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I always talk about what Morde's VGU should be like so let me tell you what it SHOULDN'T entail.

Malicious Metal··49 votes·2,998 views

I've already created numerous threads on the matter of what Mordekaiser's rework should focus on and what's essential to his rework being a success. But one thing I never talked about was what his rework SHOULDN'T do. I know positive reinforcement is always better but sometimes you just have to talk about the unpleasant stuff too.

But hey, I'm digressing, this isn't meant to be taken 100% serious and I always love discussing Mordekaiser so let's jump right into it, shall we?

Mordekaiser's Theme/Lore/Visuals shouldn't:

-Make him out to be a redeemable villain Mordekaiser is pure evil. He conquers and dominates because he likes it and not because of some tragedy that befell him in his mortal life. Any angle that would try painting him as a tragic villain would be trying to hard to make him a grey character for the sake of making him more relatable. But Mordekaiser shouldn't be that. He's evil and he loves it, he knows he superior and it really shows in the way he talks and how he treats those souls under his command

-try to conform to Shadow Isles dress code Mordekaiser is ancient. He is rumored to be the first of the unliving and the necromancy sustaining him is unique. Powered by his own dark will and ancient rituals he's not some lowly wraith consumed by the curse that is the Black Mist. He chose to be undead himself so his color scheme/visuals should reflect that. We don't need spooky greens but rather cold grayish/blue and red hues. His splash art already shows a really cool color scheme for him and the recent Pentakill cinematic has great red/blue shading that fits him to a tee

https://68.media.tumblr.com/c8100d84370eb83fa051d67754472f15/tumblr_ou37u66EeL1u1jwg6o3_400.gif

https://68.media.tumblr.com/0cff67f5533636b4d6b66e2ef8a788e1/tumblr_ou37u66EeL1u1jwg6o5_400.gif

-paint him as a brute. Mordekaiser isn't some blockhead. He's an ancient evil that's both cunning and physically imposing. His appearance might be one of a towering metal behemoth but he's a powerful necromancer and intelligent commander. He has the wisdom of several millennia of warfare. He's not a beast without restraints like Sion or a berserker like Olaf. He's cold, calculating and very, very Powerful

Mordekaiser's Gameplay shouldn't:

-Give him a gimped/too conditional damage pattern like Illaoi Garen As a Juggernaut Mordekaiser's damage output should be extremely destructive and make him truly a force to be reckoned with but locking away most of his damage behind gimmicks makes for very unsatisfying gameplay both for him and his enemies. He should be somewhat reliable in his damage pattern similar to Darius and Vladimir as they have clear weaknesses when it comes to applying their damage

-Pidgeonhole him too hard into the Juggernaut cookie-cutter formula: Mordekaiser's appeal has always been him being a mix of a Mage and Fighter and his rework should keep this in a way. He's a prime Hybrid character both in terms of lore but also in gameplay and ridding him off his mage-like aspects wouldn't really be something us Morde mains would like.

-Change most of his damage to single target: Mordekaiser has always been about indiscriminately shredding ALL of his enemies Less so with his reworked Q but Mordekaiser should retain heavy AoE in his reworked kit as it allows him to be a team fight menace and eviscerate entire minion waves.

-Give him mobility: Mordekaiser is the last champion that needs mobility. He's a hulking Metal Revenant and not some reckless Berserker or dauntless Vanguard like other fighters. He's lumbering yet so very resilient in his approach and mobility wouldn't fit him in the slightest https://68.media.tumblr.com/ab64a786a978e61e2a5657df0ba15233/tumblr_ou37u66EeL1u1jwg6o6_400.gif

-Try to hold on to "CC-Less" Melee bruiser It's a concept that's bound to fail as he needs ways to force fights and bring utility to the table. His current design is archaic and frankly hilariously outdated. He needs some sort of CC in his kit post VGU

-Remove Shielding as his primary source of survivability: "Mordekaiser es numero uno, always shield, never die!" Morde has always been about heavy shielding to stay alive during engagements. It's a really interesting niche for him as it can't be reduced by GW and it gives him something in order to stand out from other Juggernauts who have some sort of strong healing to keep them healthy. Doesn't mean it has to be his only defensive mechanism as currently he has BOTH healing and shielding, it just has to stay! I feel more strongly about his shield than his healing.

-Remove his Soul enslavement/make him rely 100% around the thrall Mordekaiser enslaves the souls of his fallen enemies and it's part of his core identity. His VGU should try to keep him enslaving his fallen enemies but not make it too overwhelming like it currently is. He shouldn't feel like he NEEDS to get a clone to be relevant though as Yorick's maiden makes him feel extremely vulnerable when he doesn't have her with him.

-Change him into AD: Morde is a hybrid scaling Juggernaut and there's plenty of items that allow him to work like that (item 3116 item 3053 item 3151 item 3078 item 3146 ) And similar to Illaoi he could invest into 3-4 damage items into defensive items. Juggernauts don't have to just invest into raw HP anyways

And Lastly: #Should Mordekaiser be designed around DUO or SOLO lane? A very tricky question. I honestly couldn't care less WHERE he goes as long as he's fun to me and feels satisfying to play as. I personally think he'd be better suited for a Solo lane though as his gameplay fantasy fits better into Top or maybe Mid. Plus it wouldn't completely screw Mordekaiser players when he gets banned as we don't have anything similar to him in the bot lane anyways.

In the end there's actually very little Riot can screw up when reworking Mordekaiser as they already got what they need to make him a huge success at their disposal. I for once can't wait for him to get his due and finally live up to his awesome Champion fantasy!

http://orig13.deviantart.net/d326/f/2015/204/8/6/mordekaiser_by_hoasind-d92i0xb.jpg

81 Comments

Vartius14 votes

Yep! Pretty much agree with most, if not all the points here. Especially the "No CC" thing. It always bothered me: how did riot begin to think "No cc and no mobility" was part of his core identity? Sure, no mobility is very fitting. He doesn't look like someone who should blink, jump or do whatever... However It's a very dumb design choice to give him neither ccs or mobility. It just makes him impossible to balance.

KuroCaliber2 votes

I say give him soft CC, if I had to suggest where on his current kit, his W or maybe his E has a slow, like 40% or 50%. It would also remove his dependency on rylai's or gunblade to keep pace with the enemies.

Mordepool3 votes

Grounded CC. Attach it to his Ultimate in some gated fashion It fits thematically with the whole "Slowly advancing threat of death closing in on his victims theme"

Currently he's just slow the theme doesn't work because most champions just dash away

Malicious Metal7 votes

I see you suggest this on almost every Mordekaiser topic but I don't think grounded should be given to Mordekaiser. It doesn't fit him thematically as he doesn't inhibit you from fleeing in any way and Juggernauts should be susceptible to being kited anyways.

Mordepool2 votes

What cc then?

Malicious Metal2 votes

Displacements, Stuns, Fears, Snares. All viable options if we were to give Mordekaiser hard CC.

Grounded just doesn't seem to fit on there. Imagine if you were to give Illaoi or Darius' a grounded debuff-

KawaiiShroom1 votes

Nasus wither sounds pretty fitting. Once you are withered you can try to run but it's a fools errand because you can't get away without a dash or flash.

Teridax682 votes

For a while, Mordekaiser was unique among juggernauts in that he had above-average range for a member of that subclass, with his E being ranged poke and his R allowing him to curse ranged targets, and I think that should be the answer to his unreliability: for sure, forcing him to have no CC when there's no other way he can be healthy isn't a great idea, but if his issue is that he can't ever affect enemies because of how slow and short-ranged he is, then he should be given the range on his abilities to make it work. He is, after all, one of Runeterra's most powerful mages, and can canonically hurl literal death at people, so him having deal lots of ranged AoE damage as a juggernaut would be justified.

In fact, basing Morde's reliability on very generous range would also be a good means of equalizing him versus melee and ranged champions: a common issue with many juggernauts, particularly the likes of Garen and Illaoi, is that they bully other melee champions way too hard and suffer too much against ranged opponents, because their counterplay pretty much boils down to just never getting into melee range of them. By giving Mordekaiser plenty of tools for affecting enemies at a distance, he could be given counterplay that would depend on something other than range, e.g. outmaneuvering him and his path of destruction, and allow him to be a healthy top laner. It could also better equip him to go mid, as he'd have better tools to deal with enemy mages, and depending on his kit could even allow him to duo bot without compromising on his performance in other lanes, or requiring gimmicks to be added to his ability set.

Malicious Metal2 votes

That's a good point. Most Juggernaut counterplay can be narrowed down to "Don't get near them" and it doesn't make for very satisfying gameplay.

Giving him range wouldn't necessarily be a problem IF and only IF he gets ways to outplay his damage. It would also add more depth to him as good Morde's could play better than their opponents and find a way around their restrictions whereas good enemies can play around him more easily.

Big Lincoln4 votes

in terms of attitude I think Darkseid is a really good template, a guy who conquers casually and believes it is his right to conquer. fits mord to a T

Pidgeonhole him too hard into the Juggernaut cookie-cutter formula:

dont diss us like this though, we're probably the least cookie-cutter group of champions in the game right now

-Remove Shielding as his primary source of survivability:

tbh I don't know why they don't just Aatrox this part; make him have to build it to full before he gets the benefits, and then you can gate his durability behind either needing to stay in a fight long enough or be really good at landing his spells at the start of it.

as for CC i'm hoping no slows. i would much rather see just a hard CC spell on a moderate cooldown so he has to use it at a good time. too much slows in league as is

Malicious Metal8 votes

Slows are boring. Besides, if you're AP ya can still build item 3116 if you need more sticking power.

Plus there's a plethora of ways to give him some cool hard cc ability. As long as it's heavy and satisfying.

Big Lincoln3 votes

i agree, mord should get a way stronger CC spell than a slow. hoping for a big juicy stun

make Q aoe again pls

Malicious Metal6 votes

https://media.giphy.com/media/GM9xeWzhdeKSQ/giphy.gif Rito pls! A Mace isn't a precise weapon but an instrument of destruction!

Big Lincoln3 votes

makes me want to put dark souls in and play on one of my 4 greathammer characters

KuroCaliber3 votes

What if, (basing on his current kit) his second Q grounded someone. That way it could be used to keep people from dashing away from his third Q if Morde ever got up to them. It wouldn't be "hard" cc like a stun or a knockup, but it would be devastating, especially if you get rylai's so it slows them too. If you did that, it would even give each part of the Q its own unique benefit:

1st Q: Auto reset+some damage

2nd Q: ground+some damage

3rd Q: BIG DAMAGES.

Malicious Metal3 votes

I honestly don't see how grounded fits with Mordekaiser. It's a conditional mobility restriction and Morde's weakness should be getting kited.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Grounded should not be on Morde.

Vartius3 votes

I also would like to add that when making Morde's rework they should read this: http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

Mordekaiser should not be your typical villain with obvious flaws, rather he should be the ultimate bad guy.

KuroCaliber2 votes

Ha #12, I lol'd

Jacknife3 votes

Good post MM, I enjoyed it. If Riot were smart they could give Morde a utility tool in the same vain of thought as Yorick's thunderdome. No actual cc debuff applied, yet extremely useful in a number of situations.

Ralanr3 votes

I'm not sure how I feel about Mordekaiser being mainly AoE focused. It seems fitting, but trying to trade in lane when every ability does AoE damage seems like a pain.

Granted Sion is exactly this.

Malicious Metal3 votes

A lot of mages, tanks and some fighters are heavily AoE focused.

Hell, Galio has a low CD, high damage ranged AoE ability.

Arakadia1 votes

Hell, Galio has a low CD, high damage ranged AoE ability.

New Galio didn't turn out very well after that.

Malicious Metal6 votes

Galio's problem was that he brought heavy CC and extreme durability with that wave clear. He's just one of the recent examples.

Hell, A lot of Juggernauts have strong AoE damage as well. Illaoi's tentacles, Garen's Judgement, Darius' Decimate come to mind.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Other Juggs have one source of strong AoE. I remember how frustrating it was pre Update to lane against Morde because everything he did was AoE except R. You legit could not stand anywhere near minions.

Malicious Metal4 votes

Can't do that right now either. Morde has always been a huge AoE threat, there's no reason for him not to keep it.

His current kit suffers simply because of the nature of Iron Man.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Except before he did it from a further range. Mace of Spades hit casters from the melees iirc. E hit the entire wave plus a tiny bit behind the casters to be able to hit a champ. Now you only can't stand near minions because of his W really.

Malicious Metal5 votes

No he didn't. Old Morde maxed E and Q and had arguably worse wave clear than current one.

His E actually gained range from his rework back in 5.16.

Still, don't exactly see how this is relevant to this discussion.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

You want loads of high damage AoE on Morde

I'm saying how oppressive it was in laning.

you said how he's always been like that.

I gave examples from my experience, albeit poor ones since I only had the displeasure of laning against Morde a handful of times before the Update.

That has been the discussion, no?

And my point isn't the wave clear, give him all the wave clear you want. My gripe was how much of a range he could retaliate against champions from.

Malicious Metal5 votes

600ish range E and 300 on Q truly is huge range.

Not like every actual mid lane mage has almost twice that range with their abilities. But that's old Morde, who's dead and gone by now.

Post-VGU Mordekaiser is going to be an entirely different beast.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Yes but the problem was, as you've said, Iron Man. He hit you and the wave with E and then your retaliation was null.

I just don't want Morde mid in the future, although I know you're going to try as hard as you can when it happens if it works or not.

Malicious Metal6 votes

I know you don't want Morde mid. Just how you don't want Galio mid.

Nothing to beat your fox waifu's ass.

Doozku2 votes

You basically hate every champion in this game other than Ahri.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Most but not all. There's even a few I enjoy playing against.

Teridax682 votes

I think it depends on how the AoE is applied. Darius's AoE is acceptable, for example, because it's heavily telegraphed, whereas Illaoi's AoE isn't interactive for melee champions because there are often too many tentacles for them to dodge everything at once. Sion is also a good example of a champion with AoE damage, because practically everything he does is heavily telegraphed, and therefore predictable and avoidable. Giving Mordekaiser unholy amounts of AoE, but making its application slow and predictable, would allow enemy top laners to trade well with him if they play their cards right, while still allowing him to be a damage-dealing monster.

Malicious Metal2 votes

Precisely. Mordekaiser's current problem is that there's not a lot of counterplay to his damage as most of it is point and click and unavoidable AoE. Morde's VGU should make his damage output fairer by making it either dodgable, somewhat predictable or delayed. His E in particular has to go as it's just an AoE instant cast Cone shaped damage zone.

Great point Teridax. AoE isn't a problem, unavoidable one is oppressive though. And let's be honest here, if there's more counterplay to Morde's damage there's also more skill expression for the Morde player, which I would really enjoy.

Salson2 votes

Personality I think his cardinal sin should be Pride. As you said shouldn't be a brute (Wrath), and he doesn't seem like a possesive type (Greed/Envy).

On good qualities, I would only give him Valor. He shouldn't be a retreating type, lore or gameplay vise.

Now gameplay, Rito should probably decide where he goes first.

If it's toplane they should empathize the Juggernaut playstyle, while making him an assassin counterpick in the midlane. This would include some sort of CC, more tankyness, and probable removal of Dragon slave ( as cool as it is ).

Now mid/bot can more easily share a playstyle, though Battlemage part should be focused on. This would include higher damage, posibly higher range, some skillshots, anti-burst/trade-based shields and would sinergise more with Dragon.

As a bonus, they should check what build the comunity favors when loking into the playstyle.

-Juggernaut - item 3151 item 3116 item 3742 item 3075 item 3065 item 3111 -Mage - item 3151 item 3116 item 3135 item 3020 item 3157 item 3089 -Skirmisher!? - item 3146 item 3116 item 3151 item 3020 item 3157 item 3102 -Wtf am I building - item 3151 item 3116 item 3135 item 3001 item 3742 item 3047

Cause I have no idea.

Malicious Metal4 votes

Oh, I'm not the only one who thinks he'd totally be "Pride"?^^

In terms of builds I think my current build would actually translate well into Post VGU Juggernaut Morde build. item 3151 item 3116 item 3053 item 3146 item 3065 /item 3742 /item 3135

ChaosThief1 votes

Favorite build isn't a good way to go. However, there is something that is worth noting: favorite specific items.

item 3116 supplies him with sticking power. In the future rework, he should have some form of natural sticking power, but not from mobility. item 3151 is also a favorite in those 4 builds.

And if we add malicious metal's build in the comment above/below this one, we can bump that count up to 5 for both these items.

Popular items are probably a better idea for morde. If there's an item morde always builds because he has to, then maybe the rework should push towards something that doesn't require him building it.

Salson1 votes

Items should definitely be adjusted based on the game. If he becomes a primary toplaner, he would probably get some CC so he can rush Rylai into kiters and Liandry into tanks.

But it's possible to 'alter' the champions fantasy by making him stronger with certain items.

For instance, let's say they rework Varus. Personally I would be in favor of Lethality/skillshot based caster, rather than Crit auto-attacker.

As Morde/Darius I would build Deadman into skillshots, Thornmail into Aatrox and Randuin into Yasuo. Zonya and GA seems weird, as they are mage/skirmisher items not juggernaut items.

And I want a toplane Juggernaut.

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

One thing that puzzles me is are his metal and soul abilities separate or are they one in the same?

Malicious Metal3 votes

Imagine the Metal is a conduit for Necromancy I guess.

DarkRitual2 votes

The armor is his spell focus.

Cosnirak2 votes

So update his visuals, give him a little cc, and that's it? Feels like something is missing...

HypenMurph2 votes

I see people are arguing about what cc morde should have. I just need to put my "VERY" important opinion out there.

I never played Mordekaiser while his q stack 9 times. Although since I have been playing him a lot recently I decided to read up on the history of him in League. Seems x9 q did a lot of damage.

As some have said before..."Death is the greatest cc"... sooo how about rito just make morde an assassin and buff his q back to x9 (Maybe even more) and then he can just one shot!

/s...even though this is in gameplay and I should be serious.

Noxian Pride2 votes

I'd agree that Morde's base skin shouldn't necessarily have Shadow Isle color/design scheme, but how would you feel about a purchasable one that follows that scheme? And if one was released what would they call it? ("Shadow Isles Mordekaiser" seems a touch redundant after all.)

Considering Rito already made a post regarding his skins (I think. Maybe it was one of your threads and they responded extensively) it wouldn't be the worst idea to think they may have new skin ideas for post-VGU.

KawaiiShroom2 votes

enslaving a ghost sounds like gimmick though

Tails90161 votes

I got one thing they shouldn't do: Remove his pizza feet

######kappa

TimX24968B2 votes

Still waiting on that skin to come with pizza delivery sivir

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