Why does tristana buster shot knock back both the target and anything within 200 units of it?

Critkeeper·Sep 13, 2017·8 votes·969 views

its not like she needs it, she'd be fine if she only knocked back the target.

24 Comments

Weiss GuertenaSep 13, 20175 votes

So you want her to have a worse version of Vayne's E as her ultimate?

nm1010Sep 13, 20174 votes

Tristana has waveclear, range, more mobility, and an attack speed steroid on Vayne. Why exactly does she need a better E?

TheHappyReaperzSep 13, 20171 votes

Why not?

nm1010Sep 13, 20174 votes

Because then she wouldn't be able to disengage multiple threats at once on top of having one of the best escapes in the game that also has an intrinsic reset mechanic?

SEKAISep 13, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Tristana has waveclear, range, more mobility, and an attack speed steroid on Vayne. Why exactly does she need a better E?

It's still an ultimate regardless, it needs ultimate grade power. Only exception is when champs are deliberately designed with no ultimate or that its intended power is spread across the rest of their kit, but Tris isn't one of those champs.

Overtuned overall as a champ or not, you can't just turn an ultimate into a normal spell because the said champ may or may not have balance issues atm. It's better to just find the real problem and nerf that instead.

nm1010Sep 13, 20173 votes

it needs ultimate grade power.

And it gets it in the form of more base damage and the fact she can sneak an auto in after using it when Vayne can't. She also knocks them back nearly twice the distance that Vayne does...

SEKAISep 13, 20173 votes

{quoted}

And it gets it in the form of more base damage and the fact she can sneak an auto in after using it when Vayne can't. She also knocks them back nearly twice the distance that Vayne does...

Look, first of all, direct comparison like this isn't how balance work.

Secondly, even going with this, you ignored the fact Vayne's E has larger target distance than Tris's R (not the knockback range, the target distance), Vayne's E is obviously on a much shorter CD than Tris's R, Vayne's E could stun if the knocked target hit a terrain while Tris's R couldn't, Vayne's E also apply a stack of Silver Bolt to boast her already strong dueling potential while Tris's R do not have self-synergising potential like that. And this is between a normal spell and an ultimate.

So yeah, if we wanna play this game, we can do this all day.

nm1010Sep 13, 20172 votes

He made a direct comparison, I am comparing these as a response. I was talking about their overall kit at first, citing tristana's overloaded kit as reason she could lose a situational part of her ult. You are acting as if you are purposely hitting multiple people everytime you use it...

Vayne's E has larger target distance

To use it aggressively, Tristana's R is a disengage tool or an execute which are rarely used at max range anyway.

Vayne's E could stun if the knocked target hit a terrain while Tris's R couldn't

But Trist does knockback for twice the distance.

Tris's R do not have self-synergising potential like that

She can auto them while they are flying backwards which I would call self synergizing

SEKAISep 13, 20173 votes

{quoted}

He made a direct comparison, I am comparing these as a response. I was talking about their overall kit's at first, citing tristana's overloaded kit as reason she could lose a situational part of her ult. You are acting as if you are purposely hitting multiple people everytime you use it...

To use it aggressively, Tristana's R is a disengage tool or an execute which are rarely used at max range anyway.

But Trist does knockback for twice the distance.

She can auto them while they are flying backwards which I would call self synergizing

I don't know man, you're thinking that Tris's ulti is literally only okay if it has the same amount of power budget as Vayne's E or even lower than that.

Well it doesn't, because it's an ulti while the other isn't. So of course Tris's ulti is going to be at least better overall, and if our back and forth has proved anything, it's that the power gap isn't that far off either.

I do not feel Tris's R is anywhere near the center of a problem, in that if she's got problem it's probably not in her R, personally.

nm1010Sep 13, 20173 votes

I don't know man, you're thinking that Tris's ulti is literally only okay if it has the same amount of power budget as Vayne's E or even lower than that.

The fact that you think these 2 abilities are anywhere close to the same power even if this nerf went through is worrying for your balance opinions.

Well it doesn't, because it's an ulti while the other isn't. So of course Tris's ulti is going to be at least better overall, and if our back and forth has proved anything, it's that the power gap isn't that far off either.

Tristana's ult offers much, much more than condemn in a defensive scenario and about the same in an offensive scenario.

I do not feel Tris's R is anywhere near the center of a problem, in that if she's got problem it's probably not in her R, personally.

She has a lot of problems that stem from her being overloaded. This all started after Riot started just adding interactions in her kit that didn't need to be there (like w adding stacks to e, e refreshing w, the r auto combo, her w making her cc immune if buffered right). She needs to be strong in a scenario, not universally have a bunch of small interactions in her kit that do nothing but inflate her power.

If Riot decides to keep the R hitting multiple people at the cost of something else that is fine, but the point is that she currently just has far too many things she can do.

lil kodaSep 13, 20172 votes

you just dont get it, do you lol

nm1010Sep 13, 20171 votes

Please enlighten me oh great Tristana player on how skillful you are at using your ultimate.

Weiss GuertenaSep 13, 20172 votes

Because it's an ultimate compared to a basic ability. Why shouldn't it be better? If this kind of change passed through (and thankfully it won't), comparison between said basic ability and this ultimate ability:

Buster Shot vs. Condemn +More range

-No AD scaling -No stun on collision -6 times the cooldown -Takes up an utimate slot

Yes, Tristana is overtuned, Yes, ADC and their 4 bitches meta sucks. But changes like this definitely aren't the way to go.

nm1010Sep 13, 20173 votes

Let's try again

Buster Shot vs. Condemn +More range +Can auto once after using +Knocks back twice as far +Higher base damage +Damage is non conditional

-No AD scaling -No stun on collision -6 times the cooldown -Takes up an utimate slot

Tristana isn't overtuned she is overloaded (well she may be both, but she is certainly overloaded).

Weiss GuertenaSep 13, 20171 votes

Overloaded? I don't think that word means what you think it means. Tristana is actually fairly straightforward:

-Simple passive -Q is a simple steroid: press Q, get stats -W does damage and slows, but no one sane uses it for that past laning; so it's just a repositioning tool -E has a useful passive but is otherwise a pretty straightforward ability -R is a peeling tool, plain and simple

"Overloaded" is someone like Ekko or Lee, where every ability does 3 different things and requires writing a novel to list every tool they have at their disposal.

nm1010Sep 13, 20171 votes

Overloaded? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

All of her abilities have too many random interactions, her e shouldn't reset her w. Her R shouldn't allow an auto to proc e on a target flying away. She honestly shouldn't get the bigger e size when procing it on towers, she just has so many tacked on interactions that her identity as a champion is no longer tower taking threat and is more reset, late game carry, lane bully, tower taking, teamfighting, dueling, high mobility, self peeling threat.

-Simple passive -Q is a simple steroid: press Q, get stats -W does damage and slows, but no one sane uses it for that past laning; so it's just a repositioning tool -E has a useful passive but is otherwise a pretty straightforward ability -R is a peeling tool, plain and simple

Now with all interactions listed

-Simple passive. (that increases her and her abilities ranges) -Q is a simple steroid: press Q, get stats -W does damage and slows, but no one sane uses it for that past laning; so it's just a repositioning tool (And stacks e, and resets on kills/assists, and cancels cc, AND resets on e proc) -E has a useful passive but is otherwise a pretty straightforward ability (That takes turrets in seconds, has a bigger hit box on turret proc, grants her free waveclear + harass, resets w, can be used with r for a multitude of combos with w reset) -R is a peeling tool, plain and simple (That has fairly high base damage, allows her to auto the target after use, coupled with w and e reset mechanic makes her almost undivable, can knock a target with e on them into their team for aoe)

Weiss GuertenaSep 14, 20171 votes

"All tacked-on interactions" you listed are really just one interaction: W detonating max-stack E, which is a high-risk, high-reward play. E has a bigger size when procing on tower simply because tower is a fat target: it has to be bigger to damage anything other than said tower.

W cancels CC? Are we even playing the same game? W is notorious for exactly the opposite: getting CC'd by something that hits your departure point.

And how in the seven hells is R having high base damage and allowing an auto after use (like every other fast projectile) a "tacked-on" interaction? Or passive increasing her and her abilities range - that's literally the only thing it does: exactly the opposite of being overloaded.

Considering that more than half of "interactions" you listed are just bullshit I think you should face the fact that you're wrong.

nm1010Sep 14, 20171 votes

W cancels CC? Are we even playing the same game?

And you're a Tristana player lol... Please educate yourself, it works on most cc in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZujeUJL_x6U

lil kodaSep 13, 20171 votes

i wouldnt say more mobility lol

nm1010Sep 13, 20171 votes

Tumble is (in terms of mobility) strictly a short range movement spell that you can use to chase or dodge skill shots. Tristana jump can gap close much better, cancel cc, go over walls, and has a reset mechanic.

BreakuSep 13, 20173 votes

to keep the people already near her target next to the bomb when it explodes

The DeckownerSep 13, 20171 votes

Rito thinks knocking back the fat frontline into the enemy backline for aoe cc is skillful.

WinTheWarOnPantsSep 13, 20171 votes

It's a ranged LeeSin ult that doesn't do dmg(or root them in place prior to displacement or stun them after). I mean, it needs to do something other than knock back one person lol.

MorganFreemanBotSep 13, 20171 votes

Rank 1 Darius R only deals 30 more damage than rank 1 of Olaf E. Rank 3 of R vs rank 5 of E has a 50 health advantage.

Darius rank 1 also has a 120 second cooldown, vs a 12 second cooldown. Maxed it's 80 and 8 respectively.

Anyway, the point here is that saying "X ultimate is too much like Z ability" in a vaccuum is a shitty argument. Darius and Olaf fulfill the same role, in the same lane (well, Olaf can jungle), and Olaf's E is extraordinarily similar to Darius' R... But I think we all know which champ is reviled around here.