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Mordekaiser's ultimate rework concept (Just some fancy brainstorming)

Malicious Metal··57 votes·3,151 views

Stealing an enemy's soul and making them fight on your team does sound like a maliciously evil thing to do, especially since they'll be forced to watch as they slaughter their own allies. Yet, Mordekaiser's Children of the Grave's been one of the most powerful and most broken abilities in the game since forever. Making a game 6v4 and even beefing up the enemy's most fed carry is not only situationally broken but also offers great comeback potential. It didn't allow Morde's kit to be powerful on its own due to how much power was crammed into one R button.

Now don't get my wrong, I absolutely adore Children of the Grave, the heal, the burst, the juicy ADC Clones drools Yet reading into Morde's lore and just having finished watching the first Lord of The Rings movie made me come up with a quite bizarre ultimate concept for Mordekaiser;

We all know how much Mordekaiser resembles Sauron. Be it looks, his Immortal Bastion being Barad-dûr, his choice of weapon also being a heavy Mace, them both seeking domination and conquest.... And both of them having immortal wraiths bound to their will, The Nazgûl and Morde's Liches.

So what if we were to stick with Morde's ghost controlling ultimate but rather than making it steal the soul of an enemy he summons his four revenants to fight alongside him. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mafj83cLIX1qeybv0o1_r1_500.gif

Children of the Grave Range; 600 Cooldown; 140/110/80 Damage; 10/15/20% of the target's maximum health (4% per 100 Ap) (2% per 100 AD)

Active; Target an enemy champion, making four Liches appear around them in a half circle, facing Mordekaiser. These riches gain 25% of Morde's and the enemy'ss offensive stats as well as 50% of their defensive ones.

These Liches persist for up to 30/45/60 seconds and attack the target enemy champion or whoever Mordekaiser's currently fighting. These Liches deal only a fourth of their damage to structures Every Lich steals a percentage of their damage from their enemies and heals Mordekaiser (something low-ish 1-5%)

This would make Morde's ultimate grant him a minion instantly while not scaling as hard with the enemy's lead. It also removes the bursty nature of the ultimate Riot doesn't seem to like as much as well as giving Morde a lot of DPS in fights. The damage being low is intentional, seeing that the Wraiths is where the true potential of this ultimate lies.

Just some raving on my part though, being a bit drunk from the fantasy epos that is Lord of the Rings. Still, I think it would actually be a really fun ultimate worth considering if Morde does receive some extensive changes in the near future.

~M.M

49 Comments

LostFr0st13 votes

Sounds pretty cool, but wouldn't that overlap with current Yorick too much?

-LostFr0st

Malicious Metal14 votes

Well the current Yorick does only summon one revenant duplicate of an ally.

This ultimate would summon unique Wraiths that just gain a portion of both Morde's and the enemy's stats. But I get your point, it's kinda similar to Yorick but hey, he'll get a sion level relaunch... soon... eventually.... maybe....

Yorick item 3070

A Superb Villain5 votes

I think he means Yorick's ability to summon ghouls regularly, functioning in a manner similar to the wraiths you have described.

That said, I always felt Mordekaiser needed something to show that he is a dark lord, and as one, more than capable of surviving alone, but also capable of calling on his vast legions of undying soldiers, the willing and enslaved; souls bound to his power.

NegusInParis1 votes

Riot even forgot to add Yorick to the free champion rotation. I'm pretty sure that they forgot about the rework too

ItsStout1 votes

No, they removed him from it because he's toxic. Lol.

Kaeblen3 votes

this would be a good new-ult for Mordekaiser OR Yorick . (theoretically, the Yorick Rework is actually underway now)

Sypher The Poro2 votes

I remember a game I played as Mord pre-rework. We won because the enemy Vayne got fed.

DeathBurst3 votes

It's still true even post-rework.

Ralanr2 votes

This might make his ability in the story where he forced the soul of a just demacian knight to kill innocent people to not make sense. But that's lore and this is gameplay, so it's an interesting idea.

A Superb Villain6 votes

I believe the ability to call on the souls of restless wraiths implies a level of mastery over an individual's soul, particularly those in Mordekaiser's thrall. Not to mention his ability Siphon of Destruction gives a very strong impression of tearing the soul from a victim's body; champions are too powerful for their souls to be removed in one instance, so they walk away with their lives, if in intense pain, only for Mordekaiser to try again later.

Malicious Metal3 votes

Like Karthus would put it; "The Grave got all the time in the world"

Gentzer1 votes

Graves ?

my name is ender2 votes

Graves "... but he doesn't have a cigar"

Kaamos2 votes

Really cool idea; I could see Riot implementing something like this. I think it would be pretty metal to have the liches manifest behind the cursed target periodically, fading into the material realm for one strong, dodge-able stab (think Fiora's riposte) and then auto-attacking normally. If they hit their backstab, the enemy is stunned briefly. The liches max out to 4 at one time, and the opponent can try and dispatch their low hp bars before they amass entirely, but every lich slain will come back faster than before, leading to more potential backstabs.

DeathBurst1 votes

The original suggestion was good and balanced, but this? It is OP.

Ultraboomer2 votes

You are the last person I would have expected to hear an idea to change morde's ult from. however I do like this. Let's leave the 6v4 teamfights to Yorick. although, yorick + morde = 7v4 so...

DeathBurst1 votes

Yorick is 6v5. Current Morde is 5v5 in the beginning, then 6v4 after the first kill.

Stars Shaper2 votes

Well this sounds nice Lorewise since I always figured 4 liches when reading his long Lore.

As a small note, Mordekaiser to me sounded always more similar to Morgoth/Melkor rather than Sauron (Grond is the weapon closer to Nightfall).

I don't think that his ultimate is what is keeping him in this condition either. It's actually the most balanced and team healthy skill he has right now because it sets a target for the team which usually should be in the backline (If you want to get the ranged guy and get the full potential of it). Also, as you said, forcing the soul of your enemy slaughter their allies is a big part of Morde character and it would be really disappointing to lose it.

Some brainstorming by me, right now there is one thing that is missing in Morde kit that is present in his Lore... the Black Mist. I really don't know how to implement it but it would be really cool to have his presence summon the blackmist giving him either an offensive or defensive utility.

Edit: even more brainstorming

Please don't kill me, it might hurt to hear that and it's already hurting me. The problem Riot has with Mordekaiser is his shield because it makes him impossible to balance in a 1vs1 scenario (and thus the shift into Duo Lane as GC has said in a recent thread if I remeber well) how about replacing it with something in the line of...

Dark Iron: Mordekaiser damaging abilities improve his defenses increasing Armor and Magic Resistence respectively by X% and Y% Reaching the cap will make Black Mist emanate shortly for some cool effect I have no idea what it to be and can occur 1 time each ?? seconds.

DeathBurst1 votes

The problem with the shield is that it lacks windows of opportunity. In another thread, someone suggested to make the force of the shield vary with time, for instance making it stronger during W but decaying very fast when W is on CD, giving you the opportunity to punish him.

Stars Shaper1 votes

It might work, but in the end it keeps 2 major flaws:

  • It's still a strong defense that scales with offense
  • CDR builds will be as problematic (if not even more) than what it is now.

Edit:

It might be doable to re-implement it as Yasuo shield is ---> Morde deals damage and charges the bar, reaching the cap gives him a shield on next hit recieved.

DeathBurst1 votes

The point would be to avoid fighting him while his defense is up, so it doesn't matter how it scales, you just have to refuse the fight (which is very possible since he lacks CC/mobility), and re-engage later. Like you don't fight a Ryze with his passive up, you just don't.

Compare to the current situation where if you engage him, he dumps his spells on you and get the shield, and you can't do anything about it.

(CD values can be tweaked and adjusted, so the second point is moot. Especially given that it's hard to get CDR on Morde without wasting part of the price on Mana he doesn't use. Only big CDR item is Nashor, which is not particularly interesting unless you want to abuse the current OP-ness of Guinsoo. EDIT: so you have a "meaningful choice" to do: more offense with AD/AP, or more defense with CDR.)

Bijorn2 votes

I really like the idea. Kind of reminds me of "Call of The Ancients" skill from the Barb in Diablo 2/3. They never did THAT much damage but they were sure as fuck a pain in the ass. It would be a really cool concept to do.

Mord doesn't actually control them like he does with Dragon/enemy ghost, they just stay close to him and walk around with him. It would still make him susceptible to being poked from afar instead of him sending his ghost to chase away an enemy. I see the Liches looking similar to wraiths from LoTR. Wouldn't have to change them for different skins or anything. The burst would be lowered on the ult itself.

Only issues I see:

  1. Teamfights. Mord would be absolutely unstoppable in melee range.
  2. Stats/damage of the Liches could be overbearing early to mid game.

Otherwise, I REALLY like this idea.

Maple Crusader2 votes

Morde now has the One Ult, To RULE THEM ALL.

Teeter Dance1 votes

Initial thoughts: 4 wraiths means that Turret tanking would be a breeze. But in all honesty, it just seems too much like Yorick/Azir to me, even with Yoricks rework coming.

What if there was a passive effect on his ult that did slight DoT to all enemies nearby (think Sunfire, but a bit weaker and a lot larger) and then had a slightly reduced power budget on the long drain (fewer ticks of dmg perhaps?) Or a slightly weaker ghost. Morde then loses the passive when the active is on cooldown

DeathBurst3 votes

The core issue is the Ghost itself, see my other comments. You can't have a balance-able ult with this Ghost mechanism.

The wraiths deal massively reduced damage to towers, so sure, they can tank, but remember, you are Melee, taking tower is hard, you need a tool specifically targeted to take tower. And if you want to dive, pets draw aggro to their owner, so they cannot tank in that situation, especially since you cannot manually control them and you need a target to cast the spell to begin with.

I don't feel like it is to much like Azir whose soldiers are from a basic skill, and I actually think there is more difference between this version and Yorick's ult than with the current live version.

Teeter Dance1 votes

What is the difference between 4 weak wraiths summoned by a Morde and a stronger one summoned by Yorick? In order to be balanced they would need to have equal stats (albeit mordes 4 would be 1/4th as strong) or they would be comparatively strong, ex. higher health offset by weak attacks.

It was implied that the wraiths would use existing mechanics on live that would allow the wraiths to tank the turret as long as there was no aggro to a champion. I apologize if that was not clear.

Also note that the more targets an outer Turret needs to kill, the longer it takes to kill them because sometimes turret shots will deal more damage than what is actually needed to kill the unit, thus wasting some of its power (for more info on this look into why laser turrets were implemented). Therefore, yes 4 wraiths would make tanking an outer turret easier (assuming all else is constant).

In order to make his ult balanceable, keep reinforcing the dps gameplay rather than the pre-rework insane Insta-Ghost AP burst combo, so the enemy ADC has a short time to either get away to avoid dying after being ulted, or at the VERY least adapt to the situation and get a QSS... And really, if an enemy ADC has 20 kills, you should've already lost.

DeathBurst2 votes

Yes, precisely, you should. Except that one single mistake from the ADC, an isolated pick-up, and you can win the game. Even if you are 10K gold behind. That's why the current ult is not balance-able. That's why MM is making this suggestion.

About Yorick's ult, it's more a matter of feeling. Both Morde's and Yorick's current ults create a Ghost of a champion after they died, and I find they have a similar feel to them because of that, whereas the suggested ult for Morde doesn't feel the same way. But anyway, it's not really important, I won't argue on that point.

The important point is the balance issue, many champs can have similar ults, I don't care (look Malph and Heca).

Teeter Dance1 votes

That is true. Biggest issue there! Maybe if they retained the summon on kill, but made the ghost (or 4 wraiths!!!) solely based off of mordes stats.

DeathBurst3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teeter Dance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kEt4T5OV,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-15T03:11:15.266+0000)

It was implied that the wraiths would use existing mechanics on live that would allow the wraiths to tank the turret as long as there was no aggro to a champion. I apologize if that was not clear.

Sure, we understood it the same way. My point is: a melee carry need that, because he can't just siege the tower from afar and attack it safely when there is a minion wave. He needs to win a fight and then use the opportunity to take the tower, and you can't afford to wait for minions to arrive, so it's good to have the wraiths to tank.

JedenVojak1 votes

Mmm, I'm not of the opinion that Morde can ever be too bursty, and I think you need to reverse those AP and AD ratios (AD is the more expensive one overall so it should have the bigger ratio).

As for the ability itself, wouldn't the minions altogether be too strong as their total stats are actually mordes + targets? People already have problems with the Yorick minions and this is 4 minions instantly on a guy.

DeathBurst5 votes

Morde is on the limit of being too bursty already, at least for what Riot wants him to do. And since THEY do the re-work/re-balance, their opinion matters most. As far as I am concerned, I'm perfectly fine with Morde being durable and more DPS oriented.

AD is more expansive, but you have base AD for free. And Morde is still supposed to build more AP than AD. So I disagree.

Yorick pets are not on a 140 s CD during laning phase, *that is the problem. And yes, the pets in this ult are strong, but they are still less strong than the fed enemy ADC that has 20 kills, that you manage to ghost once in a lucky team fight, and that proceeds to win the game alone. Remember, these pets gain 25-50% of Morde + Enemy 's stats. The current ghost has 100 % of Enemy's stats + a fraction of Morde's + also give a fraction of the enemy's to Morde himself.

Yes, this ult is strong, but it is more reliable and less strong in fringe cases than the current one. It is easier to balance, and has a clear power budget, which allows to give more power budget to the rest of his kit, if needed. The current ult will always keep the possibility to win a game by itself, so it limits the power budget in the rest of his kit.

Take my +1, Malicious Metal. This idea is darn good.

JedenVojak1 votes

{quoted}

As far as I am concerned, I'm perfectly fine with Morde being durable and more DPS oriented.

Well, Morde as he exists really doesn't work as a DPS champion. He's too slow, and he has no way to stick to enemies or prevent them from simply escaping him. He's completely at the mercy of outside forces to land his primary damage, this is why he currently has such problems in the solo lane sense. Right now his windows of opportunity are too small for him not be a burst champion.

I think if they could give him that same sort of indestructible feeling he used to have, I'd be fine with a DPS Mordekaiser, but at least he needs a way to stick to enemies IN HIS KIT if that's gonna work.

AD is more expansive, but you have base AD for free. And Morde is still supposed to build more AP than AD. So I disagree.

I guess that is base AD instead of bonus AD which is just a free 3% damage at max level, but the fact that he's supposed to build more AP only further emphasizes that any AD he gets should be a large contributing factor, since he's not expected to take that much of it.

Yorick pets are not on a 140 s CD during laning phase, *that is the problem. And yes, the pets in this ult are strong, but they are still less strong than the fed enemy ADC that has 20 kills, that you manage to ghost once in a lucky team fight, and that proceeds to win the game alone. Remember, these pets gain 25-50% of Morde + Enemy 's stats. The current ghost has 100 % of Enemy's stats + a fraction of Morde's + also give a fraction of the enemy's to Morde himself.

Yes, this ult is strong, but it is more reliable and less strong in fringe cases than the current one. It is easier to balance, and has a clear power budget, which allows to give more power budget to the rest of his kit, if needed. The current ult will always keep the possibility to win a game by itself, so it limits the power budget in the rest of his kit.

Don't get me wrong, the ghost minion ult is kinda cool and it would probably be much more powerful much of the time - getting those minions out now is more shield being charged and more bodies out doing damage right now.

I'm also not sure it's much more balanced; the total minion stat bonus is Mordekaiser + Enemies stats across the 4 guys, and people will almost always target Mordekaiser first rather than his ghosts. They probably would be better off with fixed stats + % of enemy stats, rather than the full shibang of Morde + Other guy.

Also ghosting the enemy ADC is totally cool, it would be sad to lose it for a more generic minion ability.

DeathBurst1 votes

The AD scaling is here to allow AD builds as alternative builds. It's not here to make your 1 AD item in a mostly AP build super gold efficient.

About the cool factor of ghosting the enemy ADC: sure it's cool, but I prefer a balanced champ that I can play, even if it is a bit less cool, than a very cool champ that is always under-powered or perma-banned.

JedenVojak1 votes

{quoted}

The AD scaling is here to allow AD builds as alternative builds. It's not here to make your 1 AD item in a mostly AP build super gold efficient.

I don't really think it's that gold efficient. Even at a 4% ratio Morde will have at most 40-60 AD from items or thereabouts? so that's like an extra 1.6-2.4% max health damage difference? Even if he went full AD and had 500 AD (which means buying nothing but AD items and being at full build) it would be 20% max health extra damage which is piddly compared to what he could get with an AP build.

About the cool factor of ghosting the enemy ADC: sure it's cool, but I prefer a balanced champ that I can play, even if it is a bit less cool, than a very cool champ that is always under-powered or perma-banned.

The champion ghost ult is sorta a thing he pays for with his no-mobility no-cc kit. I'm not sure the price adds up if you take that away - Morde comes out behind in that deal. I may be wrong about it, but since there is no power budget ability scaling calculator that I'm aware of I can only assume that taking away his unique power to copy an enemy champion with any other passive effects they may have (Braum ghosts are highly underrated imo) means he would need to be compensated in some other fashion.

As far as not playing it goes it's not something I've dealt with since I don't play ranked, but I can see why that would be frustrating.

DeathBurst1 votes

This need more visibility, and more upvotes. It's a well thought-out balanced idea, from a Morde main who is not asking for his main to be OP. Please, vote up! :)

GhastlyGhoulMan1 votes

Better yet, have each of the liches be ghost dragons.

But only when he is wearing the Pentakill Mordekaiser skin. ;)

t0ad51 votes

The best thing they could do for mordekaiser at this point would be to revert.

HighH11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kEt4T5OV,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-14T21:18:33.020+0000)

Active; Target an enemy champion, making four Liches appear around them in a half circle, facing Mordekaiser. These riches gain 25% of Morde's and the enemy'ss offensive stats as well as 50% of their defensive ones.

Fix it

BioticBrony1 votes

I love it.

http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/a5dnn7q_700b.jpg

Gentzer1 votes

Do they get full XP and gain exponential damage doe?

Malicious Metal1 votes

Hmm...

Hmm....

How about them mirroring Morde's attacks?

Ugh. Now i have to sketch the rest of his kit

Gentzer1 votes

Funny, I'd be game for making a mock rework of a champ! I just made a thread where I posted a rework idea for Irelia, I enjoy a good bit of balancing.

PS: Maybe I should've just got you a Morde skin rather than a Mystery skin XD PSS: I never quite understood the "half the damage dealt immediately" thing of Morde's ult, if you don't want it to be burst, just make it a Scary DoT. PSSS: Fuck it. I'll get brainstorming and post a Morde rework later this evening.

Malicious Metal1 votes

Hard to gift me a morse skin if I already own all of 'em xD

Gentzer1 votes

LOL! XD

I think I'm getting somewhere on a full Morde kit, having some trouble with Q and E atm. A quick question: which is more the Mordekaiser fantasy?

  1. Commanding an army of enslaved souls to crush your foes.

  2. Being an unstoppable revenant oppressing the battlefield.

Malicious Metal1 votes

Actually both but numero dos is more fitting for an immortal Revenant seeking eternal conquest.

Gentzer1 votes

I know both are, but I'm brainstorming the ult and I wasn't sure whether to make the ult have ghosts do all the work (numero uno) or have them be side actors to whatever Morde is doing. (numero dos). The idea I'm running with is that when activated, anyone, friend or foe, who dies near Morde during the ult becomes a ghost, and attacks Morde's enemies, and uses mini versions of his abilities, as well as their attacks granting a teeny bit of shield. So Morde can build up an army of ghosts (which will obv be weaker than on live since Morde can have a lot of ghosts.)

DeathBurst1 votes

For me, the 2). 1) is more for Yorick (or Karthus) and I don't really see Mordekaiser as mainly a mage. Sure, he has some control on "Dark Powers" (tm), but he is still a fighter.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Sounds great, I support it. BTW I made dis http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/FEcyLLrF-mordekaiser-passive-idea-shield-gen-based-on-lvl

Hella Kaiser1 votes

i have an idea of morde's ult:

passive: mordekaiser empowers his ult with the souls of the units he kills... (5 per large monsters, 10 for kills or epic monsters)

active: mordekaiser releases all the souls to curse an enemy, stealing X%(+ 1% per 10 souls) of target's max healt. if he or his team kills the cursed target he permanently gains X% of the target's ap and X% bonus ad converted to ap (i like morde full ap... ok?).

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