no resource management. But garen has nothing but a ms buff to close gaps or run away. He also can't shred tanks very well.

As for the tank melting part, I only need three items and I'm able to 1v1 most tanks and some bruisers. You know bruisers. The class that's supposed to shit on assassins.

Jax has great map pressure. He has strong splitpush and a wardhop if things get rough. But do you know what else he has? A really shitty early game with lots of mana problems. He also has no poke or waveclear.

NarasimhaFeb 2, 20159 votes

Forces you to build against him, while he still manages to get fed because Zhonya's doesn't exist at level 6.

Because people never counter build anyway. What a strange concept that would be.

Anyway, Zed has 'low risk' because of almost all assassins, he has the 'lowest reward'. Talon gets his full burst off faster. Akali still has her sustain and resets. Kat turns a kill into a penta. Kass is still the most mobile. Kha is better at picking targets off and still being useful in a fight.

Zed can kill a target and get away, aye. But without his ult, he can't do much at all except split push. And if you want to do that, might as well pick Trynd or Nasus.

SlytherinUmbreonFeb 2, 201514 votes

Eh... Being the "lowest" reward is pretty meaningless when the lowest reward is still a kill.

Malix FarwinFeb 2, 20157 votes

The risk is if the zed player sucks ROFL. Or the risk is him getting banned or the enemy picking him

TaylorGaylorFeb 2, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Ungankable if he doesn't use his W to harass.

Clears entire waves with 2 spells.

Easiest last hitting in the game thanks to passive.

"Get out of jail free" reactivation on his ultimate if things go south.

Still a great splitpusher.

Extremely good map pressure.

Forces you to build against him, while he still manages to get fed because Zhonya's doesn't exist at level 6.

No real resource management.

Free bonus AD.

Melts tanks just as easily as squishies thanks to .

Where's the risk? All I see is reward.

Risk is for mages ONLY.

ImHerVoiceFeb 2, 20152 votes

not if you play 4 flashes ahri with no skill Q buff recently.

Rinky DinkyFeb 2, 20157 votes

Oh but it was a nerf tho?

Don't you remember?

It couldn't be that everyone crying about how their precious Ahri was now Urgot tier were wrong, could they?

LciferFeb 2, 20153 votes

URGOT MENTIONED UPVOTE

Thresh Outta FuxFeb 2, 20156 votes

Fizz

Anyone? Annnnnyone?

You know, the champion with a built in Zhonyas, two mobility tools, a slow+knockup, and ignite built into his kit.

Not to mention one attack takes at least half your health even when you've got 200MR, right?

Malix FarwinFeb 2, 201513 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rentable Player,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kdHxJ9pI,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-02-02T04:47:46.006+0000)

Anyone? Annnnnyone?

You know, the champion with a built in Zhonyas, two mobility tools, a slow+knockup, and ignite built into his kit.

Not to mention one attack takes at least half your health even when you've got 200MR, right?

play Fizz into zed or any other mid laner... i dare you

Also any effect that you land on fizz before he E's still goes off such as zed's ult and ignite so no its not a built in zhonyas.

Magma Lux MidFeb 2, 20152 votes

It is if you time it right, much like Zhonya's. You use it after he ults, but before he actually puts the mark on you.

shadecrapperFeb 2, 20155 votes

But still, especially after Fizz nurf all he has is mobility unless he lands his ult. His early game is garbage. His Q does negative damage. Just because a champion can E out of death doesnt make them OP. Everyone says 2 mobility tools... those are also his damage and escapes. So if he uses them to engage he cant escape. Play fizz mid lane, I also dare you

Auz the RipperFeb 2, 20154 votes

Man, you gotta play him AD The synergy between BotRK and his W active is insane Plus his ult amps all damage fizz deals, including physical

Mecha MaIphiteFeb 2, 20156 votes

There's a risk of getting hand cramps from spamming laugh over and over again.

ForgiveColourFeb 2, 20155 votes

Are these champ high risk high reward to you? Azir Kassadin Cassiopeia Leblanc Lissandra They force you to build qss which doesn't exist at level 6

AFK PushFeb 2, 20159 votes

{quoted}

Are these champ high risk high reward to you? They force you to build qss which doesn't exist at level 6

The only assassins on this list are kassadin and leblanc, Azir, Cass, and Liss should be safer because they are mages.

Edit: btw in what world do you consider kassadin to be low risk/high reward? His early game is utter garbage. Have you ever laned as a kass against a long rage mage like azir, ziggs, or xerath? It is the definition of unfun. However, if you do get 6 without dying you can turn it around on them.

ForgiveColourFeb 2, 20151 votes

umm no kass is a lane bully if you l2p

Malix FarwinFeb 2, 201521 votes

zed main^

OblongOtterFeb 2, 201558 votes

How will QSS help against Azir and Kass? "Help I've been slowed and I can't get up."

ForgiveColourFeb 2, 20152 votes

You build merc for ad + mr too much ad to give up on banshee when ur gonna die might as well do more dmg

maikokkFeb 2, 20153 votes

item 3156

Kitten of EvilFeb 2, 201518 votes

"I've been knocked up and can't get down." (Which can't be removed by QSS)

DeusVultFeb 2, 20159 votes

How the fuck does kass or LB or Azir force you to build QSS

as far as cass goes, shes just a weird bunch of numbers on one skill that is somehow garbage and OP at the same time, but QSS, not really a must grab

The only one that would is Liss, and thats REALLY stretching it

ForgiveColourFeb 2, 20153 votes

people are really underestimating the power of mercurial.

Its an item that gives ms,ad,mr,cleanse way better than banshee if ur suppose to dmg. Banshee is meant to be a tank item. But u can choose banshee if you know you have bad positioning all game. Do you even know how much difference a teamfight can be if your adc cleanse a cc?

maikokkFeb 2, 20156 votes

item 3156

JunkοFeb 2, 20152 votes

Enjoy being cc'd to hell late game with all you have being a 100 health magic damage only shield

ChessburgerFeb 2, 20152 votes

Doesn't it have a 500 shield and also % increase of your AD the lower your health goes? So basically survive burst at 20% and destroy the attacker who's cooldowns are now down with your increased AD. I always preferred malmortius over mercurial unless I was against a click and stun ability like lissandra/annie/amumu/whatever

DigezzFeb 2, 20152 votes

its 400 (just looked it up)

LlaniteFeb 2, 201511 votes

Uh you built QSS vs Kass/Leblanc?

ForgiveColourFeb 2, 20151 votes

mercurial > banshee on dmg dealer

maikokkFeb 2, 20158 votes

try item 3156 more MR, giant shield that saves you from magic burst, more AD at low health (which you use often when its passive is up)

Redman07Feb 2, 20155 votes

the riks is, that if you cast your ultimate and find yourself in a malz ulti asap, there won´t a lot dmg...ofc not every champ is able to cancel his combo, but thats the point....Q&E are skillshots...it´s possible to dodge it every time...zhonyas counter him pretty hard later.

but i kinda agree, he doesn´t risk his life...only the oppertunity for a 1shot kill

Nameless VoiceFeb 2, 20155 votes

I always thought that assassins were supposed to be bad at farming/pushing and need to get their gold from kills.

VardenSaladFeb 3, 20154 votes

That hasn't been true since Kha Zix was released. He did goddamn everything well.

DWT12345Feb 2, 20154 votes

lol no. They are low risk, high reward. Who told you high risk high reward?

InSingedWeTrustFeb 2, 201516 votes

{quoted}

lol no. They are low risk, high reward. Who told you high risk high reward?

Riot told us. And they still hold onto it.

JunkοFeb 2, 20153 votes

When did they tell us?

For years Kassadin had huge damage with spammable low mana flashes, Talon could instantly burst anybody down and there is nothing you could do about it because of the silence, LeBlanc has 2 mobility spells that deal major damage and half her burst was targeted silence. Akali is just Akali with stupid amount of spellvamp and mobility.

There is NO way Riot would have ever said that. Hell they changed Zed from ult spawning shadow next to the target to ult spawning from where he ulted because he was TOO risky yet his reward was also huge since it was always a 100% kill.

Fizz is not FishFeb 2, 20151 votes

Yeah, 46% winrate from bronze to diamond is OP. People complain about Zed day and day. Talon failed, Dianna failed, Akali failed, Fizz failed, every assassin mid got fked. So are only ranged champs allowed to be appear in mid? Good day when Ziggs,Lux,Xerath QQQQWWWWWEEEEERRRRRR in mid.

Stars ShaperFeb 2, 20159 votes

Winrate alone doesn't mean shizzle or you guys wouldn't be whining tears of unborn children because of Yasuo.

Also, Ziggs and Xerath relies on lots skillshots to land (Xerath W is worth only in its bullseye) and be effective

Fizz is not FishFeb 2, 20152 votes

They pick Zed? Default 54% winrate.

Does not Zed Q rely on skillshot?

Lux,Ziggs,Xerath QWER when you cannot touch them if you pick some immobility champ. So this is better than a Zed exist? People like this anti-melee meta and pick Lissandra Azir Gnar Kalista and complain all melee who can fight them on lane. Again,Talon failed, Dianna failed, Akali failed, Fizz failed. The only viable melee mid is Zed.

I do NOT play Zed.But he is a balanced and healthy assassin.

Rinky DinkyFeb 2, 20154 votes

You do realize that, if someone picked, lets say Ziggs, and I picked fizz, I would completely shit on him still.

AS long as Assassins can slaughter champions like ziggs, they are viable. Why? Assassin's keep the longrange spammers in check.

That is why assassins are the bane of adc's

Zed is NOT healthy. I would also Arguekatarina is not healthy, but for a different reason.

There are literally two item's you can build against Zed, and that is zhonya's or qss. Armor and HP do not mean shit to Zed.

A good Zed will not be killed unless he fucks up. It is impossible. His kit allows him to build straight pen, get godly amounts of AD, have some of the best farming potential in the game, some of the best wave clear in the game, and some of the most mobility in the game.

The Attack Speed nerf did alot to Zed despite what the mouthbreather's say, however, His waveclear and "I am never getting ganked son" playstyle are very annoying.

As far as Katarina goes, she is stupid because she AOE assassinates your entire team, and very little can be done against her if she gets fed. You cannot cc katarina if her team cc's you.

Zed asssinates one target, leaves, and then 1v1's your bruiser while his team clears the rest of your's out.