How to balance Veigar with DFG removed.

Yoella··2 votes·979 views

Oh item 3128 DFG, how I will simultaneously miss you and celebrate your disappearance.

Veigar is a yordle of very simple means. He can do one of two things; stun you or kill you. Usually he tries to do both, but if he fails one he usually ends up getting killed. Veigar was married to DFG, it was his absolute most core item. Without it he's going to suffer greatly (but still not as greatly as the suffering he wishes upon all of you). Luckily, as if to avoid the Master of Evil's wrath, Riot has stated that upon the removal of DFG both Ahri and Veigar are the top candidates for buffs to compensate. So how should this be done? Look no further, I've broken down several viable possibilities here that directly help to mend the hole that DFG will leave behind.

  1. AP ratio buff to Q. Currently at 60%, Q is almost solely a farming tool and isn't very useful for combat except for a bit of extra damage. Simply put, currently it's lackluster. Buff it to 80% and watch the magical bolts fly.

  2. Make enemies take %bonus damage from Veigar while stunned by Event Horizon. This one is simple, just give Event Horizon a +10%, +12.5%, +15%, +17.5%, +20% bonus damage from Veigar for 3 seconds (the length of time the ability stays on the field, the stun is shorter). Lookey there, that fixes things rather nicely.

  3. Lower the early game cooldowns on Q. Currently they're pretty large and this would speed up his inevitable "farming period" that can take a numbing amount of time.

  4. Make Event Horizon ignore tenacity, or at least some of it. Someone gets one tenacity item and boom your W will never land again and you can't escape them.

  5. Lower the cast delay of W, it's currently 1.25 seconds long, which is LONG. Make it 0.75 seconds (Still 50% longer delay than Karthus's Q)

  6. Buff his passive. 1% more mana regen per 1% mana missing is nice, but underwhelming in today's meta. We now have the technology to make it scale 1%, 1.25%, 1.5%, 1.75%, 2% so let's make that happen.

  7. Give him some sort of escape, but a fair one. Example: Add on to his ultimate that upon killing an enemy champion with Primordial Burst Veigar can activate the ability again within 3 seconds to dash in the direction of his cursor a short distance (while laughing) for an evil getaway.

There are 7 non-gamebreaking ideas for Veigar's compensation of DFG's removal. One for you to think about every day of the week.

5 Comments

Drunk Rummate1 votes

Veigar is one of those champions with extremely little counterplay outside of building both a QSS and Zhonyas to avoid his burst damage. Good veigar players know the range on their stun and will land the edge of the box on you so that there is no avoiding it.

Currently you can buy merc treads and escape the box before his W lands. This is a good thing because it's not a super expensive item, but it's a legitimate choice for mages to avoid his W.

The problem with DFG was that he didn't have to actually land his W to 100-0 people since he could just DFG->R->Q for the kill on most champions. It was an unavoidable, toxic combo (especially if he flashed for it). I'd like to see Riot balance more of Veigar's burst into his full combo so that he is required to land his W for kills unless he is extremely fed.

Shortening the delay of W would remove merc treads as an option for counterplay and would give Veigar a lot more consistent damage which is probably a good thing, but I think the damage of his ult would have to be looked at if that were done. I'm all for putting a lot of Veigar's required 'combo' damage on his W and making it slightly easier to land.

Yoella1 votes

Veigar is actually extremely simple to counter. Any source of tenacity will completely ruin him, which is a bit too easy to acquire for how badly it wrecks Veigar. It ruins him completely. I can't think of any other item or stat you could buy to ruin any other champion so quickly and easily. You want counterplay on Veigar? There's tons of it let me list some of them:

item 3102 Banshee's Veil, bye bye stun!

item 3111 item 3140 item 3137 item 3172 Irelia Gangplank summoner 1 Tenacity or Cleanse in any form, ggwp.

A well timed dash, leap, or teleport ability can avoid his stun entirely.

Fizz Troll pole lets him jump in and out of stun at will.

ANY form of ranged hard CC will render him unable to land his stun before you close the distance. Death sentence.

Shaco Can't stun what you can't see.

Magic resist really fucks with him. Doesn't help that Merc Treads have MR AND Tenacity.

Mana costs on a W+E combo early game is insane, just gank him twice in a row and he won't be able to survive.

When his stun is down he's almost defenseless.

If he does manage to chase you down without his stun item 3157.. wasted WQR.

Without his ult he can't kill most things (unless fed with farm).

item 3083 item 3022 item 3065 Garen If he can't kill you with a single combo, he likely can't kill you. Ever.

That's just off the top of my head.

Veigar is one of those champions with extremely little counterplay outside of building both a QSS and Zhonyas to avoid his burst damage.

PSHAW I wish that were the case.

Ironboy10231 votes

Veigar's passive is unnoticeable and honestly doesn't even do its job really well. This could be something that is either buffed or changed completely.

An issue with Veigar is that q farming in lane is honestly quite unreliable due to his high mana costs so perhaps a lower mana cost on his Q ability would better suit what it seems to be meant for. Honestly in lane I don't even both actively trying to stack Q because using it as a poke tool and saving mana in case of ganks from my team or the enemy team is more efficient use from many players' opinions which conflicts with what the infinite stacking off minions should lead you to believe.

I think his E+W are in a good spot right now because it fits his theme really well as a dark, hard-hitting mage and the delayed meteor slam feels really good when you land it, not to mention giving him a high skill cap and room for the opponent to outplay.

Veigar's ultimate seems to be the thing that decides his game play the most as a one-shot immobile mage-assassin as if you were to put the ability on any other mage it would also dictate their gameplay similarly. I feel like it could be changed to something more interactive but it may be a necessary evil as putting more potential power through a more difficult to use ability on a mage that already has one of the most difficult skillshots could over-complicate the champion.

Sooko1 votes

I am gonna say it, as a Veigar player. His E is one of those abilities you can't buff without having to nerf it immediately afterwards (think Zed's W or Nasus' Q). To me, it feels like his W needs to feel rewarding to land. Its super difficult to land and doesn't do anything other than raw damage. If anything, you should amplify his future damage with his W, but unfortunately, it is used to finish off an opponent after he is hit by all your other spells.

Increased ratio on your Q could do, but 80% is too much for an abilitiy with an already amazing passive and on-kill effect.

CDR early game is a little harsh, although the mana problems Veigar inevitably suffers could make it balanced.

The dash feels super OP, because Veigar's mandatory weakness is his lack of mobility. I don't want him to join those flashy "sellouts" (I call sellouts those champions that are always in the LCS, and prefer the underplayed ones :3 )

Tenacity needs to be effective against Veigar. It is what he is great at. He forces his foe to buy Mercs instead of offensive boots, unless he feels like getting reduced to ashes. Like I said, his E is an amazing skill, leave it like it is before Riot ends up nerfing it after an over-the-top buff.

Maybe, as an execution skill, his W could gain a bit of extra damage on %missing HP, but not be completely scaling on that, or else Veigar loses his waveclear.

And, for everything that is right, let him laugh once his ult kills someone again!

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