Balance Ranked Games PLS

woodvsmurph··1 votes·595 views

I apologize in advance for the mess -- I wanted to express my thoughts more than follow proper English. Also, to all those gold, diamond, platinum, etc. players who think every bronze and silver player deserves to be stuck in their current ranking, please read the specifics and consider them before opening your mouth to say that all of us play poorly and belong at our current rank. I know you guys have people who troll too, but that does not mean you understand everyone's situation. As your mother would say, "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all."

Solo queue -- Recently, I was lamenting over the state of solo queue with my friend Akali. She and I agree there needs to be some better balancing and think that the new rating system (with the statistics it gathers) may go a long way to helping with that. During this discussion, we talked about one guy who suffered around 5 straight losses in top lane. While it seems balanced (something both Akali and I like) that a player could achieve anywhere from A- to S ratings in each of these matches and still lose them all, the particulars made it seem unfair. You see, in each of them, the player systematically began building a lane advantage or denying that advantage to an opponent who wanted a snowball/kill lane through a lane bully and taking ignite. This frustrated the enemy top-laner and led to the enemy jungler essentially camping his lane from level 3 on. With no friendly jungle ganks or counter-ganks, the player was left basically to face 40% of the enemy team with only 20% of his own team (himself) to help. In each of these five straight games, the player managed to look like a certain retired top-laner from Gambit who would often be down in kills, but have lane pressure and a cs advantage. Thus, the player enabled the rest of his team a relatively gank-free laning phase and his jungler to have every advantage elsewhere on the map. Despite the camp, the player was essentially proving himself equal to 40% of the enemy team or even better than 40% of their team. For instance, in at least one game, his tank/bruiser Mordekaiser would manage to tank wombos from the enemy top and jungle, chase off or kill both opponents, and keep pressuring lane. Akali did not think this was balanced, but agreed that it was pretty OP for a level 6 or 7 champ to do with zero assistance from his team. We both agreed that with that kind of performance – CONSISTENTLY – the player should have seen wins in at least 50% of those games. After all, he gave 80% of his team the freedom of only having to beat 60% of the enemy team. Yet in each of those losses, it seems trundle made his way into bot, mid, jungle, or some combination of all 3 of those lanes to troll his team and throw the advantage he had given to them. These stats should be clearly visible in match history through things like kda and maps of champion kills and deaths. This strange situation puzzled both Akali and myself, so we talked it over. It seems there are certain players that intentionally throw games to ensure they fail their promos in bronze and silver or just because they feel regularly having the occasional troll game is fun. There are also players who are (hopefully) relatively new to league and are struggling in a difficult 1v1 or 2v2 matchup and do not get help from their jungle like they should. When offered solid advice that sounds like it comes straight from the analyst desk of an LCS game, the struggling player(s) refuse to take the offered help and improve their gameplay. I remember a time when noobs (I was one back then) were okay with filling whatever role was available and learned from more experience players. Through this, I learned to be a fearsome support – seriously, give me a decent adc and I make my adc look like an LCS smurph (that is going try-hard in a silver level game). I have also analyzed my gameplay and am continuing to work on improving it – namely tunnel vision and early rotations to join a skirmish or 5v5. The point is that I am working to improve, and will accept SOUND advice from others while ignoring poor decisions – like face-checking an obvious 3v5 at dragon vs a fed enemy team (despite me winning top vs essentially 2 people). I have also been working to supply my team with good vision. I have done that for years now as a support, but am doing it in every role now. In fact, one game I placed about 22 wards to the 7 or so from the support on my team. Yes most of them were for me in laning, but knowing half your jungle is free from any enemies (or that there is someone invading it) frees teammates up to ward elsewhere and make some smart decisions. Yet that is just the problem, players today either do not recognize or do not accept sound advice and decision-making unless it is from themselves. I still go with a teammate’s shot call if it is a sound decision, but I will not contest 3rd dragon when my team has failed to ward any of the bot half of the map and has fed all of laning despite me pulling enemy jungle to top most of laning (and providing vision in top half of map). Diving blindly into an obvious 3v5 situation – because 2 members of your team recently died from lack of vision or some dumb mistake that they refuse to quit making – is not a good idea; I think both you and I can agree on that. Yet teammates (who feed) would report me for not joining them in their 3rd dragon 3v5 face check. I am left frustrated and confused because I face a story like this way too often. Sometimes the specifics change slightly, but the result is almost always my team losing. I consistently: win 80% or more of top lane games despite enemy jungle camping me and no assistance from team; crush bot 2v2 leading enemy mid and jungle to start camping bot and fail half the games despite essentially being perpetually 2v3 or 2v4 bot and winning lane anyways. This is followed by: 1) trying to save rest of team who has fed and refuses to listen to the guy or the duo that actually won their lane (me, or my adc and me), which results in a loss for my team due to them continuing to make bad decisions like fighting where we have no wards instead of taking alternate objective or forcing fight where we have wards or 2) teamwork actually occurring (FINALLY SOMEONE LISTENS TO REASON), but it being too little and too late. Example: with zero assistance a Mordekaiser top split pushes to pull enemies away from team so they can 4 man push mid and kill some towers. Why not group? Enemy has too strong of wombo for adc and mid to survive enemy burst – instantly turning any 5v5 into a 5v4 or 5v3 in enemy team’s favor. Secondly, I can easily 1v2 and keep pushing. In latter half of mid-game, I’m pushing top and survive all in by Malphite (my lane opponent), semi-fed Udyr (from ganking other lanes on occasion), and a fed Zed (from mid). I ult and literally tank everything they have and leave them all around ¼ hp or lower while being half hp myself – that’s deathmark, smite, unstoppable force, ignite, and all sorts of other spells wombo’d on me. I keep my minions pressuring top inner tower after surviving that 3 man all in. When I consistently win trades like that all of that game, my team should win easily right? Nope, leave it to our mid to refuse to group with other 3 and push towers as 4 man group. Instead, he solo pushes a different lane and dies to every 1v1 – literally enemy support 1v1 killed the guy with no help from tower. This stupidity and refusal to group means 3 mid can’t push very far and allows enemy to rotate all 5 members to punish me so I can’t escape despite decent warding. Mid refuses to listen to ENTIRE TEAM and keeps solo pushing a lane. Again, I did not group with team because adc and mid would instantly melt to Malphite and Zed combo, so I had to pull them away from team. I used sound logic, asked nicely for mid to do the reasonable thing, and did my best to enable team. We reported mid for feeding and refusing to communicate with the team, yet I keep running into people like that mid. I find it hard to believe there are that many people out there who want to throw games like our mid apparently did, but game history says otherwise. Could you please: 1) use new game analysis functions you have made (thanks by the way) to maybe reduce lp loss for people to consistently over-perform on losing teams or 2) consider more serious or more consistent/accurate discipline for players who either intentionally throw or throw because they refuse to make smart decisions and/or accept teammates’ logical advice? This way, players will be more inclined to work together, make smart decisions, and improve. Moreover, players will be less likely to report each other post-game. Players that refuse would not continue to be a problem because they would either be moved to a lower rank where they better match up with opponents or would be removed from ranked due to toxicity. The rest of us would see that and shape up our play to reduce toxicity and make league a better place. Seems like the balance Akali, Shen, Kennen and I would like to see in ranked. Then again, there are still those Noxians out there who might oppose something like this.

Do you agree -- are you seemingly getting held back in ranked despite your best efforts and focus on helping team as well as yourself? Ideas on how Riot can improve (ranked) matches?

5 Comments

Android Cowboy1 votes

I agree with you 100%. I'm no pro, and I certainly have my moments, but you are SO right. Too bad RITO doesn't give enough of a shit to consider finding a way to group players by relative skill level/teamwork level. Gnar

woodvsmurph1 votes

Thanks for the support. I would say that "RITO" does care, but it is just really hard to figure out a way to better analyze how good/poor a player really is. Like LIVE2LETDIE said in his post (2nd paragraph) right now riot would have to analyze every game for every player across every region to see if some people really are consistently playing above the level of their "peers" on their team. I'd like to think there is a better way than that. Hopefully one day we will see that better method come into play and can find those teammates that enable us to carry when we are ahead, and help us become relevant if we are getting crushed. GL and don't give up.

Live2LetDie1 votes
  1. This should never be used to calculate LP loss and gain since it has no effect on the outcome of a game. You can be a 40/0 kat but lose the game because your team, thats including you, dont know how to close out a game. I know you dont like hearing it but this is a team based game meaning that if you lose it was a team lose and that is including you. Yes every league player has an excuse or jump on the band wagon to blame the least performing palyer but on their team but it could be turned on you since you technically could of done something to help. So no, using the new champ ranking system would be a bad idea and would promote more selfish play taking away from the team based aspect of the game. If a player feels like the game is a loss cause then they will give up winning and focus on kills to lose less LP.
  2. Reporting is the best you can do but there is no real way for Riot to punish "trolls" without looking at each game. Teams that dont listen or make bad calls it at every elo its just more apparent at the lower ones. No one should be punished for such plays when those elos are still a learning grounds.
woodvsmurph1 votes

I do try to help the team, but the team has to be willing to listen. For example, an ashe goes 4/15/3 bot and only gets one gank from me as jungler. Why? 1. she was constantly pressing to enemy tower and I cannot tower dive a morgana and possibly rammus (if their jungler couter-ganks). 2. Every time I am remotely close to her lane, she finds a way to die before I can arrive. 3. I gave her excellent vision to see enemy ganks incoming and pinged twice when rammus or enemy mid headed bot but she completely ignored warnings and kept pushing. I'd say I did my best to help her. Her support and mid also told her to stop pushing and just play safe so I could actually get to her lane with her alive and maybe pull off some ganks -- we told her this before she died 15 times. She refused to listen. That is the stupidity of some people we in silver get stuck with. The only way someone does that is if: 1. they are very new to the game and have no respect for their entire team's advice 2. they are trolling and wish to lose 3. they are trying their best but clearly had a higher skilled "friend" carry them to their current rank and now cannot keep that rank; they drag down anyone who gets paired with them. I actually believe there is a lot of the last case. Any game I see a duo jungle and solo laner or adc, I almost always see the jungle camp that person's lane even if it would be more effective for their/my team to gank a different lane or gank multiple lanes. When I'm top, it seems the jungle decides to camp me from about level 3-5 on for rest of laning. When I regularly face this without giving the enemy an advantage, I am helping other lanes by essentially occupying 2 people by myself and freeing my jungle to gank any other lane with no fear of counter-ganks. It also allows my teammates in lane to know they won't be ganked. Thus I AM helping them without having to tp to their lane. If i did that and it fails, I just sentenced our team to a loss basically because my advantage top disappears and the enemy can now 2v1 kill me snowball ahead top. My other lanes are still losing and lack coordination for 5v5 or don't know how. If I try telling/suggesting a sound strategy for 5v5 (which is what you were probably about to suggest), they generally don't listen. Example: recent game, a support nami face-checked into a warded bush to get hooked by a thresh she could see with the ward there. She gets deleted and enemy gets a 4v5 for easy win. Instead of her waiting and letting me (the tank) go in first. So it is not an issue of me not working to help my team, it is an issue of team refusing to play in such a way that I can help them. And yeah, there are games when I suck and and getting my butt kicked. Those are few and far between. When they happen though, I do my best to ask for help, work with the team, and ENABLE my teammates to actually help me. I don't continue to charge enemy turrets, ignore warning pings, and try to 1v1 everyone. That is the difference between those of us who actually want to improve in silver (or any other tier) and those that hold everyone else back. Just like you said, it is a TEAM game. So put me with people who are team oriented and try to make intelligent calls. Two key parts to that. 1. Teamwork. 2. Intelligent calls. Too many people claim "no teamwork" from a teammate that is not losing and refuses to join a teamfight or bails on it before dying. If "teamwork" is "let's facecheck 2nd dragon knowing it will likely be 3v5 in their favor because we forgot to ward it and just lost 2 of our people to 5 of theirs right before this" then I am not a team player. I am the selfish player going, "no, that's a bad idea, let's kill mid tower instead, or let's sneak baron while they are at dragon". Trust me, I've played enough games and gone with both sides of the call. Listening to teammate's (or my own) stupid call and facecheck the dragon, and trading objectives. One of them works out a lot better. I generally try to go for the more calculated risk rather than the 3v5 facecheck. If that makes me a selfish player for not "helping" my team if they choose the facecheck, then so be it. I'll be waiting for you all to respawn as I try to defend the nexus 1v5 because you would not listen.

woodvsmurph1 votes

I do try to help the team, but the team has to be willing to listen. For example, an ashe goes 4/15/3 bot and only gets one gank from me as jungler. Why? 1. she was constantly pressing to enemy tower and I cannot tower dive a morgana and possibly rammus (if their jungler couter-ganks). 2. Every time I am remotely close to her lane, she finds a way to die before I can arrive. 3. I gave her excellent vision to see enemy ganks incoming and pinged twice when rammus or enemy mid headed bot but she completely ignored warnings and kept pushing. I'd say I did my best to help her. Her support and mid also told her to stop pushing and just play safe so I could actually get to her lane with her alive and maybe pull off some ganks -- we told her this before she died 15 times. She refused to listen. That is the stupidity of some people we in silver get stuck with. The only way someone does that is if: 1. they are very new to the game and have no respect for their entire team's advice 2. they are trolling and wish to lose 3. they are trying their best but clearly had a higher skilled "friend" carry them to their current rank and now cannot keep that rank; they drag down anyone who gets paired with them. I actually believe there is a lot of the last case. Any game I see a duo jungle and solo laner or adc, I almost always see the jungle camp that person's lane even if it would be more effective for their/my team to gank a different lane or gank multiple lanes. When I'm top, it seems the jungle decides to camp me from about level 3-5 on for rest of laning. When I regularly face this without giving the enemy an advantage, I am helping other lanes by essentially occupying 2 people by myself and freeing my jungle to gank any other lane with no fear of counter-ganks. It also allows my teammates in lane to know they won't be ganked. Thus I AM helping them without having to tp to their lane. If i did that and it fails, I just sentenced our team to a loss basically because my advantage top disappears and the enemy can now 2v1 kill me snowball ahead top. My other lanes are still losing and lack coordination for 5v5 or don't know how. If I try telling/suggesting a sound strategy for 5v5 (which is what you were probably about to suggest), they generally don't listen. Example: recent game, a support nami face-checked into a warded bush to get hooked by a thresh she could see with the ward there. She gets deleted and enemy gets a 4v5 for easy win. Instead of her waiting and letting me (the tank) go in first. So it is not an issue of me not working to help my team, it is an issue of team refusing to play in such a way that I can help them. And yeah, there are games when I suck and and getting my butt kicked. Those are few and far between. When they happen though, I do my best to ask for help, work with the team, and ENABLE my teammates to actually help me. I don't continue to charge enemy turrets, ignore warning pings, and try to 1v1 everyone. That is the difference between those of us who actually want to improve in silver (or any other tier) and those that hold everyone else back. Just like you said, it is a TEAM game. So put me with people who are team oriented and try to make intelligent calls. Two key parts to that. 1. Teamwork. 2. Intelligent calls. Too many people claim "no teamwork" from a teammate that is not losing and refuses to join a teamfight or bails on it before dying. If "teamwork" is "let's facecheck 2nd dragon knowing it will likely be 3v5 in their favor because we forgot to ward it and just lost 2 of our people to 5 of theirs right before this" then I am not a team player. I am the selfish player going, "no, that's a bad idea, let's kill mid tower instead, or let's sneak baron while they are at dragon". Trust me, I've played enough games and gone with both sides of the call. Listening to teammate's (or my own) stupid call and facecheck the dragon, and trading objectives. One of them works out a lot better. I generally try to go for the more calculated risk rather than the 3v5 facecheck. If that makes me a selfish player for not "helping" my team if they choose the facecheck, then so be it. I'll be waiting for you all to respawn as I try to defend the nexus 1v5 because you would not listen. Oh, and my kda is not always great. I hate playing the "broken" champs. I prefer to find a counter to them and make you wonder why in the world this champ is beating you. Ex: adc kayle -- it is a real thing. It sucks early game, but you and kill squishies in 3-4 hits late game -- bye hypercarry vayne. Mordekaiser tank -- camp me top? Fine, if I played right early game, level 6, I walk away from your jungler's gank with no less health than my opponent top and the enemy jungle. At best, I get a double kill and enjoy my 1v0 farm for a few minutes. My kda with morekaiser games is generally low -- only 2-3. Why? Because I initiate for my team, tank every ult and ignite from the enemy team, and die. If team works well, they kill the guy I ulted, and I might live. Even if I don't live, my team crushes because the enemy has no major damage left while my team has most of their spells up. At worst, my team pings to fight, then runs and leaves me 1v5. These are just examples, but they reflect the general feel of my game experiences -- both good and bad. I have played league for a few years and am still learning, but I can say without a doubt that the percentage of team-oriented, non-toxic players has seemed to decrease. When I was a total noob, I listened to my more experienced teammates and learned what was a good or bad decision. I played the role that was available and suited to my skill level, and I became a pretty scary support. Now, people with minimal skill call all the carry roles, claim they suck at support, and ignore advice and warnings from more experienced players. There are exceptions to this --- that's why I have not lost all hope. I'm just sad that so many players demand to play roles where they cannot succeed and then refuse to learn how to succeed in those roles from people who might just be able to help them win their match. Believe me, support is still one of my mains, and I would content playing support most games if I did not have to watch teammates, and then myself slowly lose because the carries can't carry and don't let their teammates get them ahead enough to carry. On a decent team, I love support because I get to terrorize the enemy bot lane so that jungle and mid feel they have to camp us to hold our bot in check. And when my teammates work together, their camping our bot fails, and bot's lead snowballs to mid and jungle. That gives us objective control. And if we don't become super cocky and throw multiple fights, it gives us the game.

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