The Difference Between Level 6 & 10 As Azir

Elite4Runner··1 votes·450 views

I just made a post about this in a more subtle way, by offering how I feel this issue could be solved, but I didn't originally explain the issue well enough. By not doing so, I already got a few downvotes and negative comments, which is probably enough to throw that post into oblivion. So I'll try this approach instead.


The Situation

I'm not going to talk about Azir's base stats by level (aside from Sand Soldier damage by level), his items, runes, masteries, buffs, debuffs, team comp, matchups, .. any of that.

As the title suggests this comes down to the difference between Azir at level 6 and at level 10 in regards to the way you rank his abilities and the utility they offer you at different points of play. As in with Sand Soldiers vs without them.

At level 1 you MUST place your first rank in his W 100% of the time. At level 6 you will most likely place your first rank into his R. By this point you have invested 4 other points among his Q, W, & E.

For the sake of this situation, lets assume you have invested all 4 of these points in his Q & E, in any combination.

The game continues for 4 more levels and you continue to invest these new points into his Q & E, in any combination.


The Problem

Some of you already see where I am going with this.

When you have no Sand Soldiers on the field or in range, the difference in utility you have available to you between these two points are virtually ZERO.

Even after placing a Sand Soldier on the field, all you gain is 12 BASE DAMAGE to the Sand Soldier's attack based on your level. (Again, not taking into account AP)

YOU MIGHT AS WELL BE LEVEL 6!!


MY SOLUTION

I'm sure there could be several different ways to solve this problem, but I had an idea that may help.

Before I offer my idea, I want to be sure that you understand. Even if you don't like my solution, at least acknowledge that this is a problem.

Add active, or passive effects to Q and/or E that are only available when there are no Sand Soldiers within range to activate them in their current form.

In my last post about this, I offered two examples of what I think would be good abilities, but I am not going to do that this time. If you want to see what I suggested, feel free to look at my Board Profile.

Also, I absolutely understand that this would potentially be a buff to Azir, and the only way for this to work would involve nerfs to the currently strong aspects of his kit. Interestingly enough, Riot is already looking into doing this from what I have heard. One of the rumors going around is that they are planning on lowering his Q range and making him into more of a battle mage. To me, this suggests that he will need to be less offensive and more defensive. This suggestion could be one way of adding more defense to his kit. With his Sand Soldiers out of range he would be in a defensive state, and with them up he would be more offensive. I think it makes sense.

11 Comments

Zielmann2 votes

Doesn't pretty much every champion have a tradeoff to choose from whenever they level a spell? Why should Azir be any different?

And for what it's worth, it looks like Azir tends to max Q first and W second, so at levels 8 and 10 you're leveling W anyhow. There is no 6-10 gap in W levels...

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't pretty much every champion have a tradeoff to choose from whenever they level a spell? Why should Azir be any different?

And for what it's worth, it looks like Azir tends to max Q first and W second, so at levels 8 and 10 you're leveling W anyhow. There is no 6-10 gap in W levels...

Yes, every champion has to CHOOSE what they level. Azir DOES NOT really have the choice because, if he does not place levels in his W he gains no strength between 1 and 6, then 6 and 10 while no soldier is within range because of the way his kit is designed.

Zielmann1 votes

Azir has choices. If he really, really wanted to, he could take another level of W in place of one of those levels of q. Just like any other champion could potentially choose to stray from their 'usual' skill order to take a level in something else. Though most champions do have a preferred skill order in general, too. It's really no different.

Does Azir need some attention right now? Sure. Is removing or minimizing the tradeoff for putting points in one skill versus another the right way to do it? No.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Didn't you already post about this?

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

Didn't you already post about this?

Literally said that in the first paragraph. Different topic, different board. The other post was essentially the solution to a problem that I assumed that everyone already understood. This is highlighting the problem before I offered a solution.

Astôlfo1 votes

Azir is weak and needs buffs/nerfs across the board, or better yet, a rework altogether. This isn't the right way of going about it though.

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

Azir is weak and needs buffs/nerfs across the board, or better yet, a rework altogether. This isn't the right way of going about it though.

Interesting, .. I'm not surprised that people object to my post and say that Azir is already too strong so these 'buffs' (conveniently ignoring the obvious implication that any 'buff' of this nature would most likely come with a nerf in some other way). Your objection from the opposite perspective has me a little surprised. It wasn't my intention to say that this is the ONLY way that he could be reworked. In fact, I literally said that in the first sentence under the solution portion of my post. My intention was simply to point this out as an awkward, yet manageable, hole in his kit that could potentially be used to address any issues with his strength.

Okay, you have my attention. How do you believe that Azir could be reworked that would put him in a good position?

Astôlfo1 votes

The problem with reworking someone as iconic as Azir is because of said flashy moves and signature combos which make for fun-to-watch LCS games. He's also balanced around LCS, which consist of players far better than just about any other League player.

Azir, being a punishingly high skillcurve champ as a result, is weak outside of LCS but a monster within it. Also LCS having solid teamwork and the capability of making a good teamcomp for him as well as voice communication helps a lot too.

The very nature of Azir himself means he probably needs a rework, but that any such rework would have to be fairly drastic altering his identity a bit as well.

My thoughts would be to scale the Q damage harder (weaker early + stronger late) as well as potentially reducing his slow. His W seems generally fine to me as is. His E and Q combo along with possible flash/ult makes for his flashy plays. I might suggest dropping the tether range to which he can control his soldiers (to make them attack) or for the initial E. So that he can't immediately drop a soldier and E to a far away distance. For the Q-E combo, if the location of the soldier when E was first queued was within said tether, it would work, otherwise it wouldn't. His ult seems generally fine to me right now and should be fine after the heavy nerfs to it a little back.

Zielmann1 votes

IMO, the problems with Azir are largely rooted in the soldiers, and frankly I don't know how to make proper changes to those without altering Azir's entire identity. Two biggest issues I see are his overall range with them, plus the nature of sustained magic damage.

His max command range for the soldiers is 800. Add their auto attack range (not sure the exact number off the top of my head), and he has a threat range of around (or more than) 1000. That's effectively a 1000 range auto-attack. But likely with very strong slows (Rylai's) and also the ability to hit with multiple autos at a time. For comparison, Tristana maxes out at 669 and Koggy maxes at 710. That's a crazy safe level of poke and/or wave clear, even if it doesn't have a 100% uptime. One frustration I've had playing against Azir is that when running away from them, the soldiers seem to always get one more auto out than they should.

As for sustained magic damage, the game really isn't designed to support it. MR items tend to be built around protecting from the high burst nature typical of magic damage abilities. Armor items are generally built more around dealing with the sustained physical damage, particularly from ADCs. This makes Azir feel pretty bad to have to tank against, because even without building much/any magic pen, he's generally able to quickly rip right through a tank with high MR.

Astôlfo1 votes

Yeah, that's the main issue. The whole thing with being AP DPS with a large range is really strong, but changing that means he's not really Azir anymore. Hence the suggestions I gave. In laning, he's not likely to risk using up both soldiers at once unless he's going for heavy poke and he knows he's safe (wards/etc). So most of the time it's just one soldier. The position is static, and outside of using Q once, he cannot move it. That's also the main weakness to it though, because unlike with champions who can just move around and adjust where they can AA, the soldiers are locked to one area.

Hence, a Q slow reduction + damage nerf into scaling instead would probably help, because it'll make it easier to get out of the soldiers' range and help with the feeling of an oppressive early.

Elite4Runner1 votes

So If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that the biggest problem is his threat range. I think Riot agrees with you because, as I mentioned in the OP, they have talked about bringing his threat range down as well.

I think the problem with this is that he currently has a larger threat range because he isn't really all that defensive. Being able to be offensive at a range means you don't need as much along the lines of defensive stats. Also, with his current kit, any offensive response requires some setup (summoning Sand Soldiers with his W). Not being able to respond from a long range means you will need to be able to respond more quickly.

I've actually made a suggestion several times about his W cost being adjusted to equal 40 per controlled soldier currently on the field. Meaning if no soldiers are on the field, the first soldier would cost no mana. The second would cost 40, maintaining two will cost another 40, but summoning and maintaining a third would cost 80, and so on. I think this could help, especially with his threat range being decreased because it will be more important to always maintain at least one soldier. If his tether range for controlling soldiers is smaller as well, the chances of him maintaining three or more soldiers will be lower.

To summarize the last two paragraphs, I believe decreasing his threat range will create a need for him to have more defensive base stats (or stats from an ability ... eh) for situations where he is not already prepared to respond, or he needs a reliable way to always be ready with a Sand Soldier on hand.

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