you improved the game for marksmen and squishy supports at the expense of assassin players...

Irelia Bot·Nov 11, 2016·77 votes·3,638 views

Please improve the game for everyone else at the expense of marksmen players as well.

103 Comments

ApocalypsicNov 11, 201612 votes

Agreed, 90% of these assassins are completely unplayable and can no longer perform their role properly now.

These reworks are clunky, gimmicky, and complete and total failures.

Not to mention lethality is just fucking garbage at the start already as well.

Meep ManNov 11, 20167 votes

IMO

Successful Reworks: Talon Rengar Katarina (minor tuning needed) Zed Khazix Ekko

Unknown: Leblanc

Everyone else is pretty bad and need help.

AstôlfoNov 11, 20162 votes

Correction. Successful Reworks:

Meep ManNov 11, 20163 votes

I think the ones I listed can function as Assassins.

AstôlfoNov 11, 20161 votes

Not against someone who's not fucking stupid, no, they can't.

Meep ManNov 11, 20162 votes

Explain please. Most people that talk like that usually describe a situation to where the person playing is a god.

AstôlfoNov 11, 20161 votes

Almost all of them except like Kha'zix now have massively long delays before they can achieve their burst. That makes it easily avoidable.

Meep ManNov 11, 20162 votes

Rengar has a warning, but besides that he actually doesn't have many extreme delays. Once he hops on you, death is fast. Zed has always had his delays. This just makes him less of a generalist. Ekko has been balanced around delays and has been able to hit them in the past. It's actually easier to proc his W now. Katarina needs some tuning on how her blades laning work, but but aside from that her delays aren't too insane besides a small delay on her W damage which can be worked around. Talon's damage is actually still pretty quick, R-Q-W-AA can still kill a target and happens over about 1 second longer period than the previous near instant death.

Only Akali and Fizz just got massive delays that make them more into Skirmishers or Divers than Assassins.

AstôlfoNov 11, 20161 votes

Rengar is a bit over the top at the moment, but his ult is easily ruinable by literally just positioning yourself in front of the ADC, as his ultimate only reveals the closest target (aka, he can only jump said closest target). Zed was and now is even worse trash. Ekko's still in that weird finicky position of trying to kill Tank Ekko without destroying AP Ekko variants (mid/jungle). Katarina's Q and her W are massively delayed, as is the blade drop itself. Literally don't stand next to the blades. 1 second is a ridiculously long time. Shaco is trash in general but not really because of delays, moreso just gutting all his damage and utility across the board. Haven't played Akali yet.

Sahn UzalNov 11, 20162 votes

Knife cat can jump on whoever he wants but only gets the crit on the closest target

AstôlfoNov 11, 20161 votes

Oh, but didn't it only let him see the closest target in the first place? I thought that's what I remembered from the PBE preview clips back when they were reworking him earlier.

Sahn UzalNov 12, 20162 votes

Initially, yeah. But they changed that :P

MunchCrunchLunchNov 11, 20166 votes

shaco and fizz got hit the hardest. pretty badly tbh. fizz is just weird right now. you have to either land a mad range ult. or auto . wait 2 seconds. and then all in. in which an adc can 2 auto u late game. shaco does no damage. the rest aren't that much different.

JQKAndreiNov 11, 20168 votes

If fizz lands a max range ult at lvl 6 he gets off 400 damage. You can 100-0 pretty much any midlaner following with his combo.

also it's not hard for him to auto, trollpole, and then Q you with W active (because it applies it). Btw the ult applies the bleeding so... R-WQ instakill still exists.

Edge of DaybreakNov 11, 201624 votes

If fizz lands a max range ult

I like you you still have hope

AstôlfoNov 11, 201611 votes

If he lands a max range ult, the enemy laner is fucking terrible.

JQKAndreiNov 11, 20162 votes

that's the point, a max range ult can 100-0 someone, but he still has lethal on 70-80% hp targets.

AstôlfoNov 11, 20163 votes

He should have lethal on all 100% health squishy targets near instantly.

JQKAndreiNov 11, 20164 votes

So basically no mage can walk in lane post six?

AstôlfoNov 11, 20164 votes

??? No, they should play smart, and smarter post-6.

JQKAndreiNov 11, 20165 votes

And you clearly know how to play smart, aye challenger?

AstôlfoNov 11, 20164 votes

??? Not sure what my rank has anything to do with it. If someone died to pre-rework assassin, they were bad and deserved to die.

JQKAndreiNov 11, 20166 votes

Not sure what my rank has anything to do with it.

It's just that the Fizz players you meet can't use even 20% of his potential, thus makes you think he's trash.

AstôlfoNov 11, 20166 votes

Uh no, it's the fact his damage is inherently gated behind delays and flat-out gutted without factoring in said delay, like most other assassins who got """reworked""", which makes assassins trash. Putting a delay on an assassin's burst is stupid and makes no sense.

JQKAndreiNov 11, 20164 votes

Give players some time, they'll eventually figure out how strong assassins currently are.

Soon people will realize that assassins can build 1 or even 2 tank items and still deal the same damage as a full damage build pre-patch

AstôlfoNov 11, 20165 votes

That means nothing. The damage itself is gated behind time.

AstôlfoNov 11, 20165 votes

Except the burst itself takes longer now which means pretty much only the horribly stupid players will get caught by it?

Cosmic WarperNov 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Things never mean nothing to you guys. Whatever I quit talking to a brick wall.

Because obviously a 1500 hp rengar that does 3000 damage, or a 3000 hp rengar with 200 armor dealing the same damage is just the same thing.

???? what is your point? bruiser rengar is NOT back. If you want to play bruiser rengar you sacrifice damage because he has high bonus AD ratios and low base damages. You have no point

JQKAndreiNov 12, 20162 votes

He gets 30% bonus Ad from his passive. Those are free infernals there.

Meaning that he can build 2 tank items and still have a Lot of ad.

JorenciceNov 11, 20162 votes

I died once to a fizz under my nexus turrets in .07 seconds and he missed ult.

Yea.... tell me again how to out play getting 1 shot in POINT 0 FUCKING 7 SECONDS.

AstôlfoNov 11, 20162 votes

Then you did something wrong, or he was absurdly fed, or you were absurdly behind, or you had less than full health, or you had no meaningful MR at all. No context = not helpful.

JorenciceNov 11, 20163 votes

Was going to respond but then i read the rest of your posts and noticed your just a troll.

I know a master tier assassian main.

Which according to you is impossible since only baddies die to assassians.

Which is obviously a stupid argument.

AstôlfoNov 11, 20163 votes

??? What does a Master-tier assassin main have to do with anything? Dying to an assassin doesn't mean you're bad overall. It means you made a bad play most likely during the specific moment where said assassin killed you, or alternatively, said assassin outplayed you and your team successfully to avoid the CC and still kill you.

Not sure what you're rambling on about, but okay buddy.

AstôlfoNov 12, 20162 votes

I worded my former of the two posts badly. Also, the former of the two was referring to post-rework assassins. The latter was moreso referring to pre-rework, but still applies to post-rework as well. The point is, it doesn't matter how good a player is. If they died to an assassin, that is because they played badly during that time segment where said assassin killed them, or alternatively, said assassin outplayed the rest of the team and managed to get a kill anyways.

RalanrNov 11, 20168 votes

... Ok that seems like a bit much.

AstôlfoNov 11, 20161 votes

How? That should be the norm for assassins. Not this delayed crap garbage it is now.

RalanrNov 11, 20165 votes

Because it isn't fun to be 100-0?

People already hate that mages do it (and hopefully will be fealty with) so why encourage it more?

Everyone wants a chance to react and fight back.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 11, 201610 votes

{quoted}

Because it isn't fun to be 100-0?

People already hate that mages do it (and hopefully will be fealty with) so why encourage it more?

Everyone wants a chance to react and fight back.

Im sure its no less fun than dying to an adc with crit and AS that whacks you in two to three seconds despite supposedly being "sustained damage" and not burst.

Big LincolnNov 11, 20168 votes

counterplay to assassins should be preparation and positioning

if they get onto you you should die quickly. they're making champs too easy to outplay

Spicy RiceNov 12, 20162 votes

Not to mention 100-0 by the only assassin with untargetability on a shot cd

TeCoolMageNov 12, 20166 votes

Please improve the game for everyone else at the expense of squishy support players as well.

2 patches later...

Please improve the game for everyone else at the expense of fighter players as well.

2 patches later...

Please improve the game for everyone else at the expense of juggernaut players as well.

2 patches later...

Please improve the game for everyone else at the expense of tanky support players as well.

2 patches later...

Please improve the game for everyone else at the expense of slayer players as well.

2 patches later...

RIOT WHY ARE THE MINIONS DOING MORE AND TANKING MORE DAMAGE THAN US

The cycle of board balance continues, we will be gutted, they will cry

FîzžNov 12, 20165 votes

As a diehard Fizz main, I can pretty much say Fizz is ruined, his burst is like 25% of what it used to be, not even worth it anymore. Delayed burst is a joke and even then it's not even anywhere close to what it used to be, pretty sure he got hit the hardest out of everyone, can't even seem to bust a damn adc that's been dc'd for 5 minutes with my full rotation and the bonus damage from the two seconds of bleed, nope they walk out with a quarter hp.

rtbf76109271Nov 12, 20162 votes

I main fizz too and feel the same way. No one will ever rally with us to fix anything though since everyone hates him :(

BakedLotionNov 11, 20164 votes

Rengar can still delete you in less than half a second. Why did Riot lie to our faces and say he can't do that anymore? Other assassins are good like Khazix and Talon But the rest are trash

HyperiönNov 11, 20162 votes

Khazix lost all of his burst.

Id rather have his old Q back, the new one is absolutely garbage.

SeenanNov 12, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Khazix lost all of his burst.

Id rather have his old Q back, the new one is absolutely garbage.

What the shit are you talking about? His Q is STRONGER now lol

ActivatingEMPNov 11, 20161 votes

I think that Talon was an amazing rework- they even cleaned up his auto animation to let you cs!

Automated RivenNov 11, 20167 votes

Except that you can only assassinate in the mid game. Late game all the adcs will out duel you.

VerdadeNov 12, 20162 votes

By all ADCs you mean Vayne?

Automated RivenNov 13, 20161 votes

No I mean all the adcs. the damage is so delayed right now that the adc can easilly 100.0 the assassin if both are six items before the assassin can kill the adc. and the adc will probably get enough lifesteal to not die as well. this is all barring ren and kha. and maybe leblanc because she has rediculous outplay potential.