What makes Solo lane Mordekaiser so lackluster?

Malicious Metal··17 votes·2,209 views

Greetings to yet another Mordekaiser thread, yeah we all know the drill by now. Today's topic's going to be the various reasons why Mordekaiser's Solo laning's being one of the weakest for any champion right now (Sitting at a whopping 44% win rate top and a 39% mid) It seems rather odd compared to his duo lane where he seems to be really oppressive and boasts a 56% win rate currently, making one wonder if it's the champion's fault or simply matchup dependent.

Abilities

Iron Man What once was his means to compensate his health cost and horrendous base stats is only a shadow of its former glory, which seems rather odd it being his iconic ability. It's understandable that it was nerfed though since in conjunction with his E harass Mordekaiser won every melee match by default. It used to be his most valuable dueling tool and helped him escape getting ganked by the enemy jungler by tanking both enemies and retreating to his tower.

Nowadays it fills up too slowly and decays rapidly making it sub-par compared to his older stats. Its power used to be justified with Mordekaiser having low base stats, which was a decent trade off but the current passive doesn't make up for having really low base health (1770ish), Armor (20) and movement speed (325)

>>Mordekaiser's passive used to make his laning bearable but the current iteration lacks the "UMF" to truly carry him through his weakest point. An increased Champion rate (30-40ish) and reduced minion rate (10%) should do the trick as well as chipping off some of the decay rate since it makes him want to spam even More, making him lose health and push, resulting in getting ganked and die miserably,

Mace of Spades What's utterly devastating for ANY squishy is somewhat bearable for a fighter/tank top lane but still serves as Mordekaiser's dueling tool, making him deadly when up close but needing him to pull off three consecutive attacks. It's the least problematic ability for his Solo lane and in the tanky top lane milieu it's even "fairer" than in the home of ADC's.

Harvester of Sorrow Old Mordekaiser used to being able to cast it on minions in order to poke his opponent, escape ganks by putting it on backline creeps and even farm in high-pressure lanes and unfavorable matchups. It gave him Armor and MR to balance out his weaker stats as well as feeding right into the shield with the resistances and the consistent AoE damage. The new Harvester's got a Heal, which is nice but lacks any defensive steroid in order to not make Morde utterly get crushed once he tries to go in for CS. But the biggest issue is its damage being locked in a Solo environment, making him lack Wave clear, means to fill his shield and the durability to escape ganks.

>>Morde does need his AoE damage back (Thankfully RiotRepertoir already shared his thoughts on the matter). A nice little addition would be to cast it on ANY ally, including minions and maybe even add some resistances back but nerf the heal a bit<<

Siphon of destruction The ability remains pretty much the same but with greatly reduced damage early in the game, making his wave clear a tad weaker, which isn't that bad of an idea, seeing that he doesn't like getting ganked. What irks me is it having a 72 health cost while his Q only got 32 at max rank. It used to be justified by it having 250 base damage and one minion wave being hit by it meant filling his shield to the brim but the current cost's a bit too high.

>>Lowering the cost of this spell might help his weak laning since he practically pokes himself and deals more damage to himself than the enemy in some cases. The damage was lowered so I see no harm done in it costing a bit less health<<

Children of the Grave Pretty much the same, not much to talk about besides it being countered by ONE health pot at rank one.

Early game, Mordekaiser's Bane THIS. Yes this is where the problem lies. His duo lane manages to rid him off all his early disadvantages and even makes him excel at this part of the game, getting an early lead and stomping the opposition. SoloKaiser? Not so much. He lacks ways to play safe during the laning phase as well as means to safely farm from range. His former strategy to survive getting ganked isn't viable anymore due to his weaker shield gain and lack of Movement speed. 325 Movement speed, no cc, co mobility Melee who pushes by nature just screams GANK ME! With crappy base stats, low resistances, high health costs and abysmal low MS Mordekaiser struggles through this part of the game and this is where he should be helped since his Mid game's great once he gets going and with the right build he becomes a true RaidBoss late game.

>>Tweaking some of Mordekaiser's early issues in the Solo Lanes should help him out ENORMOUSLY. He doesn't need more damage, he doesn't need more gimmicky additions. All he needs are some minor tweaks in order to help him out on his own rather than make him go back to being an utterly annoying lane bully. He needs a bit more utility in form of shield gain/MS and an unlocked W to survive unfavorable matchups and not get even more behind when trying to go in for some CS<<

To round things off here are some of my suggested changes;

Base stats; MS: 325-330/335 (Rather not overdo it though)

Iron Man; -Shield decay changed to 4% of maximum shield strength rather than 2% of base health -Drain rate against champions 30-35% (Tricky one) with a 10% effect against minions

Harvester of Sorrow; -Now deals the damage even when the shrouds don't touch -Castable on ANY ally -Movement speed boost changed to 50 from 75 -Added 10/20/30/40 MR/Armor at levels 1/6/11/16

Siphon of destruction; -Health cost: 24/29/34/39/44

This should help his Solo lane while not directly influencing his duo lane since it's more of a shift (Base MS buff and nerf to W active MS) as well as giving him a fallback pattern in tough matchups while not making him the bane of top lane like patch 5.17 Darius^^

~M.M

http://media.giphy.com/media/U3eEd6WVH8HHq/giphy.gif

29 Comments

Magic Mo2 votes

The dipole moment of a point charge is equal to its charge dotted by the distance covered by it.

Mordepool2 votes

Resistances on W might be to much. The W dmg is a must 50% duration solo 100% when cast on ally.

Increased via champion shield less on minions is a good idea

Just remember how that effects a duo lane. Help the balance team 30% = 60% botlane from 1 e with that ratio they could keep the decay as is. But we need a better decay rate for solo morde

If we get Dmg on W back that means Reliable shield gain from W and E. Which could be enough to build a shield in solo lane

If not they can change champion/ minion ratios. 20%/15% respectively would be a good start

Thats my 2 cents

Edit: always here to bounce ideas MM Mmmmmm M&M's

kagepaladin2 votes

Why can't we just have morde back in solo lane i wonder if his bot lane win rate is so high because the few people who play him bot normally win. I seriously want to see statistics on which is played more bot-lane or top-lane.

Malicious Metal1 votes

Well, the damage from Harvester of Sorrow isn't THAT great to begin with so I see little reason not to give him its full potential. It's currently sitting at 300 damage over 4 seconds when maxed with a 170 damage detonation. Coupled with a 1.2 AP ratio it even outshines his old Creeping death in damage (having been 468 damage XD) Besides, he lost a lot of AoE so giving him the full damage will return his wave clear, albeit less instant with the loss of some E damage and the Q AoE.

20% minion conversion and 75% champion is utterly insane! His old self only had 17.5% against minions, which already made him be quite unhealthy as a bully. I'd like to keep it around 10-15% not to fall back to his roots and make him get nerfed once more for it. A high Champion ratio isn't as problematic though since he should rely more on his shield gain to survive team fights^^

Thank's for your two cents, have some M&M's

Mordepool1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kWa98B9N,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-09-26T08:27:38.726+0000)

Well, the damage from Harvester of Sorrow isn't THAT great to begin with so I see little reason not to give him its full potential. It's currently sitting at 300 damage over 4 seconds when maxed with a 170 damage detonation. Coupled with a 1.2 AP ratio it even outshines his old Creeping death in damage (having been 468 damage XD) Besides, he lost a lot of AoE so giving him the full damage will return his wave clear, albeit less instant with the loss of some E damage and the Q AoE.

20% minion conversion and 75% champion is utterly insane! His old self only had 17.5% against minions, which already made him be quite unhealthy as a bully. I'd like to keep it around 10-15% not to fall back to his roots and make him get nerfed once more for it. A high Champion ratio isn't as problematic though since he should rely more on his shield gain to survive team fights^^

Thank's for your two cents, have some M&M's

Thats 20% champion 15% minion. And honestly I wasn't really sure about minion % also the 75% was a typo

Mmmmmm peanut butter m&ms

Mordepool2 votes

My perspective on his Movement speed. Where is the trade off duo vs solo? Double dmg for good positioning gone now. MS buff / Passive. Is the only thing left to duo Morde let him keep it.

I'd rather be tanky and slow. Which leaves 2 options

1: change E shield ratio on Champions to 20% with less shield gain vs minions (Charges more still decays fast )

2: Buff his decay rate (Which allows you to continue to build more assuming you play well )

Both impact botlane but early game solo morde needs reliable shield

Malicious Metal1 votes

Well, how about he gets the full Speed buff if he casts the Harvester on an Ally Champion but only half if he uses it on any minion?

1; I wouldn't go as far as to increase the maximum shield gain but rather see a buff to his passive ratio. His E was always a problematic aspect (sadly T_T) and should be handled with care or else we'd see the return of the horror that was Bully Morde. He should be able to bully, yes, but with more risk attacked to it and windows in which he can be fought. Prior he could just simply E a minion wave, hit the enemy champ and get a full shield out of it.

Mordepool1 votes

Ya return of all shield all day morde is not something i deem healthy or want. It seems now that at early levels his shield drains so fast.

If they increased the minimum shield % to say 40% at lvl 1 with a decay rate 1-2% lvl1-6 and3-4% per lvl down to 20%.

So you get more min shield% when your shield is smaller but as it grows the min shield % drops

Baron Von Bangin1 votes

Edit/Delete: Phone sucks

Summonerrr 12 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kWa98B9N,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-25T21:49:25.922+0000)

wall of text I didn't read.

~M.M

http://media.giphy.com/media/U3eEd6WVH8HHq/giphy.gif

He's lackluster because ON THE WHOLE, Riot doesn't listen to the community before they change champions anymore -.-

The whole "Riot knows best" thing is really starting to piss a lot of people off...

kagepaladin1 votes

Don't get me wrong i love the old mordekaiser but i have not had alot of the solo lane issues you are having, yea i've had some unfavorable matches like wukong. but i faced an olaf and heimeringer before and won both of those lanes. i have been palying mordekaiser for five years so alot of knowledge of how to play him just gets adapted to his new kit and boom good ol (almsot) insane morde is back.

Malicious Metal1 votes

Not saying I'm not having success with him, ou contraire. If you're able to stall out difficult matchups you can roll late game with your damage/durability and get back into the game BUT the moment you face ONE difficult matchup laning phase's pretty much over since you won't be able to get in range to farm and proceed to get even more behind. Also, getting ganked usually ends up to be fatal for good ol' Morde, which is his biggest issue solo at the moment.

Tl;DR; Mordekaiser Solo needs fallback patterns in order to pull through difficult matchups and farm safely/escape ganks or else he'l proceed to be dominated. He should have his counters but nowadays it's tooo stark a contrast between favorable and unfavorable matchups.

~M.M

Blade of Justic1 votes

I really start to hate this community when they'll praise the Sion rework for being "A roaring success" even though, they basically deleted him and made a new champ all together. But, then they'll go into an uproar when a solo laner gets put into a duo lane.

Tails Doll5 votes

Well. Sion is an incredible champion, and it's probably because it's an all new champion, pretty much nothing from the old Sion still remains, and the new Sion is a well made champion. Unlike champions like Karma,Cass, Mord that try to keep the identity and the playstyle and update it a little, meaning you can easily spot every differecne in power.

Faded Lich1 votes

Every time someone says they didn't "keep Cass's Identity" an intelligent child drowns itself out of shame for the human race.

Tails Doll1 votes

They didnt. They just kept her E spaming "identity". She was also a very powerfull DoT mage, that is not more. Because they nerfed her DoT dmg simple as that.

Faded Lich1 votes

See my thread on why you are wrong. Because this is wrong

Tails Doll1 votes

Not gonna waste my time on that. You always max E. There is no reason not to max E. Q dmg is lower, W dmg is lower. You are not a DoT mage. You can build like it, but is not the best build.

Faded Lich1 votes

Your ignorance and lack of education is completely your choice, but FYI: E was always the higher damage and better max back then too. You only ever leveled Q back then because it could one shot the back wave of minions and made farming a lot easier, allowing you to speed farm, push and roam.

But you know, unlike most of you people bitching I actually mained cass back in the day and know what the fuck I am talking about while you people with your rose glasses keep trying to ruin a good champ. So fuck off.

Tails Doll1 votes

Yeah I can tell you played Cass before...

Maxing Q was an effective way to harras and zone out opponents. Maxing E was for kill potential. Most of her power was on her E, that's true, but now ALL her power is on E. But what ever, there is a reason her rework did jack shit to her, but keep posting bullshit.

Mordepool2 votes

Why are you surprised its Mordekaiser adc just needed something new to bitch about hence angry posts from them.

And then there is the Mordekaiser playerbase who felt Betrayed. Hence angry posts.

Only people who liked the rework were people who never heard of Morde before Who got to pubstomp angry ADC's

Never played Sion much sry for your loss

Baron Von Bangin1 votes

Old Sion was an undead monster created by an old champion of Noxus to be an unstoppable force to continue fighting after death for his city state as top/mid laner that replied on a point and click stun to unload the rest of his kit.

New Sion is an undead monster created by an old champion of Noxus to be an unstoppable force to continue fighting after death for his city state as a top laner/jungler that replies on a skillshot slow to unload the rest of his kit.

New Sions has a kit that fits the theme of an unstoppable and unholy force raised back from the dead. Old Sion stared at your butt and then hit you with his shield like some weird burst mage. His AD build was NEVER viable for as long as he existed unless he was pub-stomping newbs and making it to super-late game.

Morde got no major rework or overhaul. He went from a scrappy mid/top lane fighter to a bot lane, kit gimped one trick pony. People don't like change just because they don't like change. They don't like change that makes no sense. Morde could have been made into the big hulking suit of armor he was meant to be. Making wide swings of his massive mace to knock people around his unholy death magic to sap enemy strength. Instead he get to hit them with three wonky looking auto attacks and crumbles is anyone even looks at him funny.

The whole rework came down to Riot wanting to experiment with a new type of duo-lane. But instead of doing it with a whole new champion, they decided it'd be quicker and easier to sacrifice Morde for the little experiment.

Blade of Justic1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron Von Bangin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kWa98B9N,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2015-09-26T04:16:41.133+0000)

-snip-

Someone wasn't playing AD Crit Sion.

LITERALLY UNSTOPPABLE

The new one just runs fast and gets laughed at while he's in his passive. (which is just... awful)

Also, if Sion was sacrificed in order to make yet another CC tank Alistar Blitzcrank Amumu Galio Gnar Gragas Hecarim Leona Malphite Maokai Nautilus Rammus Skarner etc., then I think it only fair for Morde to be sacrificed to make something completely new.

With that being said, I loved playing old Morde mid as much as old Sion in the jungle.

And, while I like neither of these reworks, it will never stop amazing me how much people can defend one rework that destroyed the previous identity of a champ (Melee ADC that turned late game nightmare into CC Tank that goes fast) while simultaneously claiming that having a lane buddy (and having a grossly generous win rate) destroys the identity of another.

Baron Von Bangin1 votes

AD crit Sion was garbage. There's a reason why Sion basically didn't exist as a champ. There's a reason people ignored half his kit just to build him ap.

If you can't see the differences between how the Sion rework was handled and the Morde rework was handled you're purposefully being ignorant for the sake of continuing an argument.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Fun fact: If any1 decides to leave the fight, Mordekaiser can't do anything about it. I faced a Rumble that could just walk away from me (not using his flight) without any mobility item while I had item 1001 and item 3044.

I must say he does decently against other tanky dudes. I had a fairly easy laning against a Jax and that Rumble wasn't able to farm well and I could push him out of lane (getting away at 10% hp always because I can't chase, the moment any1 decides to move away Mordekaiser does 0 damage). But get an assa/fighter and you are done, no chance to to fight back nor to escape, you are basically a tanky minion.

Malicious Metal1 votes

Yeah, you can fight Mordekaiser on YOUR terms, never on his since he can't force you to fight him. Heck, the sole reason why SoloKaiser's weak and Duo's dominating stems from this issue.

Stars Shaper1 votes

It's always about how much enemies are stupid and in denial.

Phil Fly1 votes

Just give up on Mordekaiser, dude, go play Karthus or something. Watching you make 20 of these threads a day is like watching a chicken run around after you've cut its head.

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