Fizz gives up a 370+% AP scaling combo to build full AD/tank with his meta build

Penns·Apr 24, 2017·70 votes·4,651 views

Meanwhile before the rework "tank" Fizz was basically dead because of the nerfs to Fervor and his W. Now he was played like 6-7 times or so since his rework as mid laner in pro play (NA and EU lcs, LCK.. and everything else), and how often as top laner? According to http://lol.gamepedia.com/Fizz_-_The_Tidal_Trickster/Match_History over 50 times just this month.

That should tell you something about the success of the rework... just saying.

93 Comments

LankPantsApr 24, 201754 votes

Fizz will always be a cancerous champion, AP or tank as long as he keeps his E.

ThilmerApr 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Fizz will always be a cancerous champion, AP or tank as long as he keeps his E.

That moment half the players want to nerf Zhonyas active, but Fizz has the same active in a normal skill and nobody notice it. XD

EnloctApr 24, 20173 votes

What? Zhonyas is widely acknowledged as a crap-tier item only useful on abuse cases like Swain or Vladimir . The active is the only thing it has going for it. That, and the literal lack of an alternative AP/Armor item.

ThilmerApr 24, 20172 votes

{quoted}

What? Zhonyas is widely acknowledged as a crap-tier item only useful on abuse cases like or . The active is the only thing it has going for it. That, and the literal lack of an alternative AP/Armor item.

I still see people complaining about "Zhonya is too OP" on a daily basis.

I play lot of mages and haven't build Zhonya since season 5; shitty stat and the active is not worth the gold.

General Esdeath Apr 24, 20177 votes

This is literally the Fizz cycle

Strong pick
Nerfed
Adapts
Nerfed again
Becomes garbage unless you main him
People complain when he becomes meta again via off-role items
Strong pick

UnvictusApr 24, 20178 votes

The damage amp on his ult doesn't help anything either, if anything that encourages tank builds and auto attack based builds. Hits R and then autos you to death without having to build ap. It's just laughable that they thought they could solve fizzes problems in the assassin class update, and he wasn't even one of the bigger reworks. He is in definite need of a full gameplay update. There is so much wrong with his kit and it constantly goes through a toxic cycle of being overpowered, getting nerfed, finding a new build and being overpowered again.

PennsApr 24, 201717 votes

The damage amp on his ult was removed in like season 5 or 6 tho :o

And if he gets a rework, chances are his E will stay, or he would at least get something similar. Its balanced on glass cannon Fizz and its not nearly as ridiculous and toxic as an instant point and click high range root that can last 2 seconds and basically instakills you late game.

NineTailedMysticApr 24, 20172 votes

Wait, the fish fuck stole Ahri's damage amp, and didn't even bother to keep it? What the fuck.

PennsApr 24, 20172 votes

I blame rito feelsbadman. It actually wasnt removed until 6.22 tho

Velzard of KozApr 24, 20172 votes

and its not nearly as ridiculous and toxic as an instant point and click high range root that can last 2 seconds and basically instakills you late game.

At this point I will rather take that. Because If Ryze is hard-CC'd after doing so he has smaller chance to survive and run away as most of the MS buff will go away and he has no dash. I can't say the same about Fizz. Very likely will survive initial burst, E away (even if he has just used it as it has at 40%CDR main ability cooldown while being utility and we're talking lategame here) and might as well abuse nearby neutral enemy or enemy minion to Q away but even then unless you have equally toxic reliable CC he will get E soon making chasing him so annoying considering you'd need a lot of members of team to do so.

Then either let go other members of enemy team just to shut down this little fishy shit or let him go to do something more rational, making him quite ridiculously safe considering he's supposed to have some risk as an Assasin.

It's such a hell to play against it that whenever you combine enough conditions such as some ridiculous CC-chain and he hasn't built properly yet and you have fed burst and he has done mistake and you delete him quickly before he does something, I feel orgasm and feel like thanking my whole family in front of cameras for such lifetime achievement.

Like I realize half of that is just the feel of annoyance rather than it being imbalanced, but that fishy shit is walking tilt.

MissingKayoApr 24, 20172 votes

Wow it's almost like one is a ranged AoE burst mage with CC that has to trade mobility for that, and the other is a melee single-target burst assassin who trades the AoE, range, and CC (only hard CC is on ult) for the mobility.

Fizz E is 6 seconds at rank 5 with 40% CDR. There's something wrong on your part if you're not punishing him after he uses E.

Velzard of KozApr 24, 20174 votes

What's your point exactly? I wasn't the first one to bring up the comparsion, I just voiced my opinion that I'd rather take Ryze as he seems to me more easy to punish.

The whole "mah melee is weakness" is quite stupid excuse when on champion with heavy mobility to delete any range advantage on enemy's part possible. Which is also why normal advantage of melee is in raw defensivity which Fizz shouldn't have AFAIR, as he's melee with easy option to gapclose. So I wouldn't say lack of CC is trade-off for melee and mob.
Ryze. AoE burster. Yes, as long as you give him enough time totally ignoring him to somehow spread his tatoos on entire team which should take around up to 4 - 6 seconds (up to 3 sec maybe lategame if he's lucky), while during all of this all your team members are close to each other like if they were on some pride. In case that renders Ryze AoE burster then what is Fizz with his ult and E both being AoE lol.
You claim Ryze has CC. Because he has one root. That's it. One root. Then you claim Fizz trades away CC. While he has slow and knock up/knock-away. Not to mentoin you claim Ryze trades away mobility while he has MS buff... Ryze's problem is that he is somehow both Burst Mage and Battle Mage rendering him quite retarded mix, which is exactly why Ryze HAS slight mobility (compared to immobile mages), as Battle Mages usually do.

Fizz E is 6 seconds at rank 5 with 40% CDR. There's something wrong on your part if you're not punishing him after he uses E.

If he's mobile enough to dodge most skillshots, which he is, then you face small issue - most such CC utility spells have higher CD than his jump-a-troll. Also I clearly said that you try to punish him (CC and burst him down) initially, but in case he survives that (which isn't problem with little bit of Health), he can escape IMHO more easily than Ryze. That was the entire point. Didn't say it's impossible to react to that.

PennsApr 24, 20174 votes

If he "just used E" its not gonna be up for 6 seconds even with 40% cdr. If he fucks it up he can survive the initial burst, which he wont, and still die, probably even with Zhonyas active.

Fizz is probably the highest risk assassin in the game since he doesnt have any range to farm and poke with unlike pretty much every other assassin and he has no defense other than using his mobility right (and his passive but... that blocks maybe 4 damage xd).

Sure it can be annoying to play against him, even I find it annoying sometimes but.. its just that, annoying. I still shit on him, if I dont do it by playing well I just use my Exhaust and Negatron/Hexdrinker lol.

Velzard of KozApr 24, 20171 votes

Sure it can be annoying to play against him, even I find it annoying sometimes but.. its just that, annoying.

Yeah pretty much.

Akali also doesn't have that strong poke since unprocc'd Q doesn't deal good damage and it's more worth to proc it because of Energy early, but gotta admit she can manage poke more easily once she gets shround and has for the best all abilities.

PennsApr 24, 20172 votes

Well Akali can still farm with her Q from range tho. Its not that good poke but its something.

NymzoApr 24, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Fizz will always be a cancerous champion, AP or tank as long as he keeps his E.

This, just... this.

This is like Ryze w all over again, they change everything EXCEPT the only thing that is a big issue.

Troll for TrumpApr 24, 20172 votes

WIth Ryze, he's supposed to be using it to counter high-mobility champs like Yas or Lee, to make up for his own lack of mobility. It punishes low mobility champs too hard, though.

NymzoApr 24, 20172 votes

The problem is that also both his old incarnations and the current ryze also have movement speed buffs in their kit.

Both old Ryze had a movement speed buff when using their ult.

And current Ryze hasone in one of his combos spells.

So yea...

Hexs FortuneApr 24, 201722 votes

fizz doesn't build a single AP item, yet still gets an insanely high damage all in with ult

DuskDaUmbreonApr 24, 20176 votes

So avoid it, or force him to point-blank it…?

Meep ManApr 24, 201731 votes

"Just dodge it"

DuskDaUmbreonApr 24, 201717 votes

Basically. It's like being hit by Morgana 's Q and wondering why ~~you've gotten leave buster~~ you can't move.

morris1Apr 24, 201722 votes

And here comes the "dodge skillshot 9 times, get hit once and you lose the game" syndrome.

MissingKayoApr 24, 20175 votes

Ahri You Alistar were Amumu saying Blitzcrank something Nidalee about Lux a Thresh lethal Yasuo skillshot Zac eh?

EnloctApr 26, 20171 votes

Alistar ????!

DragonSheaApr 24, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chicken Dynasty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dlgtRKjY,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2017-04-24T15:17:07.911+0000)

"Just dodge it"

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kvS6zMThiZU/hqdefault.jpg

Piccolo: DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not xPekeApr 24, 20173 votes

that's just as stupid of a suggestion as when people say "just kite".

Yeah GJ sherlock if it was that easy there would be no melee champions viable in the game if all you gotta do is "just kite bro". LMAO.

JedenVojakApr 24, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Not Xpeke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dlgtRKjY,comment-id=000600000004,timestamp=2017-04-24T17:29:04.258+0000)

Yeah GJ sherlock if it was that easy there would be no melee champions viable in the game if all you gotta do is "just kite bro". LMAO.

It kinda is that way though. Melee champions all generally have either some kind of dash or CC, the most successful ones have both, and the ones that have neither tend to have a lot of problems in the viability department.

Not xPekeApr 24, 20173 votes

no because the game isn't all about 1v1's and the melee vs range. It's a team game where your own team can set you up.

"just kite garen, its easy". Yeah so easy when they have a lulu/zilean/karma speeding them up and slowing you. Plus everyone else around you, other CC coming.

Giving advice like "just dodge it" or "just kite" is lazy and ignorant. If it were that easy no skill shot champions would be played nor melee champions in high elo because everyone is good enough to "dodge" or "kite".

So no, it's not kinda that way at all.

TranozeApr 24, 201716 votes

NO, not because his AP scale is shit, but AP items are shit. Like even he build straight damage as suggestion item 3100 item 3152 item 3020 item 3157 item 3001 item 3089
He has like 300 AP total, and up to 600 after So 370% AP scale with 300 is just like 1110 magic damage for his bonus AP. Back to the old days when AP champ can actually get 600 AP mid game, 370% is a big number. Now, it just a tickle compare to ADC, assume mid game they have around 300 AD and deal like 370% of it per second. Meanwhile it too easy to build magic resist as any champion right now, especially ADC.

SteelflameApr 24, 20175 votes

This is what I've been saying for quite a while, they fucked up AP items by forcing all the power into additional ratios on item actives. It has absolutely face-fucked AP balance, because now practically every AP champ has access to 50% of the same kit, so all you are doing is picking which champion works best as a "vector" of that 50% of a kit. Originally a champion had 3, MAYBE 4 AP ratios. Maybe. Now? Hell, 8+ is quite plausible, with 8 active abilities and 3 passives to boot. And balance is being distorted by this, because so much power has been shifted into actives.

ForgiveColourApr 24, 20174 votes

"Ap items are shit"

"They need more ap"

LOOOOOOOOLLLL flat mpen is broken as well dude and ap was taken away for a reason and they still one shot squishy and chunks your team in one rotation

Cosmic WarperApr 24, 20172 votes

{quoted}

"Ap items are shit"

"They need more ap"

LOOOOOOOOLLLL flat mpen is broken as well dude and ap was taken away for a reason and they still one shot squishy and chunks your team in one rotation

Flat mpen is not broken lmao. There's much less flat mpen available than there was armor pen before the lethality changes. You have to get sorc boots and liandries to have all the flat mpen in the game available. That's nothing.
Everyone who didn't get scaling mr is getting scaling mr next patch, so flat mpen past mid game will be much less effective.

ForgiveColourApr 24, 20171 votes

"something isnt broken because its going to be nerfed soon"

nice logic

Cosmic WarperApr 24, 20177 votes

{quoted}

"something isnt broken because its going to be nerfed soon"

nice logic

no. "something isn't broken because it hasn't been broken ever and will get worse next patch." Flat mpen has never been complained about or considered broken. Sorc shoes and liandry's mpen haven't been changed since near inception. You're trying to create a problem that doesn't exist.

ForgiveColourApr 24, 20171 votes

you mean its never complained about by gameplay board where it thinks prenerf rylais was a fair item LUL nice1 so you actually trust gameplay board for game balance

Cosmic WarperApr 24, 20174 votes

{quoted}

you mean its never complained about by gameplay board where it thinks prenerf rylais was a fair item LUL nice1 so you actually trust gameplay board for game balance

No. It was never complained about by pros, boards, reddit... anyone really. Mpen is not a broken stat. Stop trying so hard to find a reason to complain

ForgiveColourApr 24, 20171 votes

nice im wrong because you didnt check your facts gud1

Cosmic WarperApr 24, 20175 votes

{quoted}

nice im wrong because you didnt check your facts gud1

And those facts are?

NineTailedMysticApr 24, 20173 votes

AP Itemization is garbage, dude. They slaughtered AP values in favor of "CDR EVERYWHERE WEEEEEEEEEEE". Any item that actually has an interesting active or effect has garbage stats or a garbage build path (like Protobelt and GLP respectively). MPen is very strong, that's why there's only three items in the game that give it where two sources of it are unique and cannot stack and the other is your boots slot, severely inhibiting an APs boots choice. Not to mention Liandry's/Guise are almost never bought outside of a couple champs.

APs are still effective because guess what? They're still hitting the weaker defensive stat and have utility outside of their damage. Buff MR, and in turn buff AP items.

TranozeApr 25, 20172 votes

So it ok for ADC to Jhin shoot you without landing any ability at all but Mages land one rotation of combo shouldn't be able to kill ADC at all? Nice logic. Remember the mage update, the Nerf AP items and buff Base damage from almost all mages. That why some of them go support now since they doesnt need build damage to deal damage. And they still deal damage, no doubt, but half of their damage are coming from their base damage.

greekvandaLApr 24, 201713 votes

Shaco

PennsApr 24, 201713 votes

Join the item 3078 master race LUL

greekvandaLApr 24, 20175 votes

he did patches ago. saw a shaco one trick last night cancer trinity into bruiser items. snatched some lp first game. he got shit on the second one still annoying af tho.