its a pick meta

Very Hard Engage··32 votes·1,817 views

nothing else matters more than removing just 1 enemy and forcing a 5v4 situation.

its always been powerful, and back in the day you had the capcity to stave it off for quite a while through wave clear or movement/distance keeping.

but these days your towers will fall, and they will converge on you 5v4 and walk down your mid lane forcing a hard 5v4 or your inhibitor is gone.

why do you think.... syndra... rengar...hec... lee... ryze... cassio... khazix... elise... are the go to champions right now? because they all excel at making a 5v4 happen. they dont do much else besides make that window of opportunity for the team. easily managed 1v1. but when you're down a man they just have that much more damage/combined health total than you do.

32 Comments

WoonStruck3 votes

Its not a pick meta.

Nocturne would be common then, considering he's not in a bad place.


In actuality, a lot of champions are just game-breakingly overtuned right now, and only the champions that can keep up with them are viable.

It looks like a pick meta, but its really not. Its a broken game-state.

Arakadia1 votes

Just because Nocturne isn't doing great doesn't mean its not a pick meta. For example Shen. Shen is really great when 4 man dives are common bot, like right now, but Shen isn't doing really great in most games.

WoonStruck1 votes

Nocturne is fine at the moment. He jungles well, he ganks as well as ever.

Shen is undertuned. Nocturne is considered sleeper r/n.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

Nocturne is fine at the moment. He jungles well, he ganks as well as ever.

Shen is undertuned. Nocturne is considered sleeper r/n.

According to who? You?

Nocturne isnt sleeper at all. He's OK. Neither weak nor strong.

xWaters2 votes

Like Zyra, if you get rooted mid game and aren't a tank, bye bye. Same thing with any of the hook champs tbh.

AmazoX1 votes

Shouldn't azir excel in this meta?

Very Hard Engage3 votes

yeah but hes olaf'd right now soooo.... its not that he wouldn't, but he just cant.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo6 votes

yet azir was picked by TSM in the last game and berj played him well

AmazoX1 votes

They didn't show any notification for me, I guess because I am on EUW server.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i guess.. it was a game earlier today

Fondling Gems3 votes

That is because Azir and Kalista are two champs who excel in competitive play when they are normal for the rest of us. When competitive gets toned down they are dumpster-ed for normal players. That is why Kalista (Not so much with the buffs she got) and Azir are so poor right now. They only play at the same level as most champions when in the hands of a pro working in coordination with their team.

So for Pro play Azir is fine, nothing special. However for everyone else in League he is trash. Plus Bjerg is kind of a showoff if you hadn't noticed. He is one of those people who will pick a mechanically complex champion even if they aren't great just to show he can, especially if most people consider them trash (Not realizing that in Pro play they are just an average champion)

AcidTheWarlock3 votes

Keane dumpstered C9 with Azir

BUT STILL LOST WHAT THE HELL

Looknook3 votes

Keane almost always chooses offmeta champions when he gets the chance. It's like his thing.

Sraeg20133 votes

If Azir is Olaf'd then what about 44% winrate Ryze? Or 47% winrate Cassio?

Pimasterchampion1 votes

azir is 42% across all elos

Sraeg20132 votes

And the point is?

OP says that champions like Ryze or Cassio are go-to picks, while they aren't much better than Azir, who is considered utter trash.

Pimasterchampion2 votes

They are all high skill-cap, meaning that they will be below 50% due to the fact there are newbies. Ryze has a 90% winrate over 125 games; his winrate is all from bad ryzes http://champion.gg/champion/Ryze Cassiopeia has an ok winrate of 48-49% http://champion.gg/champion/Cassiopeia I personally don't think cass is that op.ill give you that

Ryze and cass is better in midgame, which is what the games last is focused on. Azir's midgame got gutted due to his nerfs. Its just that azir is worse than ryze and cass before rlly late game, which is why azir is that much weaker than cass and ryze.

Arakadia1 votes

If a champion has 90% winrate over 125 games, does that mean on average, players with 125+ games on him have 90% winrate with him? That sounds busted as shit.

Sraeg20131 votes

Urgot is OP, because he has 100% winrate in Master+.

And no, Ryze does not have 90% winrate after 125, because people with over 125 have 55-70% winrates.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/summoners/ryze

Sraeg20131 votes

Ryze has a 90% winrate over 125 games; his winrate is all from bad ryzes

Those two people sure know how to handle Ryze.

Cassiopeia has an ok winrate of 48-49%

You conveniently skipped the part in which Cassio has 27% winrate over 125 games.

Ryze and cass is better in midgame

No, they're not. Cassio doesn't break 50% winrate until 35 minutes while Ryze until 40 minutes.

Mid-game starts at about 15 minutes.

Azir's midgame got gutted due to his nerfs. Its just that azir is worse than ryze and cass before rlly late game, which is why azir is that much weaker than cass and ryze.

Azir's winrate per game length is exactly the same as Ryze's. PS. His winrate after 125 games is 68%.

If you are pulling numbers, at least do it properly, not nitpick those that are convenient for you.

Pimasterchampion1 votes

Azir's midgame sucks bc of his inability to level up w (his attack speed steroid) until lv 10-14. This renders him unable to attack fast enough. Also, he is forced to buy rylais and nashors tooth first, which gives him about 155 ap. I remember his w has a 60% ap ratio when I read a diamond guide(it doesn't show on wiki for some reason), which gives him a whopping 93 damage per hit disregarding mr added on to the damage per level as shown here. If azir is lv 10 when he gets his second item, he is dealing 93+72=165 damage per hit disregarding mr. Then, we get his lv 1 sand soldier which gives 20% attack speed with nashors which gives 50% along with his scaling. His attack speed is 1.2 approximately. This is a dps of 216 without the q. The q does 145+(0.5*155) which equals 222.5 damage. His e is only used offensively all in when he also ults. He can kill mages, but most mages can kill each other. Azir also only offers his q slow and r ult for utility, and its not safe to do azir r insec as there are ways to fail unless one is an experienced azir main that is good. With the prevalence of divers, azir falls easily due to his low base stats. 50 / 52 / 54 / 56 / 58 / 60 / 63 / 66 / 69 / 72 / 75 / 85 / 95 / 110 / 125 / 140 / 155 / 170

Cass doesn't need to build boots, allowing her to get second item faster. Also, you get roa and rylas, which grants 20 additional ap. Also, her e, available every 2 seconds, 88+(1750.1) + 130 + (0.35175)=296.75 which is a dps of 148 not including her other spells, which may be less than azir, but she gives more utility with her grounding and ult. She is also tankier with roa, and azir's soldiers are avoidable while cass has a point and click. Her poison is easy to land with grounding, so cass has reliable damage. She starts ramping up in late mid game. She also has self peel that is reliable as azir's wall could be flashed and her mobility can kite.

For ryze, he typically builds roa and then Morello, giving 200 ap. We won't count the bonus mana that the q scaling has bc it depends on how much the ryze spammed. 160+ (0.45200) is 250 damage from unboosted q while boosted q is (2501.55 (bc of flux's rank) which equals 387.5 damage. If a full combo is done, which can occur in a few seconds, that's 160+387.5 3+2(75+(0.3200))+160+(0.2*200) which equals 1792.5 damage. If the combo isn't done, he can recharge skills quickly enough to do more damage. Mind the fact that q and 3 recharges quickly, which allows ryze to do qeq combo soon afterwards. Ryze also gets a bit durable due to the items he build, allowing him to do devastating damage throughout a fight in the frontline. His w also allows his team to secure kills. Divers can't kill him easily as he would kill them.

(These champions were calculated at lv 10 with 2 core items) Azir has a decent dps, but soldiers can be walked out of easily due to their nerfed ranges. Azir is also nothing without his insecs as his numbers aren't enough. Cass has a bit lower, but she has reliable damage that can be used. Cass needs to actually hit qs to be good and use ult properly. Ryze has a lot of damage in his kit, but misproper usage of ults could cause his lower winrate as well has improper combos. All three of these champs are incredibly high skill cap champs that are better in diamond+. Plat allegedly is apparently still learning the basics of the game, so I decided not to follow their winrates. Azir had a winrate of about 45%, around where ryze and Cassiopeia stands right now, and was considered rlly good. However, his nerfs put him in the garbage can. It is still possible to do well on azir, as shown on the dedicated high elo azir mains, but Cassiopeia and Ryze are better picks. Ryze is considered strong in high elo due to his potential. Cass is ok, but she is better than azir. I don't agree that cass and ryze are go to picks, but I consider both of these champs much better than azir.

Cowseed1 votes

then why aren't assassins doing well. it's only really the meta the players think it is.

Cowseed3 votes

I mean like peoples perception of assassins. Also don't try to communicate with me only using downvotes and shoddy information. That's rude. http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/talon/all - Small player base :/ http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/zed/all - Sub 50 winrate The other three are actually stong but let's continue shall we? :)

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/akali/all http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/fizz http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/ekko/all

A word of advice: Don't use OP.GG for champ statistics. It's past your bedtime so best get some rest so that that tiny brain of yours can develop. :)

LankPants4 votes

Small player base :/

3.08% is above average. It's not a super huge playerbase but it's not small.

The other three are actually stong but let's continue shall we? :)

Yes, there are weak assassins. There has never been a class in LoL for as long as I have played the game that had every member of the class be strong at once. I agree that Akali and Fizz are basically garbage and Ekko's maybe a touch weak, but that's always true of every class. In early S5 when there were ADCs in every lane Ashe, Kog and Trist were all basically garbage.

A word of advice: Don't use OP.GG for champ statistics. It's past your bedtime so best get some rest so that that tiny brain of yours can develop. :)

"Don't use that, it doesn't agree with my point". Riot has in the past encouraged people to use op.gg, so I'm willing to bet that it's fairly accurate.

AmazoX1 votes

Why only see the % on NA server? You know should see things overall.

CowSeed is right, LeagueOfGraphs is also accurate, Riot Games have credited them before.

LankPants2 votes

You can change that to EUW or KR, it's really not that hard. I posted NA because the guy I'm talking to is from.

If you change the region to KR or EUW it changes literally nothing, go ahead, be my guest. In fact if anything these champs are on average more favoured on EUW than NA and Korea than EUW.

AmazoX1 votes

If it changes nothing then why does it even give the option to change region?

In fact if anything these champs are on average more favoured on EUW

Where did you get this information?

LankPants2 votes

I changed the na in the URL to euw. If you change it to www you get KR. It's not rocket science.

It does change winrates and playrates, but not significantly. All the champs are still good across all 3 regions.

AmazoX1 votes

{quoted}

If you change the region to KR or EUW it changes literally nothing, go ahead, be my guest.

lul.

Pale Pirate1 votes

I fear how assassins after this meta is over if this guy is right.

Tails90161 votes

Syndra makes 5 v 4s? she makes 5 v 0s given the chance, and if she's fed... and if you play with a bunch of monkeys.

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