A Point-by-Point analysis on why Shen feels much weaker now. (Rather lengthy post, you were warned)

Melledoneus··90 votes·11,906 views

Many people have been asking me why Shen is much weaker than before. I didn't know what they were talking about before I binge played him like I usually do, and I realized the issues he has with his kit that make him feel like he possesses much less strength than before. He's not underpowered, he actually has very good potential to be a god tier top laner with his new mechanics, but the actual execution of these tools is extremely awkward.


#1. Shen's spirit blade feels more like an anchor than a tool for battle.


This is because the positioning of the sword is impossible to control without using your Q or your ultimate. The tether distance is way too far to be smooth, and actually is counter-intuitive to its purpose of positioning it right. Shen players like to have the advantage of being able to utilize their E however they wish, because it's basic and easy to use. A linear skillshot that can move through units and walls. But the addition of another element makes it a bit foreign, and changes up the play style quite a bit.

Not only is the tether range too far, but the speed of the sword is too slow to be utilized efficiently. Opponents see that you used your Q the moment you press the button, but the sword itself can take up to 3 seconds just to get to you. Not to mention that the buff on your Q doesn't occur until your sword hits your model, opponents can easily back off and wait out your failed engage before retaliating and punishing you for trying.

#Possible solutions

It's a matter of utility and speed. **Either decrease the tether range dramatically, or sharply increase the missile speed of the spirit blade. ** This will decrease the arrival time of a distant spirit blade, making it a threat even from so far away. It also reduces the "delayed utility" feeling you get when playing Shen, as his blade will be more reliable in lane and during trades. There is currently no utility or counterplay associated with Shen having his blade be far away from himself. Your opponent would not know what is in the fog of war, how close your blade is, and there is no strategic value to have a blade be a Nocturne ult's worth of distance away from your lane. It's just a mechanic that makes spamming his Q all the more viable, which is not something a strategic dueling tank like Shen should do. He is meant to pick his fights carefully, positioning and pulling off risky engages in order to gain the upper hand on his opponents. Good players would counter this by relying on side stepping his E (which is relatively easy to do), and watching Shen's movements to watch for any behavioral cues.

Another possible solution, a rather radical one in itself, is to allow Shen to reposition his sword at will without utilizing his Q. This would clear up any inconsistencies and clunkiness associated with his sword's distance, but would come at the price of clarity and simplicity. This idea has been entertained by many, but while it seems logical it would make Shen feel too much like Orianna, in my opinion.


#2. Twilight Assault (Q) feels extremely clunky and unrewarding for a skirmishing and trading tool.


This is attributed to two things. First, Shen's Q auto attack buff doesn't start until the moment his blade reaches him. Second: the auto attacks themselves take too long to proc and are easy to retreat from. When playing Shen in the top lane, you usually don't have the tools to fight some of the more powerful top laners like Gangplank or MonkeyKing. Both can easily retreat should they suspect something, and can punish heavily for walking away from a failed engage. Shen theoretically has the tools to counter this, but they are not very reliable.

Many a time, Shen players have engaged while pulling in the blade through their opponent. However, by the time the blade has reached them, the opponent is already ahead of the Shen player and/or out of the taunt duration. While I do agree that Shen needs to be melee in order to give him ways to be countered, I feel like the slow on his Q isn't as punishing as it should, given the qualifications needed to actually pull it off. It takes careful positioning, planning, and outright reaction time in order to get a good engage with the Q, but it only takes a simple side step from your opponent or a 50 unit retreat in order to negate all that effort.

#Possible Solutions The best way to make Shen's Q feel less clunky and more rewarding lies in the reward for landing the Q on an opponent and the actual method of using it. Either increase the slow's duration and/or strength for pulling a spirit blade through an opponent or let the auto attack buffs prematurely activate. Increasing the duration of the slow could help deal with the slew of utility and escape tools top laners can have, inhibiting their movement further or for longer gives Shen a bigger window to force a fight to be in his favor, to reward good play and careful planning. This will separate the success rates between good Shens and great Shens. Should the latter be implemented, the actual blade's positioning could be used as a complimentary slow in exchange for the extra damage. For example, the tooltip could be read as follows:

Should the Spirit blade not reach Shen within .75 seconds, Shen's next three attacks are empowered anyway.

This would not only create some breathing room for Shen players, but give them options to actually think about. "Should I wait for my blade to pass through for extra damage or should I use my attacks now in order to avoid the risk of my opponent getting away unscathed?" This is the buff that could make Shen enter competitive play as a top laner again, as his versatility and strengths are exclusive against immobile, auto-attack oriented top laners. This could broaden the spectrum a bit, making Shen less of a super niche pick and more of a champion that can be played to complement his team's strengths while utilizing his own. Against champions like Riven and Renekton, who can simply CC Shen and walk away once they realize he's going in, Shen can actually have the tools to hold his own against lanes with good disengage. Albeit they will be just as difficult as ever, but not impossible.


#3. Spirit's Refuge (W) is extremely powerful on its own, but nearly impossible to utilize correctly.


This ties back to Shen's spirit blade feeling more like an anchor than an actual pillar of strength. The positioning on Shen's W is extremely awkward, as the blade is almost always stationary when not being dragged around with Shen's Q. However, it also is attributed to the fact that using it punishes Shen very hard, even if he does use it at a very crucial moment. The massive cooldown of 18 seconds (12 when maxed out) is a good way to inhibit Shen's ability to spam it (inb4 URF mode Shen becoming Jax during the dodge era), but for a defensive tool it is extremely taxing to use. You lose 40 energy, which doesn't seem like much by itself, but when considering that the cooldown itself doesn't go down by much makes you think that the effect would last longer than 1.75 seconds when maxed out. The cooldown is too high, the energy cost isn't necessary because it's already inhibited by the cooldown, and for what it takes to position it right in the heat of battle, it doesn't offer much.

#Possible Solutions Shen's problems with his W lie in the lackluster reward for what is given in return. There is no reason to level up Spirit Refuge (W) at the moment because max level only gives you a cooldown reduction of 6 seconds. It doesn't feel like there is a reason to level it up even in the most defensive playstyle. Remove the unnecessary energy cost, lower its cooldown, or increase the protective zone duration per ability level. Removing the energy cost would only make sense, since as mentioned before, the cooldown is enough to gate it. An energy cost is a joke and serves no real purpose but to make awkward situations where you're 40 energy short for an ability. Should the energy cost stay, the cooldown of the actual ability should be reduced per level, perhaps at a decent 8 seconds when maxed out. This would make his W actually feel involved, and less like an ability to use then forget about. Additionally, the energy cost would actually make sense. The final of the three would be, in my opinion, the most logical. The protective zone, even at max rank, feels like a poor excuse of a defensive ability, since it doesn't feel like a tide-turning ability late game as it is. Increasing the duration to something reasonable late game, say to a decent 2.5-3 seconds (Ok, 3 seconds seems a bit excessive, but you get my point) would be better.)

Another solution that seems a bit more farfetched could be to add a health shield to the protective zone exclusively for allies. The original issue I found with this was that Shen would abuse the crap out of the extra health shield in lane, and be unkillable. The solution is to give it only to allies. This way, for the measly 1.75 second dodge zone, you can protect your team from AoE abilities and spells while inside the zone as well. It'd feel more like a "Spirit's Refuge" rather than a "Spirit's Bullet Time Zone." However, this change might actually break Shen, so we never know.


**Thank you for reading. I know this post was a little on the lengthy side, but I just wanted to express my views on the new Shen rework and possible suggestions that could be implemented to make his gameplay feel better. This is not a thread clamoring for Shen buffs. This is a subjective analysis. **

P.S: Don't start any comment wars. This is a place for discussion, not for a poor imitation of Comedy Central's roast sessions.

144 Comments

CHARGIN28 votes

Miss the damage reduction from taunted players during the laning phase.

Melledoneus7 votes

Yeah, that was always a kicker against champions like Riven.

Kouga17 votes

I played Old Shen quite a bit, so far only have a handful of games with New Shen:

A lot of it, for me, comes down to the fact that they kind of force Shen to combo his abilities in ways that either don't feel smooth, or feel counter-intuitive.

They removed the damage reduction from Shadow Dash. "Ok, well, his W now dodges everything, so maybe they're forcing him to use his W for the "reduction" effect he would otherwise get." And since he gets refunded energy per target Taunted, and he could theoretically taunt several targets, this makes sense. The point where Shen is likely to get the most mileage out of it is during a 3-5 person taunt (in terms of most damage dodged).

But, his W is based on his Q location. "Okay, so Shen needs to taunt, then pull the sword with his Q, and then he can use his W." But this, then, forces him into a situation where he's heavily combo reliant. In turn, this makes it difficult to use his tools individually. Say you're losing a fight, running from the enemy team. "Oh, I want to protect my carry. I'll use W. OH WAIT I have to Q first to move it over to me." And that's assuming that you're sticking with your carry and not trying to, you know, peel. Which is what you're supposed to do.

He spams his Q for any amount of damage output, plus moving his sword; but I don't know how many times I was in a fight and Yi or Jax or Riven jumps into the fight and I hit W... and nothing happened.... because my Q was on CD and it didn't move the W to me. part of that is just getting used to the kit, but overall his kit is less reactive than before.

And again, the AoE dodge makes him feel like he should be protecting his carries, but his Taunt wants to go peel/CC priority targets.

Not to mention the number of times an enemy has barely gotten away because I no longer have any range... I'm willing to part with that, though if the rest of his kit actually felt cohesive.

As for your suggestions; instead of speeding up his Q speed, I'd rather it have a flat "time to Shen." i.e, Shen summons his spirit blade, traveling to him over 1.5 seconds" or something. The issue I would see with speeding it up is, honestly, at short range (mostly in laning phase) I find it pretty easy to hit with it because of how fast it already is. This would slow it down at short ranges, but again I don't have much problem with hitting it as it is. But if it were far away, it'd move faster in order to get to him in the same amount of time. it would also make the "time to Shen" standardized which would let him (and his opponent) try to time and feel out the delay. I admit this would make it easier to walk away, so I'd suggest upping the Slow speed in this case.

Drathel10 votes

As for your suggestions; instead of speeding up his Q speed, I'd rather it have a flat "time to Shen." i.e, Shen summons his spirit blade, traveling to him over 1.5 seconds" or something.

Instead of it having a set travel time, it could be "Spirit Blade returns to Shen within 1.5 seconds" so if it is closer, you wouldn't have to wait 1.5 sec but if its far away, it will travel faster to make it there in time.

Melledoneus3 votes

This is a very good suggestion.

SnackieCakes12 votes

I like Shen's new abilities and passive, but I don't like the sword at all. It does feel like an anchor and, besides the W, it doesn't really feel like we're playing around it in a positive way. The sword doesn't help Shen or his allies, and it barely hurts his enemies (in terms only of a situational slow). I say just get rid of the sword and make some slight adjustments to his Q and W to compensate.

Also, it is annoying feeling that his Q doesn't reset autos.

J Eevo8 votes

I'd also like to mention that he sucks at most matchups in toplane because of being purely melee with a long cd missable taunt (that in most cases has to be used in conjuction with W because making someone attack you that is actually building AD is less than ideal without a way to mitigate it)

And for a purely melee champion his base stats are actually terrible (check it, base armor worse than an adcs)

Melledoneus9 votes

I kind of miss being able to duel top laners more easily. Now they walk all over you if they know what they're doing. Skill is starting to become less of a factor now, because Shen's way too slow for his play style.

J Eevo5 votes

I miss being able to do things without having to rely on E for everything. People run away on low health all the time after the taunt ends and since the Q slow is so short and situational you rarely ever catch up.

I honestly feel like a weird Warwick when playing this Shen, being so AA reliant with the only way of closing the distance being a taunt that has a long cooldown.

Melledoneus3 votes

Maybe a speed boost for Shen if he lands his sword would be nice. I mean, he's full melee, where's the harm in a slight speed boost toward his marked enemy?

Sire Hippington8 votes

I just tjink the whole spiritblade thing is rather stupid on Shen. Carrying a giant floating glowstick around is unfitting on multiple levels for him imo. It looks ankward, takes away alot screenspace and actually has very little gameplay. Even if it was more reliable, he stll woud be prettyuch 'spam Q and rightclick, hopeing your opponent doesn't simply walk away' His only somewhat strong point is E->Q->W, outside of that combo he's really weak with his low basestats and all his amage bound to multiple AAs whil he has poor tools to stick onto a target. I think most important for new shen is too get rid of the spiritblade and completely turn it into an active

A possible solution:

Q: Vorpal Blade CD: 6.5/5.5/4.5/3.5/2.5 sec, cost 120/110/100/90/80 Energie

Shen throws a sword to target location(think olaf axe), dealing 30/60/90/120/150(+50% vs minions/monsters) magic damage to targets hit, dealing 50% less damage per target(min 20%). Upon reacihng it's final destination, the blade turns into a spititeblade, floating in place for up to 3sec befor returning to shen. Reactivateing recalls it instantly, but it can only be recalled after atleast 1 sec.

As long as the blade is floating, shen gains 7/9/11/13/15% ms.

If it passes any champions(and maybe monsters) upon returning, it marks them for 3sec. Marked enemies are slowed by 25% if running away from shen. If shen or his allies deal damage to a marked target, they recive a healing buff for 3 sec, healing 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 (+ 0.5% maximum health) per sec(his old Q heal)

Once the blade returned to shen, he gets an AA-reset and deals an aditional 1.5/2/2.5/3/3.5 %-maxhealth damage in his next 3 hits(double damage vs marked targets, 20/40/60/80/100 bonus damage vs minions&monsters). If the sword did hit an champion, he aditionally recived 40/45/50/55/60% as for those 3 attacks(and a different color for the glow). The Cd starts after the 3ed hit, or after the buff expires The selfbuff lasts 3sec, refreshes on AA _ This would return the option of picking up CS from range without offering much poke, it would retunr his old sustain, but not vs minions so not as opressive in lane. It would also create the positioning-minigame to land the returnimg sword from his current Q, just that he has more controll over the blade and the small ms-buff helps him to reposition and also gives him some agillity that he imo is lacking atm(he's a ninja after all). With the mark, hitting enemies on the return should give better visuall feedback and also has more gameplay impact, makeing the skill more statisfying to land. It also would make useing his W better, as you now have more direct controll over the blade and can throw it with Q to your carry to protect him._

obviously that new Q would need more testing to find balanced numbers

Aside from that, i really find it wierd that his taunt deals physical damage and i really miss his old passive, the Ki-Strike was just so statisfying to use, the animation, sound and damage just all were on point.

Melledoneus2 votes

I really like this idea, except for returning his old Q's sustain. I really liked using the Q to heal, but it was god awful numbers-wise. Alistar's heal was more potent than that regen buff you got.

However, that's a very interesting idea. Throwing a spirit blade like an Olaf axe... if Shen gets range how would that affect his playstyle? Additionally, while I am absolutely frothing over the idea, it would add too much complexity to his kit. That tooltip you put is like 3 paragraphs long. That's 3-4 times as long as Rammus' entire lore.

Sire Hippington4 votes

Additionally, while I am absolutely frothing over the idea, it would add too much complexity to his kit.

while it looks rather complex on paper, i do thik it will be fairly accesible ingame. It's basically olafs axe, followed by his current Q if you break it down.

Melledoneus2 votes

So it's basically Ekko's Q with Shen's autos slapped on?

Sire Hippington3 votes

pretty fitting, just that he could reactivate it to recall the sword earlier, though thats optional.

EstebanElGuapo2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBEW2Mm3,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2016-02-07T01:33:36.310+0000)

the Ki-Strike was just so statisfying to use, the animation, sound and damage just all were on point.

Also it was free energy recovery. If you ran yourself out of energy when your passive was up you auto something/anything and you can now do something.

New energy recovery is on the Q autos which cost energy to gain access to and you lose them if you do not have something to hit or are unable to hit whatever is available to hit within an 8 second window at which point you are not only out of energy again but cannot cast Q to try again due to no energy.

His new energy recovery method both costs energy to access and has a time window in which he must use it. There are some situations where you can run yourself out and then be standing under ur turret being dove by top/jungle with no way to do anything until you die.

YossarianSensei7 votes

I've only played rework Shen like 3 times before RQing but IMO here are his biggest downfalls:

-No range -No sustain -Low dmg -Low sticking power -Taunt hit box is tiny -Is supposed to be a split pusher but loses or at least gets stalled out 1v1 to almost anyone

Tusutaki7 votes

One of the biggest problems with Shen is that now you have to work 3 times harder to achieve the same effectiveness as the old Shen. With old Shen you can safely farm and poke when needed. Current Shen you have no poke and in order to deal any amount of harass you must full on engage. As basically a pure melee, he is worse in almost every regard compared to his former.

His lane power has dropped into almost nothing. Jungle is where he maybe excels at now but even then it's still extremely weak compared to his competition.

Gusicles6 votes

Surprised no one has commented yet-

This is a great post. I'm not a Shen main or anything but I did play him frequently and I don't like the changes that were made on him. I agree with what you've written ( but I doubt anything will be done about it ).

Melledoneus3 votes

Well, Riot has been shown to read posts from time to time. While it may not seem like it at times, they actually peruse the boards and help out where they can. Maybe we can get some kind of insight into what further changes are planned for Shen.

The changes themselves are fine, since Shen plays similarly to how he did before. But the mechanics themselves need some tweaking.

Sahn Uzal4 votes

What the fuck this is a rather lengthy post and I was not warned at all! I now am officially upset. summoner 31

Melledoneus3 votes

Oh, yeah? If you're so mad, then prove it! Leave an upvote to show how ANGRY you are!!! That'll show me.

Shaco

Sahn Uzal2 votes

I already have ._. Seriously though, it's 0:12 here. I'm gonna sleep. But I will make sure to read this lengthy post ;^) Please respond to this message so I get a notification. I might forget reading it otherwise xP summoner 31

Melledoneus3 votes

Your reminder to wake up and smell the porosread the post.

If you have any points of contention or just want to share your love of Shenpai, feel free to!

Sahn Uzal2 votes

I've read it and I posted a reaction :P extremely smooth voice ''Just so you know'' :^) summoner 31

EDIT: LOL I just remembered why I recognise your name! You are one of the people who activly comments on Surrender@20, aren't you?

Melledoneus2 votes

[{quoted}](name=SwHc Fenris,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBEW2Mm3,comment-id=000c0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-07T13:57:19.578+0000) EDIT: LOL I just remembered why I recognise your name! You are one of the people who activly comments on Surrender@20, aren't you?

Could be. Possibly. Or that could be my evil twin. Who knows?

Sahn Uzal2 votes

IT'S A HOOMAN [zombie-brand-mindblown] And no. That did not make sense... summoner 31

Shadula4 votes

they could make his spirit blade similar to ekkos ult, where it follows him based on where he was 4 seconds ago. Maybe make it 2 or 3 since its essential for his kit.

And A Real Hiero4 votes

As a Shen main I too would like to address the problems with his new kit. And I will compare every skill to the old one, including stats.

Ki strike CD 9/8/7

Shen's basic attacks periodically deal 8 - 76 (based on level) (+ 10% bonus health) bonus magic damage and restore 10 / 20 / 30 energy. Every basic attack reduces Ki Strike's cooldown by 1 second, doubled to 2 seconds while Feint holds.

His old bread and butter passive, damage and energy management in one complete package. Rewards Shen for being aggressive. Able to proc multiple times in a prolonged fight especially with W.

Ki barrier CD 10

After using an ability, Shen shields himself from 52 - 120 (based on level) (+ 14% bonus health) damage for 2.5 seconds. Abilities that successfully affect champions reduce Ki Barrier's cooldown by 4 - 7.5 (based on level) seconds. Shen's power manifests as a Spirit Blade that he can control with abilities.

Supposedly the trade off for removing old Shen's good sustain in lane, while a decent shield stat wise. Not on demand and too short of a duration to really do anything. The only skill where that shield should be delayed is his ult, all the others should activate it on cast. If it has a low duration, it needs to be on demand. I feel this is a direct nerf compared to Ki strike which was a really good passive before he got reworked (again). He is full melee auto attack reliant, lets not be silly and give him some power.

Vorpal Blade RANGE: 475 COST: 60 ENERGY CD: 6 / 5.5 / 5 / 4.5 / 4

ACTIVE: Shen throws a blade at the target enemy, dealing them magic damage and marking them for 5 seconds. MAGIC DAMAGE: 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 220 (+ 60% AP)

Shen and allied champions heal over 3 seconds upon damaging a marked enemy, with the duration refreshing with subsequent damage. HEAL PER SECOND: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 (+ 0.5% maximum health) MAXIMUM HEAL: 8 / 16 / 24 / 32 / 40 (+ 4% maximum health)

If Vorpal Blade kills its target, Shen instantly benefits from a second's worth of its healing.

Old Shen's only threatening ability, a low damage low range spammable point and click ranged ability. People have been complaining that this ability is pretty much free poke and it is, if you are unaware of the existence of magic resist. It is a low damage ability which means Spectre's Cowl effectively counters it (and Ki strike's damage). While being a relative cheap item to rush, complain about Shen outtrading you while you rush AD. While Shen rushes a Sunfire Cape, boosting his damage/sustain/tankyness, and then wonder why you lost. I agree that the ability was too easy to use, but be mindful of its extremely short range and that its use for poking will only work in lane. The only time I miss this ability is when a enemy champ is walking away with a sliver of health, E is on its huge cooldown/flash not up and I am just outside of AA range. Where is my sword of justice?

Twilight Assault RANGE: 200 COST: 140 / 130 / 120 / 110 / 100 ENERGY CD: 8 / 7.25 / 6.5 / 5.75 / 5

ACTIVE: Shen recalls his Spirit Blade to his location and Twilight Assault empowers his next 3 basic attacks within 8 seconds to deal bonus magic damage. Enemies the blade collides with are Slow icon slowed by 35% for the next 2 seconds when moving away from Shen.

MAGIC DAMAGE: 3 / 3.5 / 4 / 4.5 / 5% (+ 1.5% per 100 AP) of target's max. health

If the Spirit Blade collides with an enemy champion, the empowerment is Twilight Assault strongly enhanced, dealing 2% (+ 0.5% per 100 AP) of target's maximum health bonus damage and gain 50% bonus attack speed.

ENHANCED MAGIC DAMAGE: 5 / 5.5 / 6 / 6.5 / 7% (+ 2% per 100 AP) of target's max. health

Empowered attacks against non-champions deal additional damage, but their damage is capped. NON-CHAMPION BONUS DAMAGE: 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 / 110

_Credit where credit is due, the animations are super cool. I love them and I feel that the Q is pretty powerful if people actually stand and fight you. If they ignore you, not so much. The slow is too insignificant for the difficulty of actually landing the blade on a enemy champ, it should slow them regardless with a smaller slow so you can at least use it to retreat. I like the enhanced damage for Twilight Assault, but I wish the final strike had a small range increase. The thing that bothers me the most about this skill is, that is not on demand like his passive. Does not reset auto attacks, has a ap scaling while Shen can't build ap. I'm not suggesting that it should scale with health or armor, that would break it. Shen needs something that makes him stick long enough to champs to do his auto attacks, so I suggest moving the slow to his auto attacks if the blade is pulled through an enemy and greatly enhancing it. _

Feint COST: 50 ENERGY CD: 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 / 5

ACTIVE: Shen shields himself for up to 3 seconds. SHIELD: 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 220 (+ 60% AP)

Simple on demand shield, boring but effective.

Spirit's Refuge COST: 40 ENERGY CD: 18 / 16.5 / 15 / 13.5 / 12

ACTIVE: Shen primes his Spirit Blade for 2 seconds, causing it to project a protective zone around it for 1.75 seconds if he or an allied champion move nearby, granting allies in the zone 100% dodge chance.

I like it, but also hate it. Its very hard to keep track of the blade location in a teamfight, and I feel it is only good against auto reliant champs like Yi (duh). The cost is super low, and the CD is super high. Effectively removing another short cooldown ability on Shen, while giving him a minuscule window of opportunity against certain champs. I'd rather the cost and CD were changed a bit, so his ability costs more but has less CD because of it. Maybe allies could also benefit from Ki Barriers shield while inside the field, so AOE is mitigated a little (since it won't help against autos).

Shadow Dash RANGE: 600 COST: 100 / 95 / 90 / 85 / 80 ENERGY CD: 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 / 8

ACTIVE: Shen dashes in the target direction, dealing magic damage to all enemy champions he hits, Taunt icon taunting them for 1.5 seconds and restoring 40 energy per target hit.

MAGIC DAMAGE: 50 / 85 / 120 / 155 / 190 (+ 50% AP)

Taunted opponents deal half damage to Shen with their basic attacks.

The only bad thing about this ability was the AP scaling, yet that was only a minor gripe.

Shadow Dash RANGE: 600 COST: 180 ENERGY CD: 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 10

PASSIVE: Shadow Dash's and Twilight Assault's damage recovers 30 / 35 / 40 energy.

ACTIVE: Shen dashes in the target direction, dealing physical damage to all enemy champions he hits and Taunt icon taunting them for 1.5 seconds. PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 50 / 85 / 120 / 155 / 190 (+ 12% bonus health)

_Lets compare the two. _

Old dash costs 50% to 40% energy to cast but replenishes 20% energy per champ hit. Old dash dealt a small amount of magic damage. Old dash halves damage taken from auto's. Old dash scales with ap.

New dash costs 45% energy across the board and replenishes 10% energy at max rank. New dash deals physical damage. New dash scales with hp dealing up to 240 extra aoe damage if you have 2000 bonus health. New dash has a longer CD.

Conclusion: Its nerfed, hard. Shen's taunt was never about dealing damage, I always felt guilty stealing a kill when all I meant to do was taunt that champ for my team. It replenishes only half the energy the old taunt did, though that doesn't bother me as much. The cost increase hurts especially when you miss it more so than old Shen, simply because double energy pool = not double energy regen. So why, why is his signature taunt nerfed in cooldown while he is full melee now. Extra damage does not make up for the fact that it does nothing to enhance his tanking, mobility and utility. Damage is the last stat that Shadow Dash needs, if anything it should be removed and his CD should be reduced. Allowing a good Shen to taunt multiple times and a bad Shen to run out of energy in a heartbeat.

Stand United RANGE: Global CD: 180 / 160 / 120

ACTIVE: Shen channels for 3 seconds, granting the target allied champion a shield that lasts up to 5 seconds.

SHIELD: 250 / 550 / 850 (+ 135% AP)

If the channel completes successfully, Shen blinks to his target, placing himself between them and the nearest visible enemy champion.

Always fellt weak at level 1, I was hoping a cooldown reduction if the target is killed before the channel ends. It has a really strong ap scaling, while Shen can't build ap.

Stand United RANGE: Global CD: 180 / 150 / 120

ACTIVE: Shen channels for 3 seconds, granting the target allied champion an absorption shield that lasts up to 5 seconds.

SHIELD: 250 / 550 / 850 (+ 130% AP)

Upon completing the channel, Shen and his Spirit Blade Stand United Shield blink to the ally's location.

_They nerfed the ap scaling, lol. Though I'd rather see it go for a halved cooldown if the target expires before channeling ends, or the ability to activate W on the target during channeling. _

Now in case you were wondering:

Old Shen stats Health 2016 at 18 HP5 17.7 at 18 Energy 200 at 18
Eregen 50 at 18 Attack Range 125 at 18 Attack Damage 117.5 at 18 Attack Speed 1.03 at 18 Armor 93.7 at 18 Magic Resist 53.4 at 18 Movement 335 at 18

New Shen stats HEALTH 540 – 1781 HEALTH REGEN 10.0 – 22.8 ENERGY 400 ENERGY REGEN 50 MELEE 125 ATTACK DAMAGE 60 – 111 ATTACK SPEED [*] 0.651 (+0% – 34.0%) (0,986 at 18) ARMOR 25.0 – 69.2 MAGIC RES. 32.1 – 53.4 MOV. SPEED 340

Lo and behold all his stats save his movespeed/mr and hp5 (lol) were nerfed. So we take his range, his stats, his sustain and all he gets back is damage. This is nothing short of a disappointment.

They made Shen pure melee and then dumpstered his stats, mobility and utility in favor of damage. A tank. [zombie-brand-clap]

Melledoneus2 votes

Couldn't have said it better.

Ralanr3 votes

Would love the sword to be faster. It is frustrating to wait for it when you really need it.

Melledoneus5 votes

It's like that one friend who always comes like an hour late to your parties.

"Traffic, bro."

MrWasjig3 votes

I have to agree on a lot of these points. Shen is by far weaker than he used to be. The only good thing that's come from this update is the new visuals and that's about it. I've only played new Shen a handful of times but that's all I can stomach, he just feels awful now. Old was fairly archaic but at least he did what he was supposed to do. With what they've reworked Shen to do, he does that poorly and I mean very poorly. His Shadow Dash is weaker (despite claims it was largely untouched) and his Ult Shield feels weaker too (again, despite claims it had been left alone). Really hope they give him some buffs or at least some QoL changes to make him feel less clunky because right now he feels more like a clumsy butterfingers rather than a swift "balanced steps" ninja.

The verdict: I am dissapoint.

Kian9873 votes

Meanwhile...

Win rate:

  • New Shen 46.5%
  • Old Shen 51.9%
  • Change -5.4%

Pick rate:

  • New Shen 9%
  • Old Shen 13%
  • Change -4%

Matchup win rate 29% (12W/41L) but considering that the 12 wins include matchups against Urgot, Nunu, Rengar and Warwick, a more realistic rate for top lane is 19% (8W/41L).

It seems that until now the rework has successfully killed Shen that is played less, wins less and sucks in lane. Not to mention that they released him with a very serious bug on his E that they're going to fix with 6.3. He really deserves more care by RIOT.

Shen was my main and I stopped to play him because of this buggy and chunky rework. I get used to follow many high ELO Shen mains and most of them have dropped and/or stopped playing him. My favorite player went from D1 to P3. His win rate with Shen dropped to 50% from 72% and his KDA from 5.2 to 2.6. Guess what? He no longer plays Shen.

DragonIgnis2 votes

Radical Idea: Instead of Q causing the sword to move to Shen's location, the sword zips to where you aim it. This gives Shen some long range utility as he can slow more reliably and making E more easy to land in the process. This will help him a big deal against many matchups where he has a range disadvantage. He's a tank, not a juggernaut, so he should be able to get to his opponents with tools other than his dash.

It also solves the problem of it being an anchor for Shen. Since the sword will no longer snap to Shen, it makes sense to give him the Q buff when he casts it. The sword won't be getting to him anyways.

Being able to move the sword to somewhere other than your position also helps with using W. You could send it toward the enemy before taunting to prep the dodge field. You can also help allies significantly easier as you don't have to get to their position with Shen. Just send the sword and press W. Boom. Carry Saved... ideally.

Shen maintains individuality and uniqueness as he will be the only champion in game to have a moving, detached entity the whole game. The targeting for this ability will also be similar to Zed Q firing from his shadow. A similarity that is appropriate considering their history I think. This change will make the spirit sword significantly less clunky imo.

Melledoneus2 votes

This idea is surprisingly feasible. The technology is there, and while it doesn't really synergize all too well with his E (and takes a lot more prediction), I feel like this could be a possible fix to his range. While that may not necessarily be a good thing, it's actually something worth trying.

HidingOverHere2 votes

Just that last part about the separate entity i think you are forgetting about orianna

TheRealBaz2 votes

what about his e's hitbox?

Melledoneus2 votes

A kind Rioter decided to look into it for us and found an issue. They've resolved it but have yet to patch it to live.

Ward and Peel2 votes

he cant move and fight.

ii used to be able to q auto heal sheild for ki stacks then empowered auto and if the enemy ran away i could do it again

new shen has a little of the "fiora syndrome" a mini game of positioning. to much work for me but im sure someone is great at it out there.

Melledoneus4 votes

I've been practicing non-stop to perfect the new Shen, and I'll tell you it doesn't feel as rewarding or responsive as the old Shen was. New Shen's Q is extremely slow, and if you're lucky, you can set up the sword before minions spawn in the far bush so you can pull it in for a sneaky trade.

Other than that, it's extremely delayed and unresponsive, it needs some tweaks to become faster.

Festive Bear2 votes

I actually prefer older shen, he had sustain in lane, had a shield an and escape, pretty good combo for me. He could deal tons of damage with his passive and a BoRK. And then full tank with a luden's, and that was that. He could not be killed and when he went into a battle, just throw you q onto the enemy adc, and your entire team would be healed for doing what their supposed to be doing.

bloodmoth2 votes

Only change i feel like he needs is turning his sword into a mini speed shrine so that it feels good to have sitting around. otherwise, its just a really awkward skillshot and defensive skill that requires using another ability to utilize.

Actually that and a reduced tether range where it drags behind you instead of slowly teleporting.

Shahamut2 votes

Risk vs Reward is something to think about as well:

Currently, Shen has a single trade pattern once he hits 3:

Dash, Q/W, AA, AA, AA, walk away. The rewards are very lackluster being as you have to use your entire kit just to trade and missing the taunt leaves you with a guaranteed lost trade and no fall back.

In short, there is too little reward for how much risk Shen has to do his trading.

Late game, Shen can still be a monster problem, and 1.75 seconds is a lot of missed damage by an AA adcs like jinx or tristana, but this does very little to stop the likes of Corki, Varus, Lucian and has pretty well no effect on other kinds of champions. This makes Shen VERY niche pick as a support OR as a top lane.

Shen has no fall back plan, and cant fight ranged characters at all. Currently, he is pinned down pretty hard as a super niche pick vs melee aa champs in top lane, vs melee supports in the bot lane, and aa adc champs in general. Very risky pick, very risky playstyle, but with VERY little reward. Still feels like old Shen: Just make it to late game, be a super tank that splits and ults in. I just cant safely farm under turret anymore vs ranged champs.

Shahamut2 votes

Some solutions I have heard/like:

  • Make Q deal damage when passing through a champion.

-Make the Slow for Q passthrough a SLOW... increase its strength and have it work normally, not just when walking away from Shen.

-Have the mini slow (low strength, only when walking away from Shen) apply to enemies hit by his empowered autos, regardless of pass-through.

-Have Spirit Refuge reduce AoE dmg by a small amount.

-Have Spirit Refuge either last longer with level (start at 1.5 and go up .25 per rank) and/or lower its cooldown.

-Lower the cooldown of Shadow Dash when you hit an enemy champion, rewarding you for success and giving you back your escape option. Still lose your escape if you fail to land the dash.

Sahn Uzal2 votes

My personal opinion: They should reduce the tether range by A LOT, not too much, but still a lot. I also think it would be awesome if it dealt some damage or stole some health (rip inbuild sustain) when passing through an enemie.

I honestly hate it how the spirit blade just kinda sits there and teleports every few seconds when Shenpai walks to lane. I think it should activly move. AKA when Shen walks, the blade won't move. But when Shen leaves the max range it should move at max range. I'll try to clarify what I'm trying to say.... Attach a rope to a stone or something, and hold the rope in your hand. Now walk. Your object/stone will be pulled with you at your rope's maximum range xP That's how the sword should work imo :p

I also feel like the sword should be attached to shen while his Q is active. He is using his spirit sword to slap you, isn't he? Spirit sword flies to Shen, Shen slaps you 3 times with his sword, sword stays where Shen left it after he's done slapping. His W could just be placed at the position where the sword was at the time of casting it. (W could also get a second active to move it to the spirit sword a second time)

His new W is kinda cool, but I feel like it gives either too much or close to 0 power depending on the situation. A % damage reduction zone would be a lot more consitent and not as OP in situations...

Just my thoughts on the discussion. Would love to hear what you guys think about it. summoner 31

Sad Tyrant2 votes

MUST UPVOTE. This post must be noticed Riot I did the same thing as you, but mine isn't as detailed or got as much attention, I agree with most of it. hopefully gets a buff in 6.3 or 6.4

AS my Shen losing streak gets longer*[slayer-jinx-unamused]*

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

As much as I feel for him feeling weaker, this is a situation similar to Skarner's remake, currently he's murdering people when he goes top lane. People that play the champ hate it but everyone else is going to say, "LOL, stop defending your freelo!" sigh

Himbeekee1 votes

Am I the only one who thinks all these points are invalid and am having great success with shen?

And A Real Hiero2 votes

{quoted}

Am I the only one who thinks all these points are invalid and am having great success with shen?

Nonsense, I can still win with Shen. But I have to work thrice as hard, and yield less results than old Shen. Back then I could rival a Voli main in damage terms. Now I scramble to get even half that amount.

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