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A Toplane Diamond Player's Ranked Frustration

Ragnaveil··28 votes·13,865 views

TL;DR: Matchmaking feels so underrewarding and rubberbanding that it feels like improvement means little to nothing when it should feel like something is happening.

Hey boards, I figured i'd take my time to write out my feelings of how ranked is to me. I've been playing since the end of December 2013, and this game has meant so much for me. I started doing ranked around Season 4. Right now I currently sit 50% winrate D4 on a very huge cold streak with almost 200 played (been in diamond for about 130 of those games, figuratively guessing). The cold streak combined with whats been going on has culminated into a thing I can't keep under for so long.

Ranked in Diamond 4 feels absolutely terrible, and without a duo seems almost impossible to climb out of no matter what.

Yes, this is how I currently feel. I did call for ranked in the upper ladder to be reset and that did happen. But for this entire season and last season, i've gotten nowhere in terms of climbing. Should I have duoed? Maybe, but in my own opinion it feels like a cop out. If I were to reach lets say, Grandmaster by duoing with someone, sure i'd feel happy that i'm getting closer to my goal but it would also feel like that I also didn't climb with my own strengths and weaknesses and improved.

Shouldn't I be feeling that I need to still improve? Yes, but with the quality of matches i've gotten more times than not its teamplay stuff I can't change or improve on, not solely my personal skill. I could play a match, win toplane, try to affect the game, and still lose because one lane didn't want to improve and try to play better, and that lane would cancel out my influence. Its not a one time occurring thing, this has been occurring constantly in my matches.

I want to improve, but it just feels like all my efforts go to waste if i'm not playing something broken or flavor of the patch for toplane.

This is the worst part and the reason why I haven't gotten anywhere past D4/D5 in the last two season. With the plethora of champions in the game you cant really play all of them and be good at all of them, so you choose a subset amount to practice and get good at, trying to master them. S6 S7 consisted of me playing Ornn, Maokai, Cho and Darius for S7, Lucian, Varus, Jhin and Ezreal for S6. I played those champs regularly before using them in ranked. S8 S9 on the other hand was absolutely different. S8 went from my pool in S7 to just Darius then both old and new Aatrox, Sion, and Swain by the halfway point with adc sprinkled here and there.

This season ended up worse. During preseason my pool went from s8 pool to only Aatrox. Soon after the gutting, one tricking Sylas. Now he's being nerfed over and over and with each nerf takes more influence away. As it stands currently, im practically playing try to play counter with more times than not being able to counterpick. All those hours of effort (especially Sylas and old Aatrox) trying to learn and master these champs, and for what? Nothing because I don't like nor play Riven and Jax?

Closing Remarks.

Just what more can I do to free myself from this eternal neverending cycle of when I have a good game or try to have one, one of the other lanes has to make everything worse? I have bad games and I know when I do but sometimes some of my bad scorelines don't reflect what truly happened in the match. It just seems like with all the shifting around of the meta for the past two seasons, it feels like personal improvement and versatility gets shoved to the wayside until D3+, where that determines if you can get to Masters and onward. I keep trying to adapt, but with things remaining as they are, it wont matter how much I adapt until I play and solely play the flavors of the month (which I rarely have practiced for) that are broken or close to broken. How much of that is truly personal skill?

51 Comments

Starcraft243ver7 votes

Ranked in D5 has always been crap, and now D4 is the new D5.

Ragnaveil1 votes

You telling me. This is my second year in the hellhole and it just ticks me off. I know I haven't hit my ceiling, and even if I have, its on me to break that ceiling.

Starcraft243ver2 votes

The problem is not with the matchmaking but with the people.

There's a shift in people's mentality once they reach D4, so you are in games with :

  • The guys who reached their objective and now they dont care about climbing anymore, so they just play a game a month to not be demoted
  • The guys who wants to keep climbing
  • The guys who are elo boosting an account
  • The eloboosted who just got their account back
Ragnaveil1 votes

Yeah, and thats going to remain a thorn in the side for anyone trying to climb until riot bans every elo boosted account, which will likely never happen.

Starcraft243ver1 votes

They are doing it but they do it just before the end of season's reward.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Which again, isn't hopeful. They need to fix the lp gains in diamond to be less grindy. Leave that and the filtering to Masters and Grandmaster with their limited promotion slots and higher quality games.

Farm With Jayce3 votes

I entered D4 2 days ago, got to D2 in 1 day, went to bed then hoped back on and went back down to D4. Diamond is all about who is autofilled and who isnt

roughvan2 votes

League is changing, every year it is like playing a new game (new meta). Sometimes the champion you play can be really strong while in another meta it will be the weakest.

I play most jungle champions for the reason that i want to play something currently good and to be able to counter pick.

No matter the champion you should be able to climb up to masters or even grandmaster if you are dedicated enough. Check the streamer Riste for example, he mains Garen and his highest rated account is masters, there are many similar one tricks. The reason why people that one trick can climb is that they can focus on everything other then their champion, they have him mastered so they can focus on team fights, map awareness, warding and map control and as a top laner managing your teleport.

Your teammates or single games shouldn't matter that much, you should just accept that they can all be bad and feed that way you won't get as tilted or annoyed. Also their skill doesn't affect you that much as you'll only be playing that one game with them. If you pay attention to yourself and improve you'll climb while they most likely won't. My current mentality is just looking at the reality and seeing it how it is, no matter how many games you lose in a row or start a new account if you have a skill of d3 player, you'll reach that rank again and you shouldn't pay attention to your teammates if you can accept this view.

If you can really put up with it as i said before pick one champion that you'll main and maybe have a secondary or third for your lane at most so you can pick something else if your main is going to be a tough matchup. This is proven to be the fastest way to climb, i just don't find it fun and i like to counter pick.

EDIT: Even if you want to get into LCS, you know that if you one trick and get to play with the best players, you'll learn much faster, then you can expand your champion pool, at least that's how i see it.

Ragnaveil2 votes

Yeah, and I originally had a pool of 4 champs besides Sylas. Aatrox got gutted pending rework, Kayle's been a mixed result, the only two that haven't had too many issues is Vlad and some cases Olaf. The issue is how passive toplane balance is right now. The champs I put effort into learning for the second year in a row have gotten heavily nerfed after something unintentionally breaks them or breaks things that destroy their core principles. Speaks true for Sylas and Aatrox. And with normals being not helpful when trying to learn new champs, how else am I gonna fix the gaping hole?

Meserion1 votes

I honestly miss old Aatrox, I guess I'm the only buy he was legitimately fun and definitely had a role to play. The new version feels slow and clunky. The old one was designed to be mobile with good gank potential.

roughvan1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, and I originally had a pool of 4 champs besides Sylas. Aatrox got gutted pending rework, Kayle's been a mixed result, the only two that haven't had too many issues is Vlad and some cases Olaf. The issue is how passive toplane balance is right now. The champs I put effort into learning for the second year in a row have gotten heavily nerfed after something unintentionally breaks them or breaks things that destroy their core principles. Speaks true for Sylas and Aatrox. And with normals being not helpful when trying to learn new champs, how else am I gonna fix the gaping hole?

After you play a few normal games with a champion, i only play one and then hop onto ranked. You can't learn much from normals even though you may lose some ranked games does it really matter? as i have said before you are as good as you are, lp or current rank don't mean much as you'll still have the same skill. You may feel bad for other players but that's just how game is, they'll get where they deserve to be and one game won't affect them that much.

Ragnaveil2 votes

Issue is, in Dia+ LP gains are terrible meaning every win holds importance and every loss sets you 3 steps back. With a forced 50/50 winrate system, it becomes nearly impossible to get out by yourself. You'd have to pray or something. I've always tried telling myself after a loss, "Dont worry, you'll win the next one" but after some point I gave up because realistically, my chances were not getting any better. I had these same gripes since last year, but I didn't talk about it because I was hopeful the ranked change would fix this issue. Sadly it didn't, and it feels like it got progressively worse. I don't blame SapMagic for this issue, the fault is the system itself.

astralwit1 votes

{quoted}

Issue is, in Dia+ LP gains are terrible meaning every win holds importance and every loss sets you 3 steps back. With a forced 50/50 winrate system, it becomes nearly impossible to get out by yourself. You'd have to pray or something. I've always tried telling myself after a loss, "Dont worry, you'll win the next one" but after some point I gave up because realistically, my chances were not getting any better. I had these same gripes since last year, but I didn't talk about it because I was hopeful the ranked change would fix this issue. Sadly it didn't, and it feels like it got progressively worse. I don't blame SapMagic for this issue, the fault is the system itself.

Or maybe you're at the skill level you belong? Isn't that the most likely explanation for a 50% win rate and the feeling that you're coinflipping? There are plenty of junglers (even in the nerfed state) doing very well and even climbing solo unranked to Grandmasters in a week like IWD did recently.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Idk, it feels like I can do much better, its just that D4 (aka old D5) is uber coinflip that its super hard to have a winning team for more than 3 games. I could try to influence the map, but by the time I can do it, my botlane would already have inted 3 to 6 kills in lane. Junglers have it easier than toplaners even in a nerfed state because the champ pool is very confined and its tier ranked. You practically go down the tier list and pick whoever is the highest left open. Top is far from that due to the massive quantity of champions that can be played meta or not.

astralwit1 votes

{quoted}

Idk, it feels like I can do much better, its just that D4 (aka old D5) is uber coinflip that its super hard to have a winning team for more than 3 games. I could try to influence the map, but by the time I can do it, my botlane would already have inted 3 to 6 kills in lane. Junglers have it easier than toplaners even in a nerfed state because the champ pool is very confined and its tier ranked. You practically go down the tier list and pick whoever is the highest left open. Top is far from that due to the massive quantity of champions that can be played meta or not.

I don't play much top but the jg pool is actually pretty diverse atm. It's better than it has been in a long time. Off meta picks still suffer a bit but the gap is narrower.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Diverse is a...interesting way to put it. It brought diversity in terms of how many viable jgs there are, but the ones winning the most are level 2 gankers/skirmishers. Tank jgs suffer due to the lack of exp.

Sodeb Lacudomite2 votes

So I relate to this but at a different elo.

In season 6, I was high plat on my main account (Tundra Hunter on OCE server), with 61% winrate on Warwick (191 wins, 124 losses).

On the same season (6) and server (OCE), I played some Warwick on a alternate account (Ir Sun Smurf on OCE server). I played my high plat Warwick in Bronze, had 11/4/8 KDA (I would get all objectives and snowball all lanes), yet had a 27% winrate.

TD;LR I had a much better winrate in high plat than in bronze. Why? Because low elo is messy and random.

And since then, each season I notice the same thing: I struggle much more in low elo (at the beginning of the season after placements) than at higher elo.

I transferred to EUW this season, and this has reset my ELO from plat to bronze. Climbing back has been a struggle in bronze and silver. Right now I'm gold 1 after 300 games and winning is becoming easier and easier. Not because I am improving. But because match-making put me against stronger opponents, sure, I don't mind that, but especially with better teammates, and that is sooo helpful to convert objectives and snowballed lanes into a win.

Kattzy2 votes

Not sure why you are so against duoing. Guaranteeing one other person on your team is not a flamer or a feeder in a queue literally named solo/DUO seems like the most surefire way to increase your win rate. I know you care about your individual skill, but when it comes down to it, this is a team game, so if you can pick one teammate, why wouldn't you? You're just handicapping yourself.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Yeah, and im doing it as I explained, you don't just get good or win off of teamplay alone, there are some solo aspects you gotta do. The thing that came off as "against duoing" was just merely my feelings about it. That doesn't mean I wont do it. Tell me, what are the odds im gonna find someone in D4 that wants to try and make a run for pro play? Not much as time has gone by imo.

dunder kill1 votes

Part of the issue with diamond is it's such a tiny fraction of the playerbase that there isn't enough room to move people around. The skill difference between low and high diamond is massive because Diamond 1+ is like the top .3% of people. This results in a diminishing returns where you have to improved a shit ton to move very little

Ragnaveil1 votes

Right, but how do they expect to have fresh faces in Masters+ that worked their asses off for it when the returns are so terrible you practically have to one trick and find a duo. For someone that wants to try and make it into the LCS, I wont be able if im forced to one trick due to the rules for Scouting Grounds.

dunder kill1 votes

Grandmasters players generally don't have any issue getting back to grandmasters. You don't get into LCS just by being a fresh face. You get there by earning it

Ragnaveil1 votes

Yeah, and im trying to earn it, but as it stands, the type of player I am is better in Masters+ than Diamond and below based on how things pan out (from what I can tell, the truth would be clear if I was there and observing how im doing in that environment). Grandmasters(aka old masters) probably duo to get up there for the most part (and usually get placed the highest you can get) to avoid being dragged down. Other things is that some are famous, so if you feed in their presence, you'll get humiliated, therefore gives people incentives to play a lot better than in normal circumstances.

Ulquiorra01231 votes

Take this from someone who has continually climbed up and down the ladder: "If you want to see consistent success in solo queue, adapt to the meta and don't make excuses just because you don't want to."

Just because you don't like to play Riven and Jax doesn't mean you can't play them. Spam them, you will win games. Solo Queue isn't killing your chances, its your champion pool, or lack there of. Just play meta, putting yourself at a hindrance from the getgo because you refuse to play what is good is on you, not Riot. Play well and get out, simple.

To tackle your last point, to beat someone on your skill level with a champion you don't play much, is an achievement. So yeah, it has alot to do with personal skill. Winning the 1v1 matchup, or rather 2v2, you know how it is, is a testament to personal skill. All these excuses, but I have one piece of advice only:

Play meta. You are at a level where you are only hindering yourself not doing so. I literally spammed Vi from D3 up to D1 now because its meta, not because I like playing it. And no, your quality of game will not change when you hit D3, not at all.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Okay, so im expected to play Riven or Jax with little to no experience with them and expected to be able to win every single match just like a expert of those champs can. Jungle on one hand only deals with who is the best jungler, and goes down by tier and availability in the match. Top on the other hand has almost hundreds of matchups and you cant really learn all of them because they will change periodically and sporadically on the flip of a dime.

I also mentioned in my post that the champ pools I had last season to s6. There were meta champs in that pool. The big difference this season is that my entire pool got nerfed to irrelevancy save Aatrox (Somewhat) and Sylas. I had about 10 to 15 champs in my champ pool in seasons before s8. Now i've lost almost all of them in less than a season for two seasons in a row. For toplane pools, its not just a simple -slot this here- pool. Each champ you try to pick up you are forced to consider hidden counters, their odd playstyle, and several other things when other lanes barely have to deal with that since they fight the same champs over and over regarding meta, and the pools are relatively the same.

Also, kinda doesn't help when once you get above 50% winrate, the matchmaking will try to pair you with people you cant carry due to the forced 50/50. I've played meta all season and im going nowhere because god forsake toplane gets balanced correctly for one season. The last "non" meta pick i've played was Shen several games ago. No offence, but climbing in top is very different than jungle, especially when mmr dictates.

GayFluffyUnicorn6 votes

Ofc it is on riot. Old riot wanted to everyone to be able to play anything and climb if they were skilled enough.

New riot wants you to pay for their meta champs to win.

How long has kha zix been disgustingly broken? Graves already buffed back into the game? And those are just two examples.

There was a time where skill actually mattered sadly those times are over.

And what is the point of playing a game were you can only play what you don't enjoy to climb? That is not a game that is dogshit.

Bloodrage Shadow1 votes

I'm in plat 4 and feel this so much. I mainly play Nasus/Darius/Yorick this patch and really feel I'm at the mercy of my bot lane and/or jungler. It doesn't matter if I'm hard stomping my lane when my bot lane doesn't know how to not die every time they respawn.

It doesn't help that when I do win I get no more than 16 LP each win but lose at least 18 each loss lmao. This has been going on since the reset even though plat isn't affected by it.

I understand there are games where I could have played better; but in those games where I feel I played the best I could and still lose because of someone else borderline inting because they aren't carrying the game is beyond frustrating.

I agree so much with your comment about top lane. If you aren't playing FOTM or some broken pos champ you significantly lower your chances of winning (rip tanks lol).

Ragnaveil1 votes

Exactly. Other lanes can play FOTM or something broken because their pools are much smaller, meaning you'll have experience with most of the pool, and will be able to slot champions in and out. Top on the other hand is a nightmare. You have no idea if the enemy will pick meta or not, and some not meta champs are heavy counters that you cant do a thing to change the situation.

As Ghostcrawler put it on WIRED's interview with him, "Just pick a subset number of champions to play and just only play those in ranked." Guess i'm just unlucky that the champs in my pool that I took time to learn and like playing just had to be nerfed directly or indirectly all at the same time.

oortoomeebreesuu1 votes

As somebody who is forced to regularly first pick top lane, screw top lane.

Serika Zero1 votes

Urgot has about an year now of being very strong. Sylas is still very powerful despite nerfs.

Hashinshin (even tho I dislike him), played Olaf and Kled to high diamond. and now is apparently spamming hecarim.

Vlad is still a thing. Had a game where the Plat 4, played full ap malphite top. And even tho I ganked/roamed top and help him get a kill on j the enemy Vlad top (me mid). He feed vlad 2-3 times and I literally couldn't engage on the enemy team without dying.

My point is: there's still top laners who are/were viable for a long time time. and not just Jax and Riven. your personal skill on top, in my opinion is how you take the advantage you obtain on top and spread it across the map. that can be pressure and global gold from split push. Strong team fight presence. Powerful engage. Support for your carry. Etc.

Ragnaveil2 votes

And how am I gonna influence the map if I have to deal with keeping my laner from winning, and stopping my botlane from inting in every fight they pick. I'd have to split myself in two for that to work.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Urgot may be strong, but can he ideally carry a team 1v5 like Vlad, Riven, or Jax? Not really, because hes very immobile when his E is down. Olaf and Kled require cheesing your opponent to make a impact. Fail and you wont exist for the rest of the match. I try to refrain from picking stuff like that in volatile matchups. I played Aatrox when he was at his "strongest" (still couldn't carry games half the time due to his kit having inconsistent damage).

Nevrankroaton1 votes

I want to improve, but it just feels like all my efforts go to waste if i'm not playing something broken or flavor of the patch for toplane.

One day, I wish I could make a long post for league players that complain about this.

Since I play this game, strong champion always offered more agency/possibility to win than the ones who were weak. And the higher the level of competition is, the more the weakness of a character can be harder to overcome and the strength of an other can prove to be even more valuable.

When you play something weak or something that you don't master, YOU are the one putting yourself at a disadvantage. It isn't the game fault if you make theses choices, you can ask the game to do a better balancing but in the end, you are the one picking X champion and doing X actions, not the game itself.

Shouldn't I be feeling that I need to still improve? Yes, but with the quality of matches i've gotten more times than not its teamplay stuff I can't change or improve on, not solely my personal skill. I could play a match, win toplane, try to affect the game, and still lose because one lane didn't want to improve and try to play better, and that lane would cancel out my influence. Its not a one time occurring thing, this has been occurring constantly in my matches.

Your issue is that you don't take your loosing match well, and the reason is simple:

It is a team game. You doing very good doesn't mean you will equal someone being very bad. And it can go both ways, someone being bad will sometime not equal the other person doing very good. In a team game, you don't have all agency by yourself. Accept it, it is the game. Play overwatch and see how it feel to have a bad team, trust me, you will be FAR FAR FAR more miserable than in league.

If you want to feel good and strong by your own merit, play solo based games like FPS or fighting games. Trust me, it is awesome and it will reward what you want to be rewarded. But in league, in team based games, it doesn't work like that.

This is the worst part and the reason why I haven't gotten anywhere past D4/D5 in the last two season.

No, it certainly is another issue. People who are at master level suceed to go there. People who are at granmaster level suceed to go there. Etc etc.

I don't say that you talking about your role lack of agency or X champion being weak is bad per see. But you clearly have others issues that is keeping you from climbing, and they are on you.

I can be a lot of things, from making suboptimal build (yes, even in diamond 4) to make bad plays mechanically to lack of match-up knowledge to being stubborn toward how you want to play Vs how it should be... It can be that you don't know how to translate your lead well with your champion, it can be that your main champions are difficult to carry with because of their requirement, it can be that you tilt too easily or focus too much on your teammates instead of yourself, it can be that you don't give lane priority when it could help your junglers, it could be that you don't make some TP play when it is possible, it could be that you don't punish your opponent mistake or map decisions (warding, stealing camp, roaming, doing herald, etc).

astralwit1 votes

Look up your team/comp, dodge more troll games.

50% is pretty normal for someone at their appropriate skill level. You have to ask yourself where the win rate is coming from. For example, let's say picking for the comp. is 5%, counterpicking out of the picks that work for the comp adds another 2.5%, selecting a good comp and dodging trolls is another 5%, mechanical outplays is x%, understanding jungle pathing and not dying to ganks is y% etc.

Ragnaveil2 votes

Yeah, i'd do that more if dodging lp didn't scale 3x per dodge on the same day.

Nik Nikerson1 votes

Like, I'm not trying to be a dick here, and clearly you are a better player than myself, but is it possible that you've just hit your ceiling? It isn't possible to indefinitely climb. At some point you're going to either reach the highest spot, or you're going to peak.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Idk, it doesn't feel like I have. Even in my losses, I feel like I can improve and climb, its just D4 has the worst inconsistency for matches for any high ELO from Plat to Masters+.

5StackUltOneShot1 votes

Here here

Evidence1 votes

just stop playin rank like i did and play with ur friend,this game changed and for thew worse.

Ragnaveil1 votes

And with what friends? Last I checked I got ditched by my so called "friends". Ranked is the only thing keeping me playing this game at the moment.

Evidence1 votes

well i was fortunate enough after all there years i mee a few people who i still speak on skype or real life. As fellow veteran to another. i think u will understand this cuz now ranked doesnt matter to me anymore cuz i learned to play this game,this game atm is a clownfiesta dont get caught slaughter aram fest so ye. I have told many random people on forum and they are all like what do u know,they being ignorant that what. This game will be played until u have a job then u have less and elss time untill u decided its time to move on and work on stmh new,i will always read the lore,but that it. i was once a diamond i saw it,meh... i dont wana be a pro or a stimer,etc.. i m gamer and i wana play games and enjoy riding bikes with people,that sums it up hope u have a nice day and if u want u can add me on euw-UbiMonk if u want to hang out,bye!

xxgabrielxx171 votes

yall really complaining about diamond while im stuck in silver having 2-4 trolls every game... i am consist the best player on my team yet no matter how good i play i cant carry bot lanes that combine for 2/30... or jungle mids that go 1/9 each and thats before the 15 min mark

Ragnaveil1 votes

Okay, but how good are you at the game? You'll be able to climb in Silver, just takes time. Diamond+ on the other hand has throttled LP gains, making it a game of inches that the player will likely lose more times than not. I can't and won't judge you, and i'm much aware of the issues in low elo. You could practically say you get different issues once you cross that plat threshold.

xxgabrielxx171 votes

i cant even get to gold. ive lost promos 2x now because every game i play is 2-4 trolls a game.... at least ppl in diamond get there because they play..... they dont just int from the beginnning and throw the games

Madsin251 votes

Unless you have big dreams to go pro(which you might have) there is no reason to climb higher, honestly.

To much stress for what it's worth if you are not gonna use it to bring home the dough.

Ragnaveil1 votes

I do, it just doesn't help that a majority of people I play with are either: ELO Boosted or made it to Diamond and quit playing seriously and plays a ranked game once a month to not decay.

SirHydro1 votes

If someone has their hand in an open flame, and complains its hot and their hand is burning....take your hand out of the fire. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If ranked is so miserable, stop playing it. I don't understand what the problem is, and why people keep doing something that upsets them. Are you a masochist? Stop.

Ragnaveil2 votes

Then what else do you expect me to play? Normals with no friends? Normals with such abysmal matchmaking? Yeah, that's totally gonna be more fun than Ranked and less stressful.

kvakovich1 votes

i am toplane player in plat and i dont know bcs if i lose the top = lose if i win i kidna dont feel i can do something with the game i think we need some hard tank meta again

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