So quite some time ago this system was a thing but I didnt really get why you wouldnt implement it? Unlike many other solutions for the problems League has, this seems pretty hard to abuse.
http://i.imgur.com/nwVbJh8.jpg
Id like to know a good reason to not implement this, or at least let people try it on the pbe for a while because it seems to solve some problems?
Edit: Rip the dream :[
RiotSlumber Jack81 votesLet me ask some different questions, because perhaps people 'abusing' it might not be the only way to think of it.
For players on the losing/outnumbered team, how will they perceive teams that choose to not show them mercy?
For winning teams, are we creating an expectation or a feeling that unless they show mercy that they're not as good of players as those who would have?
EDIT: Gotta get back to work, but I saw this thread and wanted to facilitate a bit of discussion. We appreciate the desire you guys have to help make things better!
OhthePiplup52 votesIf a losing team doesn't get mercy it was likely they weren't acting "nice" all game (for lack of a better word, even if that does sound rude). I would 100% give mercy when they are saying things like, "Nice play" "sorry for the afk" "gg" or nothing. If i saw a team being d1cks all game, saying stuff like "lol lucker noob" "nice R there" "gg ez only won cause of afk" i will not grant mercy.
And yes i will feel bad if only one or two of the enemy team is nice, but the other two are assholes. But i can honor the nice ones (not like it does anything). But i dont tolerate people who ruin other peoples days. I can get mad while playing league, but 99% of the time i keep it to my skype call with my friends, saying stuff like "Damn i hate fizz" "F*** I died"
People who intentionally ruin other peoples days, mainly the afk, but also the people who ruin our days. Don't deserve to act that way. I didnt wish for an afk on your team, why do you have to wish that me, or god forbid people like my family, to get cancer. Thank you for listening. But this system has no real downsides.
If your afraid of change you will never get anywhere.
Nahara7 votes[{quoted}](name=Such is Fate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kP8aybX9,comment-id=000c0001,timestamp=2015-09-02T22:17:40.758+0000)
And yes i will feel bad if only one or two of the enemy team is nice, but the other two are assholes. But i can honor the nice ones (not like it does anything).
Maybe a way of solving this would be to grant the mercy not to the whole team, but allow the winning team to grant mercies to individual players on the losing team.
Or perhaps granting a mercy to the opposing team could be something done on the post-game screen; if you win and the enemy team had an AFK, on the post-game screen you get a prompt that someone went AFK and you have a chance to grant people a mercy for the loss.
illusydara3 votes[{quoted}](name=Such is Fate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kP8aybX9,comment-id=000c0001,timestamp=2015-09-02T22:17:40.758+0000)
But i can honor the nice ones (not like it does anything).
I wouldn't say it does nothing. My honor points mean more to me than any other statistic. =)
Keevalroy3 votesIt's a question of morals, and because you're voting as a group there's a peer pressure element to it. That could mean that where someone may be apathetic to the 3v5 victory, they could indirectly feel sorry for the other team and vote 'Yes' on the mercy vote when others have voted yes as well. Alternatively if you have someone who's been all chatting for the entire game flaming like a forest fire at the enemy team, why would they want to give mercy to someone like that. Is it unfair for the other team members? Absolutely, but now everyone is against that one person - and there's the peer pressure element. It encourages healthy interaction and to avoid player toxicity.
As it stands, League is a toxic environment in terms of community interaction within all ranks of all games. When you get the option to choose whether or not a team is punished for having an unfair disadvantage such as a 3v5 or even a 4v5, it may alleviate some of the negativity. The key word there is "may" since it certainly wont clear up everything where every game is sunshine and rainbow-farting unicorns, but it might make people consider their actions more if they have to make a choice or are the deciding factor in a decision.
Sportsmanship is something to consider, and while the peer pressure could also tie into people voting 'No' quickly just because others did it, we'll probably just have to accept that some people are assholes and will want to ruin games for everyone. But with the Tribunal coming back (maybe?) those people can be sorted out from the rest of us.
Penns4 votesWell, you could ask them after the game. Not getting granted mercy even tho you did good might suck, but eventually you will in some games and its better than getting nothing at all.
And why would voting for it make you feel like a better player? If the enemy team was nice/ still did good in the game despite being outnumbered, you show them mercy. If you think they dont deserve it, you dont.
RiotSlumber Jack12 votesPerhaps showing mercy wouldn't make you feel better because there are situations where you feel it's the expectation (if you think they deserve it). Perhaps the only situation is to make you feel worse if you don't: do I lose the game, or do others think less of me because I personally held a belief that they didn't deserve it?
Everyone will have different reasons for why they think they should/shouldn't give it. You can see them in this thread: Do you simply think they should? Why was someone afk? Was it from the start? Was someone on the enemy team a jerk at any point? Am I sacrificing my first win of the day (this could probably be mitigated)?
EDIT: derped on it's
Demonsolder212 votesWhat?!
Why mercy. Trolls and afks are a way of this game. By now most of us have grown to deal with it. Shit happens yeah. But still im all about my LP. Im not gonna throw LP or my promos away. Esp if its a free win. And I would be damned if my fellow team mates grant the enemy team mercy when we could have won that game.
Look bottom line here is. most of us ranked players like winning. We need the Lp. Or we need the series. Or for the promos. Or whatever. We should not implement this system cause it will be abused.
I mean imagine after weeks of busting ur ass to get to plat or gold or whatever. Ur in that promos right this is ur final game. U just need this win to get to the next tier. I mean this is it you worked for this it took you a shit load of frustration and now ur here just one win. However the enemy team screams in all chat. Its 5v3 please mercy and ur teammates are like okie herp derp. And just like that weeks of progress lost. What could been a easy and free win was snatched from you. And now you get angry you lose it. You cant believe a easy win why. And just like that you get tilted really hard. You start losing and you fall. You fall back to where you started.
This system it wont solve anything at all. Maybe for normals or tb or aram then yeah but not in ranked.
Xonra4 votesWhat?!
Why mercy. Trolls and afks are a way of this game. By now most of us have grown to deal with it. Shit happens yeah. But still im all about my LP. Im not gonna throw LP or my promos away. Esp if its a free win. And I would be damned if my fellow team mates grant the enemy team mercy when we could have won that game.
Look bottom line here is. most of us ranked players like winning. We need the Lp. Or we need the series. Or for the promos. Or whatever. We should not implement this system cause it will be abused.
I mean imagine after weeks of busting ur ass to get to plat or gold or whatever. Ur in that promos right this is ur final game. U just need this win to get to the next tier. I mean this is it you worked for this it took you a shit load of frustration and now ur here just one win. However the enemy team screams in all chat. Its 5v3 please mercy and ur teammates are like okie herp derp. And just like that weeks of progress lost. What could been a easy and free win was snatched from you. And now you get angry you lose it. You cant believe a easy win why. And just like that you get tilted really hard. You start losing and you fall. You fall back to where you started.
This system it wont solve anything at all. Maybe for normals or tb or aram then yeah but not in ranked.
This is where the divide happens and why I understand where the questions from Riot's side arise.
I personally find this kind of scummy to just smeh at someone and be happy you got a free win you didn't deserve because it wasn't a fair matchup. I'm of the opinion you shouldn't even get a win if someone never connected. You are however of the opinion of "meh deal with it" because you get a free win you didn't have to play for.
They are very different opinions and we would likely be able to argue the point for hours, but this is where the issue is for Riot, because there are two very differing opinions on this matter.
Demonsolder211 votesDo you not play ranked??
Do you not understand how hard it is to climb? Do you not understand how frustrating the climb really is?
In ranked why would you not take a free win?? I dont know about you but i care about LP I care about climbing. Call me scummy or whatever i dont care. At the end of the day results is what matter. Progress is what I care about.
Xonra7 votesDo you not play ranked??
Do you not understand how hard it is to climb? Do you not understand how frustrating the climb really is?
In ranked why would you not take a free win?? I dont know about you but i care about LP I care about climbing. Call me scummy or whatever i dont care. At the end of the day results is what matter. Progress is what I care about.
If I win I want to have played the game out and won, not just because I was "lucky" enough for someone on the enemy team not to have entered the game. That is a pretty cheap win, and I never want to win that way.
I care plenty about climbing and winning, but I want to win because I won, not because the other team was at a numbers disadvantage. The attitude of "winning is all that matters" isn't the bad part, it is not giving a crap about the fact you didn't earn it, while spouting some nonsense about not wanting the other team to not be punished because they "didn't deserve a win", that I find scummy.
You are okay with getting a free win because you are winning, despite doing nothing to deserve it. You aren't okay with basically calling the game a wash because the enemy team doesn't deserve it. Hypocrite much? That's the part I find scummy, not the fact that you want to win. It's the fact you are hypocritical, and okay with it, only because it benefits you.
Demonsolder211 votesThis is how this game works. A free win is a free win. Who am I to deny it.
Again progress is progress. Results is all that matters in the end. You say I didnt earn it. But I did who are you to deny someone who worked their ass off to get to where they are it. Hundreds upon hundreds of games to get to where I am at you think I dont deserve it?
Sure those games suck but in the end what can you do? I want to win. Im sure if the roles were reversed you would do the same.
In ranked you take advantage of whatever weakness you can see. You seize that weakness and you capitalize off of it. This is what a competitive player would do. Anyone who would otherwise not is stupid.
Twiggles13 votesYou say that anyone who wouldn't take the easy way out is stupid? I don't often talk down to people on these boards, but you are acting like a goddamn 6 year old child.
And I know what you're thinking. "Moral high ground, white knight, goody two shoes, blah blah blah." But you know what? Like the person discussing this with you, I would prefer to climb fairly. Not just because of dumb luck and lousy internet service.
You say results are all that matters in the end. What the hell kind of attitude is that? You are literally saying that the ends justify the means as long as you don't have to work any harder than absolutely necessary. That is no kind of attitude to take into the real world, and I'm positive that you'll find more unhappiness in your life if you do.
It's not all about the results. It's about the journey too. You have a terrible attitude, and I really hope you grow out of it sooner rather than later. You didn't earn a win via afk. If you've been through 'hundreds upon hundreds of games' to get where you are, then I'm sure another 3-5 shouldn't be that big of a deal.
tl, dr: Grow up and really EARN your wins. All of them. Not just taking the ones that are convenient.
Minuano2 votes[{quoted}](name=Slumber Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kP8aybX9,comment-id=000c00090000,timestamp=2015-09-02T22:49:46.666+0000)
Perhaps showing mercy wouldn't make you feel better because there are situations where you feel it's the expectation (if you think they deserve it). Perhaps the only situation is to make you feel worse if you don't: do I lose the game, or do others think less of me because I personally held a belief that they didn't deserve it?
My two cents: It probably wouldn't make them feel worse, assuming they don't lose LP if they are granted mercy. Let's be honest here, it's a really shitty feeling to lose a game because one person was trolling and went afk or disconnected. It's probably the worst feeling you can have in League. I think that at the very least, if a team shows mercy, it eases some of the pain of losing LP for such an unfair reason.
KirynDawn2 votes[{quoted}](name=Slumber Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kP8aybX9,comment-id=000c00090000,timestamp=2015-09-02T22:49:46.666+0000)
Perhaps showing mercy wouldn't make you feel better because there are situations where you feel it's the expectation (if you think they deserve it). Perhaps the only situation is to make you feel worse if you don't: do I lose the game, or do others think less of me because I personally held a belief that they didn't deserve it?
Everyone will have different reasons for why they think they should/shouldn't give it. You can see them in this thread: Do you simply think they should? Why was someone afk? Was it from the start? Was someone on the enemy team a jerk at any point? Am I sacrificing my first win of the day (this could probably be mitigated)?
EDIT: derped on it's
I don't fully understand why you are arguing this. Are you actually defending the people that leave ranked games right now?
You ask what happens if the other team doesn't show mercy. My answer is go play a game of league of legends and figure it out!? This happens everyday 50% of the time?? There is no other option BUT to be and only be merciless!!
You literally have nothing to lose for trying this method so why not just do it?
warpenguin5551 votes[{quoted}](name=Slumber Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kP8aybX9,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2015-09-02T22:09:00.316+0000)
Let me ask some different questions, because perhaps people 'abusing' it might not be the way to think of it.
For players on the losing/outnumbered team, how will they perceive teams that choose to not show them mercy?
For winning teams, are we creating an expectation or a feeling that unless they show mercy that they're not as good of players as those who have?
Thoughts?
they would probably see them as A-holes, but tbh i cant see the refusal happening alot
RiotSlumber Jack13 votesHappening a lot would be a possibility. After just having someone leave their game, could that further hurt a player's general perception of the community when many of these players who deny mercy might otherwise be perfectly well-behaved and fun to play with?
EDIT: Let me re-frame this. Would we be giving outnumbered players a reason to feel differently about those on the other team when they otherwise would have been ok with them? That, perhaps, not only are they unlucky for having a leaver in their game but also unlucky for getting matched against people who chose to not grant mercy?
Mafia LeBlanc6 votes[{quoted}](name=Slumber Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kP8aybX9,comment-id=000c000a0000,timestamp=2015-09-02T23:02:28.708+0000)
Happening a lot would be a possibility. After just having someone leave their game, could that further hurt a player's general perception of the community when many of these players who deny mercy might otherwise be perfectly well-behaved and fun to play with?
To be honest, nothing gives a worse representation of the community than someone crying in pregame that they didn't get the role they wanted so they quit or feed on purpose, then everyone on that person's team gets a loss for no fault of their own. It's really unfair and the fact everyone then has to play a 4v5 for a minimum of 20 minutes, or risk an auto-ban for the AFK Detector, it just all adds up to a crappy experience.
If something like this happens, and yet the enemy doesn't grant mercy, I won't hold it against the other team, I'll hold it against the moron who left and cost me a loss/LP because the leaver is the reason that we were in that situation. I've been in games where it happened to the other team - they all played their best, no one cried in allchat, but they just had a dick in pregame leave because of something stupid, and if mercy was allowed, I'd definitely grant it to these teams.
Even if the mercy system isn't implemented, something needs to be done so one person can't completely ruin everyone's time and 4 people's LP because someone peed in their Cheerios that morning.
Penns3 votesImplying everyone would vote 100% honest and fair, this system would work but since you cant expect that it sadly probably doesnt make a lot of sense and would make some people more biased about the community.
But at least having a automatic system that makes the outnumbered team lose less/ no points only if someone was not connected for 15+ minutes of the game would maybe help the overall environment and game expierience tho that can be abused of course...
RottedApples15 votesallow mercy votes to succeed at 3/2 unlike surrender. I think in this case it would help since mercy is extremely hard to abuse in the first place. It would mean that the majority of the enemy team is rude/whatever for not granting mercy so a person who isn't granted mercy is justified in thinking that.
Try to avoid insult to injury while still maintaining democracy.
Another possible idea would be to grant partial mercy for each mercy vote up to the cap which could be 4/1 or 3/2 or something. Then people would know that at least someone was trying to be nice.
I generally say gg sry for afk at the end of a game when i see this stuff anyway so i'll probably be that guy who votes for mercy in most of the cases i see it.
The Ecdysiast3 votesForce the mercy, then. If someone leaves at all, don't count the loss.
Plus, it's not an expectation or feeling. If you won a game because it was 4v5 and choose not to grant mercy, you simply have a negative attitude.
RiotSlumber Jack6 votesOK, so I lied: perhaps we should still be making sure to keep abusable situations in mind :P
That being said, can you think of ways players could break the system if it were a given that a loss wouldn't be counted? Can you create a situation where it couldn't be abused?
Malix Farwin7 votes[{quoted}](name=Slumber Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kP8aybX9,comment-id=000c000c0000,timestamp=2015-09-03T00:13:20.732+0000)
OK, so I lied: perhaps we should still be making sure to keep abusable situations in mind :P
That being said, can you think of ways players could break the system if it were a given that a loss wouldn't be counted? Can you create a situation where it couldn't be abused?
Easily, severely punish those who leave the game causing the imbalance by docking a hefty ip loss and requiring them to do x normal games(not as much as a chat ban but maybe 3-4) till they can requeue for rank.
lB2kGRlc8y4 votesThis would discourage 5 man groups from having one person commit harakiri for the good of the team, as it would set everyone behind in the process.
ima firin2 votesThis entire system seems to breed hate and toxicity, not only for the fact that flaming your teammates into leaving simply to get mercy, to the fact that teams that do not grant mercy will be hated. It will lead to an expectation of mercy that when not granted will only lead to even more toxicity, in game and on the boards
RiotSlumber Jack4 votesI don't think the idea in its entirety encourages toxicity; it's brought up because we as a community want to help each other out. Perhaps we just need a different approach in how to make people in unwinnable (?) situations feel less shitty other than lowering how often it happens (which we've been quite successful in doing so far).
Positioning King2 votesWith respect to "Perhaps we just need a different approach":
I don't have the data to back it up, and this may just be confirmation bias talking, but it seems like a vast majority of 4v5s that I see in mid-Plat solo queue are caused by people being unable to connect to game server after champ select and never appearing, rather than ragequitting. Personally speaking, of the 2-3 ranked games that I have ruined with my AFKness, I was frantically trying to reset my router and whatever other voodoo magic would let me connect after getting through champ select. I didn't feel good about it and I can't imagine the other 9 players did either.
It seems to me that this situation shouldn't be unsolvable -- are you familiar with the DOTA 2 system where if someone fails to connect by the minute mark or so, the game is dropped? One huge difference there is that draft happens on the game server, and so if you just ported that directly over to League you end up with the ability to avoid a game after a terrible draft, but it's something worth pursuing.
Another leaving mechanic DOTA 2 has is that after a player has disconnected for ~5 minutes I think, while the game will still count as a loss for the losing team, anyone else is free to leave without a leaver penalty. This is something I'm pretty happy about -- it's really frustrating to be stuck in an unwinnable situation that you have to play out until the 20 minute mark.
I realize these fall firmly out of the realm of Player Behavior; sorry about that.
Thegreatxiu5 votesWhat if instead of making it a post-game thing you make it an in-game vote. So like Surrender vote you can create a mercy vote and that the mercy vote would basically just be an offering of ending the game immediately. Like one person starts the vote in game just like surrendering and if x amount of players on your team approve then it gets given to the enemy team to vote on. I personally think having 4/1 to offer the mercy and then 3/2 to accept the mercy would be best. This way mercy could apply to having trolls as well as afks and would help make mercy not feel obligatory the same way surrendering at 20 for a game that is essentially lost to trolls/afks isn't obligatory.
EDIT: You could also make it timed like only offerable in the first 20 min or something like that.
Crowe Stalker4 votesI think a Mercy System should be implemented at the End-Screen rather than make an Alternative Surrender, because this punishes players who Surrender in a game where the enemy refuses to vote for Mercy in the first place. It may also be prudent to make Mercy an individual vote rather than a Teamwide effect (perhaps with an option to vote for the whole team, but there should definitely be a way to offer individual players Mercy)
We've all had that game where we go 20/6 (or better) and then end up feeling bad because the rest of our team was like, 4/10 or in particular (in my experience) Bot Lane's going -20 or more.
Mercy should be more than just 'Oh, someone left, let's pretend this never happened!' but also 'wow, I feel really bad because this player played exceptionally well, and in no way deserves this loss' in my opinion, at least (Especially for Promotionals)
RiotSlumber Jack13 votesHmm. Well, we're working on improving the way honour (and in this case, 'Honorable Opponent') works, so perhaps it's just a matter of making this button the obvious use case in these situations (and of course, to make it feel more rewarding -- we're working on it). Interesting.
The Sword Saint3 votesMaybe it would mess with the lp system too much, but something like 'receiving x amount of enemy/ally honors on a lost game reduces lost lp by a proportional amount / makes a promotional loss not count against you'. It would incentivize people to put their best attitude forward even in losing games since if their teamates or enemies liked them they would take less/no loss. You might need to limit players to honoring one all and one enemy per match though for something like that, or maybe prevent premades from honering each other.
Penns3 votesIt would be cool to see honors actually do something :p
RottedApples7 voteshonor* you british scum.
jk ily and british people.
RiotSlumber Jack16 votesIt's more than just the British who spell things not-differently ;)
MrWasjig4 votesHonour* You lazy yankee!
(Much love <3)
The Ecdysiast2 votesProblem here is foing 20/6 doesn't mean you took objectives or helped the team. It could mean you just stole kills, preventing the ones who do take structures from having the items to do so.
Mimy16 votesEvery bronze player gonna be like "Nope" Anyways. xD
Archon X7 votesBecause then people will abuse their teammates into afking in order to try to get mercy.
Kãtãrinã24 votes[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kP8aybX9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-02T19:02:45.626+0000)
Because then people will abuse their teammates into afking in order to try to get mercy.
then they get reported for abusing you as you mute them. Problem solved
Penns20 votesHow exactly can you force someone to afk/ dc? And since all chat exists, someone can just tell the enemy team that one guy is getting raged at so even IF that guy ends up leaving, they wont vote for mercy anyway.
Ariel the Cruel5 votesAnd since all chat exists, someone can just tell the enemy team that one guy is getting raged on
Yes. That traditionally works really well, I notice.
Ratbert3 votesIf only nobody lied. Someone could spite their team by claiming to be harrassed, and then afk.
TeemoJenkins6 votesI think it'd be worth a try for at least a patch, Lyte can then study the numbers and see if Verbal Abuse reports have an uptick, if not it's a carrot to help the afk games.
Edit: That being said - does this grant mercy to all players EXCEPT the AFK? If it gives them mercy also... I see that being abused.
Penns3 votesThe picture says that the guy who left will automatically be reported and I suppose he will lose LP too.
HayRoss5 votesWell, what if the other team doesn't want mercy? What if they will fight as long as they stand 
?
