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@Meddler I don't like Shyvana having a dragon related passive.

L0ve Is Blue··14 votes·850 views

Yes, we get it she a dragon and there's a dragon on summoners rift lol so funny but hey here is a thougt : Don't make a champion rely entirely on an objective to be relevant?

What about twisted treeline? ARAM? Any gamemode where dragon isn't relevant?

Dragon is part of Shyvana's THEME. Not her kit. She is an ATTACK SPEED BRUISER. A duelist. A diver. Call her anything you like but dragon is not something that will help yall develop her gameplay to make her more relevant than she is now. Here are things you would like for Shyvana:

Shyvana gains a portion of her attack speed as MR/Armor

Shyvana gains a portion of her bonus MR/Armor as an on hit effect

Those are passives that would fit a tanky champion that scales well with attack speed. Not gaining resistances when you get an objective just because it's the same specy as you are. It's just as silly as Heimer getting AP from destroying turrets or Malphite getting bonus armor from killing krugs or Maokai and Zyra getting a bonus from killing red buff coz lol they all plants. Or why not Azir gain attack speed for each bird he kills or Warwick getting bonus HP when he kill wolves or Lissandra getting AP when she kills blue buff coz THEY BOTH BLUE!!!!

I think you get it. Now please don't make Shyvana have a passive linked to dragons. She ain't even 100% dragon. Thx.

22 Comments

RisenDarkKnight3 votes

Yeah, the new passive is super useless. She basically doesn't have one unless her team manages to pick up a lot of drakes.

The live passive is pretty much strictly better, even if she does kill a lot of dragons, so this is a massive nerf when her team can't control dragon. They are doing that on purpose (because they are buffing her ult and her dragon form E so they want to nerf something else so she isn't OP), but she might as well not have a passive half the time now (because around half the time your team only gets 1 or 0 dragons, since the winning team/bot lane usually controls drake). 5-10 armor/MR is just pitiful for a passive after the early game. Contesting dragons is something she would do anyway without the incentive of her passive.

IMO they should make a more interesting or powerful passive and just tune the numbers of her other abilities if necessary to keep her balanced.

Quepha2 votes

Being closely tied to Dragon feels stupid on Morde and it would feel stupid on Shyvana. Her being a dragon isn't enough to feel like Riot isn't forcing objectives down your throat.

L0ve Is Blue1 votes

Morde is a perfect example of this. It would also force the game even more towards bot if Shyvana is in it, like top lane isn't left alone enough the way things are...

Shadòw1 votes

Balancing around TT and ARAM isn't necessary anyway.

The game is balanced around SR and that's fine.

L0ve Is Blue2 votes

Even if it isn't balanced around TT and ARAM, a passive that makes a champion strenght entirely based on a single objective on the map is just snowbally and doesn't feel right.

Shadòw1 votes

it's a small passive that gives some Armor and MR.

it's mostly about the 10% damage Buff that makes her strong in securing Drakes. and that's what she should do. Secure Drakes and get rewarded for it.

And that's ONE of her strengths. She won't be useless even without Drakes as she still has her other strengths.

L0ve Is Blue1 votes

She won't be useless even without Drakes as she still has her other strengths.

Then her current passive is just better? She gains MR and Armor regardless of how many drakes she has and pretty much every junglers are good at securing drags if they have 1 level above the enemy jungler, wich is usualy the case for Shyvana since she likes farming a lot.

Shadòw2 votes

the passive is to add more depth into her kit.

i mean... she is Dragonborn

such a passive adds to her thematic while also making sense gameplay wise.

L0ve Is Blue1 votes

If you'd put this passive on any champion people would complain but just because Shyvana is a dragon it's ok for her to have a snowball passive. As I stated in my post if any other champion had a passive based on an objective just because of their champion theme it would feel silly so why is it ok for Shyvana? She probably won't even get as much MR/Armor than she used to get before and THAT is what she needs. To be tanky and be able to dive in the enemy team to eliminate a key target. Not to be able to secure a single objective in the game that gives a throbant advantage to her team because enemy jungler won't be able to compete with her enhanced smite. They can do all they want the only way to do dragon if the enemy has a Shyvana will be to kill her before otherwise she will be able to steal it easily. And help her team snowball around dragons.

Shadòw2 votes

they stated that they removed the Armor and MR bonus in Dragon form and per lvl because of her Ult rework.

it now gives extra size and HP and is uninterruptable. Exactly what she needed

To be tanky and be able to dive in the enemy team to eliminate a key target

and the Bonus dmg won't affect her Smite, that was a bug.

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

the passive is to add more depth into her kit.

i mean... she is Dragonborn

such a passive adds to her thematic while also making sense gameplay wise.

Because Shyvana normally doesn't want her team to take dragon?

The passive changes nothing about how you want to play.

Shadòw2 votes

she gets extra strength on taking Drakes and gets rewarded for it.

she won't have some lvl scaling resists anymore, but now she actually gets rewarded for playing like she is supposed to play.

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

she gets extra strength on taking Drakes and gets rewarded for it.

she won't have some lvl scaling resists anymore, but now she actually gets rewarded for playing like she is supposed to play.

That doesn't add depth, that's just constraining to one playstyle while also making her snowballier.

It also doesn't actually make sense thematically, dragons don't get stronger from killing other dragons.

Shadòw1 votes

it adds more depth than a lvl scaling MR/Armor passive

L0ve Is Blue2 votes

At this point not really it just aims her MR/Armor gain towards something else than leveling up.

Shadòw1 votes

then imagine if other Champs would also get their stuff only form lvl ups instead of the things they are supposed to do.

imagine if Kindreds passive would give her stacks per lvl instead of camps.

such changes are about making champions more distinct from each other while adding clear strengths and weaknesses to their kits.

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

then imagine if other Champs would also get their stuff only form lvl ups instead of the things they are supposed to do.

imagine if Kindreds passive would give her stacks per lvl instead of camps.

such changes are about making champions more distinct from each other while adding clear strengths and weaknesses to their kits.

That's a passive that rewards you for doing something that isn't usually a really good choice and also produces varied objectives all over the map.

A dragon passive makes you want to go fight at dragon in the same place at the same timestamps which you already want to do in every game because your team wants dragon.

Kindred was also built around the idea of that passive, it wasn't tacked on years later when players were already getting tired of minigames being added to already established champions.

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

it adds more depth than a lvl scaling MR/Armor passive

But it actually doesn't. Level scaling adds zero depth but scaling based on an objective that you already want adds negative depth because it reduces the variety in your game instead of increasing it.

In terms of depth, tying power to a static objective is actually worse than nothing.

Shadòw1 votes

it's not like she is useless without Drakes, but now she and her opponents can play around her passive.

thing is that she isn't purely relying on her passive, but it's a nice bonus that makes her distinct.

when the enemies have a Shyvana, you now have to consider "we might need to concentrate more around Drake as they can rush it and Shyv gets extra Bonusses off it. That's a thing you now have to consider when the enemies have a Shyv, a thing that makes her even more distinct.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

it's not like she is useless without Drakes, but now she and her opponents can play around her passive.

thing is that she isn't purely relying on her passive, but it's a nice bonus that makes her distinct.

when the enemies have a Shyvana, you now have to consider "we might need to concentrate more around Drake as they can rush it and Shyv gets extra Bonusses off it. That's a thing you now have to consider when the enemies have a Shyv, a thing that makes her even more distinct.

It's not a "might," it's a "will," because everyone already wants dragons and Shyvana wants it even more. It takes a game pacing that is already pretty clearly defined and locks it in even harder.

The bonus doesn't make her distinct, all we're seeing so far is some small flat bonuses to base stats which isn't remotely distinctive. Every champion has armor, it's just a question of how much. Every champion has MS, it's just a question of how much. Shyvana will just tend to have slightly more if her team is taking dragons.

Erockandroll2 votes

{quoted}

she gets extra strength on taking Drakes and gets rewarded for it.

she won't have some lvl scaling resists anymore, but now she actually gets rewarded for playing like she is supposed to play.

I'm not sure If Riot got around to changing all the lore or what not.

Wasn't it that Shyvana's father got killed by a really manevolent Dragon. (Perhaps pissed about him producing a half breed) And then Shyvana swore revenge and in her attempt, got help from Jarven the 4th?

It just seems like Dragon slaying is surprising appropriate for her fantasy.

As for map a modes, I recall mention that they were exploring other possibilities for the other maps as well.

{quoted}

Balancing around TT and ARAM isn't necessary anyway.

The game is balanced around SR and that's fine.

Just keep reminding me how useless Ivern's passive is on both Howling Abyss and the Crystal Scar. But he can still be good for other reasons.

Venfru Magnánimo1 votes

Here are my personal thoughts.

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