Rioter's Opinion on Kalistas' Hurricane Interaction?

Skias·Jan 28, 2015·2 votes·775 views

I'm curious what the balance team's opinion of the way Kalista is behaving with hurricane? Once her attack speed reaches a certain level, she stacks her stacks so quickly and moves in a very jarring way, it becomes nearly impossible to even figure out what is going on.

Has there been any talk of a internal cooldown cap for her dash or doing like Vayne and only letting her stacks apply off the main target?

I'd really like to hear back from a red about it, It's just awful to be up against.

On a side note, If this is working as intended, why is Varus not allowed mobility if Kalista basically does the same thing with out of control mobility? It feels like Varus is paying a power tax that Kalista doesn't pay. While, it is true that Varus has his ult, most champs just gap close to him afterwards anyhow and crush him.

21 Comments

ZephyrDrakeJan 28, 20155 votes

Varus is supposed to be an immobile ADC, Kalista isn't. That's more of an issue with Varus than it is a Kalista issue

SkiasJan 28, 20153 votes

She's supposed to be mobile, but Varus is also supposed to be strong against tanks, which Kalista does better as well. Pretty much everything Varus should offer your team for picking him, Kalista does better with much less risk.

Edit: I do think that Varus needs some sort of dash or movement ability so you can at least do something.

BeatzBoyFTWJan 29, 20151 votes

He has a slow & snare, I think this is asking enough.

ProfDrDeathJan 28, 20153 votes

The "problem" with Kalista's hyper mobility is, imo, that League has less and less ways to deal with those kinds of champions - more and more ranged, point&click based CC effects get taken out, leading to those hypermobile champions becoming increasingly difficult to lock down.

I fear we will get to a point where Riot WILL be forced to bring in a new kind of CC - Cripple - that prevents moveblock abilities from working, and hand it out as an item active or summoner spell. Or will need to make slows affect dash ranges or dash speeds.

BeersteinJan 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

The "problem" with Kalista's hyper mobility is, imo, that League has less and less ways to deal with those kinds of champions - more and more ranged, point&click based CC effects get taken out, leading to those hypermobile champions becoming increasingly difficult to lock down.

I fear we will get to a point where Riot WILL be forced to bring in a new kind of CC - Cripple - that prevents moveblock abilities from working, and hand it out as an item active or summoner spell. Or will need to make slows affect dash ranges or dash speeds.

I agree, I notice some champs hit so hard and fast that most the damage is done before some cc spells can even land. A lot of cc spells have quite the delay while mobile gap closers tend to be very instant.

SkiasJan 28, 20151 votes

I agree with both of you. Most times, when Kalista has Hurricane, she is just blasting and moving so quick there is just nothing that can be done. You are just walking into a woodchipper that is out of control. The only "window" is to burst her, but with lifesteal factored in, it's unlikely you will succeed, especially if he she has anyone peeling for her. There just doesn't exist anything that can catch her with those cooldowns.

CenturosJan 28, 20151 votes

What does Hurricane do for her that is worse than other attackspeed items, besides the AOE stacks (which isn't enough for it to be a major problem on, say Twitch)? Does she jump when the secondary bolts land or something?

SquirrellyOtterJan 28, 20152 votes

The secondary bolts apply her E, Rend, for free-sets and half-mana refund if she kills a unit, including monsters and minions.

CenturosJan 28, 20151 votes

Oh yeah, I forgot about the resets and refunds...

SkiasJan 28, 20151 votes

It's a complete nightmare.

SkiasJan 28, 20153 votes

She leaps every single swing as well, so basically what happens is she is glitching all over the place just hosing anything in front of her with damage. You'd never even know that she has anything else in her kit besides Rend. So you have a small window where you can blow every single mobility ability you have and pray to god you have a 3 second stun to kill her. Otherwise, she literally cannot be auto attacked. She moves so quickly, it cancels any autos you attempt. Even AP carries can't hit her.

Sightless66Jan 28, 20151 votes

Has there been any talk of a internal cooldown cap for her dash or doing like Vayne and only letting her stacks apply off the main target?

They addressed the idea of an internal cooldown or a cap for her dash and dismissed it entirely. As for letting stacks only apply on the main target, that's kind of contrary to Rend's current design. It's designed to be stacked on multiple targets so you can pop it to get a reset off of one of them, as well as her Q interaction to allow her to shift stacks. She may or may not need nerfs, but neither of these will be targets.

why is Varus not allowed mobility if Kalista basically does the same thing with out of control mobility?

Varus hurts more and pokes much better. The difference can be seen in the ults and the Qs. His Q hurts more and has a longer range, and his ult actually does damage, unlike hers. He also actually has steroids in his kit. She doesn't. She may or may not be stronger than him, but she definitely has different strengths and weaknesses than he does. The issues Varus has are completely unrelated to her.

SkiasJan 28, 20151 votes

Hurts more is completely subjective. Kalista becomes an untouchable beast with a single item whereas Varus requires 3 and even then is constantly extremely vulnerable to the high mobility champs that rule summoner's rift.

Sightless66Jan 28, 20151 votes

Hurts more is not subjective. Varus will do more damage with any item threshold than Kalista will. She may become untouchable, and he may be vulnerable to high mobility, but those do not mean that his damage output is not higher, it means that her damage output is safer.

SkiasJan 28, 20151 votes

I find that untrue. The damage dealt by blight stacks simply cannot be stacked fast enough to outdps rend. After that we're just talking crit and attack speed damage, which also Kalista has him beat. You also have to figure in the time within attack range which Kalista is always able to be in auto attack range.

Sightless66Jan 28, 20151 votes

The damage dealt by blight stacks simply cannot be stacked fast enough to outdps rend.

For shorter fights, it absolutely can, and all of his other abilities are superior in damage to Kalista's counterparts. However, blight isn't even the main damage advantage he has over her. His arrow hurts. Her spear.... yeah, not so much. His ult also has decent damage numbers. Her ult... well, I guess 0 is technically a damage number. Not a great one

After that we're just talking crit and attack speed damage, which also Kalista has him beat.

She builds hurricane (which does not work well with crit), and she only has 0.3% higher attack speed scaling than him, while he has an attack speed steroid. She's not outdamaging him.

You also have to figure in the time within attack range which Kalista is always able to be in auto attack range.

You've worded this extremely confusingly. I have to factor in the time when they are in autoattack range where Kalista is in autoattack range? I assume you mean that she can autoattack more often because she is safer, which is not a constant factor because of the increased range Varus has and his more immediate CC. In an ideal situation, Varus just hurts more than Kalista.

I'm sticking with everything I've said. Varus hurts a good deal more than Kalista. He's just less safe. That can make him worse in a lot of situations, but he's not worse because Kalista does the same job as him. He has quite a few advantages over her. They just aren't always enough. I agree that's weaker than her, but not for the reasons you think.

SkiasJan 29, 20152 votes

I agree that maybe I worded my thoughts in a confusing way. I'll put it this way. Varus is super super slow. Any sort of slight CC and you can walk out of his auto attack range. Kalista will constantly be on you. You can CC her but you can bet that she is still going to catch you. You will never get out of her death shower.

Sightless66Jan 29, 20151 votes

Kalista is a stronger chaser (much stronger in fact), but that's not the only or even primary situation an ADC can be judged on. If Varus is in a teamfight, someone is going to have to enter his autoattack range, and he is going to hurt them more than Kalista will. If you're in a poke or siege situation he'll hurt more too. He'll hurt more for a short burst trade.

There are a lot of situations when Kalista's mobility gives her an advantage. I agree with that. That doesn't mean Varus is without advantages.

SkiasJan 30, 20151 votes

You have to admit though, Mobility is a huge monstrous factor in champ pick. Low mobility champs don't get picked often because you cannot reposition. At all points of the game, it's a huge vulnerability. Varus' ult is pretty terrible. The secondary snare is unreliable, and it has a huge tell. Kalista doesn't have an ult and it goes to show you how strong he is when she can 100% succeed without it.

Sightless66Jan 30, 20151 votes

You have to admit though, Mobility is a huge monstrous factor in champ pick.

It absolutely is, and it is a weakness that keeps Varus from play. I agree with that. My point is just that he has strengths over other champions, such as how much damage he has over Kalista, and those strengths still exist even if they don't make up for his weaknesses.

I don't agree that Varus has a terrible ult. Even if it didn't have the secondary snare at all, I'd like it just for the decent nuke and immediate CC, and the secondary snare forces repositioning from your opponents. It's not strong enough to make up for his vulnerabilities, but it is a very good ultimate.

SkiasFeb 7, 20151 votes

I enjoy playing Varus and I love his Q. But his E and R feel awful on delivery. They have a weird feeling on impact and never really felt right to me. Ashe's arrow has that impact. Varus's R kind of... flops on you and maybe hits?