Why is it acceptable for mages/bruiser to instagib but not assassins?

it be lìke that·Nov 7, 2016·4 votes·546 views

I was playing and camping the enemy fairly hard, he started raging in all chat about me 1 shotting him, but to do it, i would land everything in my kit fairly well + . Unloading everything in under a second to kill, i could see it as annoying yes, but think of everything i had to land, flash out of my w and rip, you shouldnt be roaming solo with a fed-ish talon.

However, it's become acceptable for bruisers to just massacre you while being incredibly tanky.

or certain burst mages doing insane amounts of damage output from ranged nonetheless.

why did these become acceptable but assassins have developed an unpleasant stigma?

13 Comments

Chamuel85Nov 7, 20163 votes

Darius Irelia Illaoi Olaf I don't see these champions 'insta gibbing' anyone unless they're 20-0 and at 6 items when everyone is just finishing their second.

Syndra Orianna Anivia all have very telegraphed combos from longer range and skill shots.

Also most of the champions you listed severely lack the mobility of assassins. Irelia is a different story, but her secondary role is Slayer.

it be lìke thatNov 7, 20161 votes

mages have incredible utility, that not only allows them to instagib but do so remarkably safely. an assassin is lucky if their utility allows them to escape before if they can even get the kill.

olaf literally runs people down right now. illaoi you just cant fight as melee or 1v1 really.

darius takes 1 press of every button he has plus an auto (sounds like an assassin rotation to me) to 100-0 you

DrCyanideNov 7, 20161 votes

It still comes down to how it feels to play against said champion. If you feel like you had no opportunity to react, no way to position better, etc, then that champion feels worse to play against.

In Talon's case, about the only warning you get are two blades sticking out of the fog of war before he's on top of you and you're dead. What could Draven possibly do while you're stealthed and charging him? His only hope is that he can use Stand Aside before you kill him and high tail it out of there.

Contrast that to what options he has against Syndra. He can see her stacking orbs, he can keep himself out of the skillshots path/range, he can cleanse the stun, etc. There is more warning and more reactions available.

it be lìke thatNov 7, 20161 votes

you mentioned positioning better then left it out of the equation. adcs who roam away with no protection have forfeited their lives. thats how the game SHOULD be, you have opted to be a glass cannon who needs protection??

why on earth should he have some of the highest damage in the game and high solo survivability?

DrCyanideNov 7, 20161 votes

Who says an ADC has to roam solo to be destroyed by an assassin's burst? An ADC can be positioned right next to the rest of the team and still instantly die, particularly if that assassin has a stealth mechanic (all be it with the Assassin trading their life in that scenario, but that's still a win for the assassin's team).

why on earth should he have some of the highest damage in the game and high solo survivability?

I don't like the combination of life steal, attack speed, and crit that exists in many ADC builds, but that's another discussion for another post.

PermabannedGarenNov 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Who says an ADC has to roam solo to be destroyed by an assassin's burst? An ADC can be positioned right next to the rest of the team and still instantly die

Give them a shield, use exhaust, hit the assassin with CC, etc.

The only stealth champion who does not telegraph that they are stealthed in any meaningful way is, funnily enough, Twitch, an ADC.

Chamuel85Nov 7, 20161 votes

I don't think I can count Olaf '100-0' you if you are just running at them and whacking them over 3-5 seconds until they die. It's not like he can Q, E, AA and you're dead. I've never seen that against a squishy anyway unless Olaf is just gigantically ahead and the ADC disconnected and is 6 levels behind everyone else.

Darius 'execution' window on you is pretty long then. His Q has an almost entire second windup before it happens (this alone omits him from instant gibbing someone). Let alone most darius won't do that since Q, W, AA will only be 3 stacks of hemorrage which leaves out a lot of damage on his ult. It's a lot of damage to be sure, but he is a juggernaut. They do a lot of damage over a time, but there is a metric ton of stuff you can do to counter play it due to Juggernauts lack of mobility tools in general (Shyvana ult being an exception, but riot usually uses ults to make exceptions)

Same for Illaoi... but just because you cannot 1v1 her does not mean that she 'instantly blows you up'. The best bet I can see for that is maybe her ult or if she has like 3 tentacles around you and she W you... but then again, I don't blame the fountain tower for killing me. I just stood in a silly spot.

As for mages, they're bursty that is for sure and fairly close to assassins except that usually there is a lot you can do to respond to it.

it be lìke thatNov 7, 20161 votes

take everything out of the equation of "you can do x" because the same applies to assassins.

you can always position better, if its 25+ and you are solo roaming as a squishy, thats a positioning error, you should know the assassin is coming.

from a damage output standpoint, all those bruisers/mages are on par. "you can see it coming" isnt much of an excuse. should the assassin arch type just be removed entirely? because if they cant even 100-0 the carries that are supposed to be protected, which is all they are really good for, since majority of assassins have a garbage team fight, whats the point in them being around?

olaf actually has ridiculous burst damage at early to midgame. more so than 80% of assassins. not to mention his ult is better than a good chunk of assassins engage/disengage.

PermabannedGarenNov 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't see these champions 'insta gibbing' anyone unless they're 20-0 and at 6 items when everyone is just finishing their second.

all have very telegraphed combos from longer range and skill shots.

Also most of the champions you listed severely lack the mobility of assassins. Irelia is a different story, but her secondary role is Slayer.

Illaoi can certainly 100-0 an ADC in a very short time frame if enough people are hit by her ult.

Irelia 100-0's ADCs the moment she finishes triforce, and she has just as little counterplay as Talon. It takes her longer to kill people than it takes Talon, but she's faster at it than Zed. However, because she can't effectively itemize for full damage her burst damage does fall off, relatively speaking.

Yeah dude, just dodge Anivia putting a slow field on top of you and point and clicking your health bar away. Thankfully her stupid burst with her E on just a slow is being lowered. Now she actually has to hit the stun to get the double damage.

Syndra can miss most of her combo and then kill you with her ult, purely by virtue of how many balls are on the field.

A Syndra with full build and Elixir has 742.5 AP. A single seven ball ult with this amount of AP does 1,260 + 1,039 damage. With void staff, sorcerer's shoes, and the pen within her masteries and runes, an enemy ADC with no MR beyond the flat MR blues they likely have would effectively have less than zero MR.

Yeah, she's dealing true damage to them. More than true damage actually, since negative DR actually increases the damage you take.

So she can actually miss all of her abilities late game, but as long as seven balls are on the field she can legitimately one-shot an enemy squishy.

That much damage is loaded onto a point and click ability.

N PelosiNov 7, 20163 votes

Because assassins do it with 0 counterplay. Your Talon example, you just clicked to teleport on top of him, mashed all your keys and boom he falls over dead in about 1 second or less. The only way to mess that up is to be a potato and rake backwards or something.

Mages actually have to aim, and people get a chance to dodge or do something about it before they die. There are certainly some outliers, but the class as a whole isn't like that. Assassins are.

CatastropNov 7, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=N Pelosi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kVgwERW8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-07T19:25:19.045+0000)

The only way to mess that up is to be a potato and rake backwards or something.

Lmao, I'm having flashbacks to when I did this.

GarthBrooksXDNov 7, 20161 votes

You actually have the opportunity to dodge a skill shot vs Syndra Orianna Anivia . Whereas Leblanc is toxic as fuck because she can traverse about half the map to snap you with no chance for counter play(or if you magically hit her she'll go invisible xD), then blink back to safety. The primary reason give for the assassin rework is that people will feel outplayed if they get killed by assassins while still giving the assassins the tools to be assassins but not toxic Leblanc Leblanc Leblanc assassins.

Wînter FoxNov 7, 20161 votes

When Talon is changed to have 0 mobility, 0 stealth, 0 escapes, and has to slowly skip over to me and yell "TIBBERZZZZZ!!!" as he does his burst - then I'll be okay with it.