Can we change how Morde's Shield gain is working the same way Swain's R does?

Malicious Metal·Aug 15, 2016·81 votes·2,872 views

The prime problem with Mordekaiser's passive is that it scales DIRECTLY on damage output, making stacking magic resist against him highly effective but also making him somewhat feast or famine due to his reliance on shield gain to actually survive. Changing how his shield gain works to a flat amount rather than the actual damage dealt like they did with Swain during the mage update would help make it a lot less unhealthy in terms of feast and famine and flattening the curve between fed Morde's shield gains and those of him when behind.

Because one of Morde's biggest shortcomings right now is his lack of solid fallback pattern since his entire tankiness is bound to his damage output.

Just a quick shower thought though.

63 Comments

SelegunAug 15, 20168 votes

His E makes up for this by giving percentages of his max shield. As long as you can hit 2+ people and perhaps a few minions the shield should fill every time E is cast.

Malicious MetalAug 15, 20168 votes

Yes, there aren't a lot of people maxing E though and a nice chunk of shield when trying to fight through the opposing frontline would really help. Still, riot has already stated that tankiness tied directly to damage output is something rather tricky to balance, hence they changed how Swain's R functions

SelegunAug 15, 20162 votes

So far I've been getting away with keeping E at one point unless my lane opponent is particularly oppressive like a Lucian or Caitlyn. I've been dabbling alot with my runes and builds as well and am finding that investing lots of gold into armor and MR instead of health is actually making me last longer in fights.

Malicious MetalAug 15, 201612 votes

Lucian and Caitlyn are your worries? Mine are only Quinn and Graves #/#Toplanetroubles/

IRyzeForNidaleeAug 15, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jow7vf2O,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-15T22:22:57.773+0000)

Lucian and Caitlyn are your worries? Mine are only Quinn and Graves #/#Toplanetroubles/

Just dodge the ~~spear~~ game.

Tychusfindlay919Aug 16, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jow7vf2O,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-15T22:22:57.773+0000)

Lucian and Caitlyn are your worries? Mine are only Quinn and Graves #/#Toplanetroubles/

What about Darius ? I only have experience playing as the Darius in that matchup. From my experience, mordekaiser's pure melee kit and need to stick for all three Qs typically allows for easy noxian might procs. Also the stat check for darius is real.

Malicious MetalAug 16, 20161 votes

If you play against Darius enough you learn to play around his kit. I personally never outright lose lane against darius.

Managing bleed stacks, denying heals and playing very carefully usually helps.

What Is SmiteAug 16, 20161 votes

Get on the discord I need some Morde Tips for certain Match-ups

Small TiddiesAug 16, 20161 votes

I max e first as top lane morde.

SelegunAug 16, 20161 votes

Have any matchups you like going against up top? Akali was one of my favorite lanes but people quit playing her so I cant count on seeing her all that often to pick top any more.

Malicious MetalAug 16, 20161 votes

I see her a ton in my Diamond Games though. Makes picking Morde that much easier

Pierce The VealAug 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jow7vf2O,comment-id=000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-16T08:50:40.404+0000)

I see her a ton in my Diamond Games though. Makes picking Morde that much easier

Huh, as an Akali player, I always found morde to be a skill matchup. Is there something I'm missing here?

Malicious MetalAug 16, 20161 votes

How is it a skill matchup? Morde can't be bursted and he bullies melee assassins extremely hard. Low CD E poke, W heals, AOE to hit her in her shroud, low CD melee nuke and he builds really frigging tanky.

I have yet to lose against an Akali as Morde, the dude eats assassins for breakfast.

Pierce The VealAug 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jow7vf2O,comment-id=00010000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-16T10:06:48.823+0000)

How is it a skill matchup? Morde can't be bursted and he bullies melee assassins extremely hard. Low CD E poke, W heals, AOE to hit her in her shroud, low CD melee nuke and he builds really frigging tanky.

I have yet to lose against an Akali as Morde, the dude eats assassins for breakfast.

Then again I've been playing tank akali since season 3 so I'm not the standard akali. Triforce and shit like that, so my dps is actually pretty damn good, and I don't rely on burst. Furthermore, I tend to also not rely on my shroud, using it at most to prevent a third hit Q or slow Morde down.

Also, spell vamp runes akali is the bomb.

Small TiddiesAug 16, 20162 votes

I love picking Morde into teemo and nasus. Anyone who 1,2,3 picks them should be punished with trial by metal.

SelegunAug 16, 20161 votes

Teemo? Never had much luck with that one myself. How are you handling that matchup that lets you keep gim in check?

Small TiddiesAug 17, 20161 votes

Constantly casting w to heal up, E when he goes in to poke you, you should have a large enough shield to stop his poison and damage, and I run Cloth 4 pots. rip 13 health pot morde though.

SelegunAug 17, 20162 votes

Cool thanks.

All potion start was great. If I can buy one I should be able to hold one more lol

PoskeAug 16, 20161 votes

Wth people arent Maxing E on morde?

LeL in what division that happends?

E is the only interaction Morde has against good botlane.. Which is Morde main issue IMHO

I guess you could get away with maxing q against Darius in toplane or something

Jungle Lux GodAug 16, 20161 votes

According to champion.gg, people are maxing WQE on his top lane builds. That's also his most popular role.

People are only maxing E first in mid and jungle, and while Mordekaiser has a higher winrate in those roles those also have both smaller sample sizes and have only a 1% difference in win rate from his top lane, so it isn't a significant system.

KillstradoAug 16, 20161 votes

If I face melee qwe, if I face ranged wqe, but if that ranged has a brain ewq

BobIIIAug 16, 20161 votes

If there was an AP bruiser item with % magic defense shred, similar to black cleaver it wouldn't be as big of a deal. It would normalize Mordekaiser's damage output (along with his tankiness), rather than his success being contingent on the enemy team not building magic resist. Right now when the enemy stacks magic resist, mordekaiser's only option is void staff. The seems pretty unfair, considering ad bruisers like darius or renekton aren't forced to build a full offense item like last whisper when the enemies stack armor.

SelegunAug 16, 20161 votes

If I remember correctly they tried an item like that when abyssal scepter was getting reworked. It gave something like 5% shred stacking 5 times with an aoe burn. It never made it off pbe so I imagine a fair few champions could abuse the shit out of it.

BobIIIAug 16, 20161 votes

Yeah, black cleaver was also insanely broken on certain champs when it initially got reworked to have % armor shredding. Namely: Talon item 3071

It took a few patches, but now black cleaver is a versatile item that allows a lot of ad bruisers to be viable vs armor stacking teams.

An AP black cleaver would definitely require some re-balancing if it was implemented, but it would allow ap bruisers to have a viable build path that isn't completely shut down by magic resist stacking.

SelegunAug 16, 20161 votes

Considering how differently AD and AP items and champs are from each other I'd wager that we wont have anything close to Black Cleaver for ability bruisers. Witts End and Abyssal Scepter are the best we will have until Riot makes a new champ to break the mold for AP or rework the entire idea of AP in a preseason. Who knows though, we might get lucky and see an armor item give something like 15% magic pen

CC MustangAug 17, 20161 votes

I got teir 5 mord before they reworked him. In your opinion was the old mord better than the current one?

BobIIIAug 16, 20161 votes

His shield per champion hit scales with 3.75% max hp to 6.25% max hp (.15x.25 to .25x.25). Even with a full tank build, this translates to only a fraction of an adc auto attack lategame that can only be cast once every 5 seconds. Even if enemies champions are clumping up in a cone-shape in front of morde, the damage he's blocking from his e bonus shield compared to the total damage he's taking is almost neglible. This is partially why e max is pretty rare on mordekaiser players. It might be strong in early-mid teamfights, but it falls of super hard as soon as the enemy adc gets a few items.

SelegunAug 16, 20161 votes

Yeah, the shield will always feel alittle flimsy. 350ish armor seems to be the best spot to keep marksman from holding their rapid kill speed.

XeruonAug 15, 20163 votes

I wish the boards weren't so full of Morde because of you, but you aren't wrong.

Malicious MetalAug 15, 20166 votes

Don't worry, I'm writing up something for Evelyn at the moment.

CasterGilgameshAug 16, 20161 votes

so she is your new waifu? have you abandoned sona? are you now shipping Ev X Mord?

MavenSongAug 16, 20163 votes

No, hes more into VI now >.>

CasterGilgameshAug 16, 20161 votes

omg that reminds me of a fanfiction before league stopped being cannon for some reason i found it supper funny

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9379773/1/Steel-Revolution-Oldest

GULAG 4 UAug 16, 20162 votes

Imo this and they should change morde's W into pre rework version, it is unreliable af. Keep the heal, make it single target and give some ms, and make him the solo laner again. bot lane morde doesn't exist, balance him around top/mid.

Sahn UzalAug 16, 20162 votes

This, and inbuild Magic pen, are 2 things that Mordekaiser should have IMHO

SaiannaAug 16, 20162 votes

Imo it'd be easier to just ask for another rework and this time allow M.M to participate.

Less work for Riot M.M gets to write this in his CV to do Riots job, but better Morde gets attention he needs No more problems with Morde every half a week

Everyone wins.

Malicious MetalAug 16, 20162 votes

There'd be ONE major problem though. He'd actually be a popular champ and I won't be able to pick him every single game D:

PoskeAug 16, 20161 votes

Malicious metal are you sure this is how his shield works?

Because I remember reading during his rework that his shield ll scale diffrently aka ressistances wont matter

**I already think its scalling the way you want it to **

What morde needs is 500-600 range q ability and 500-600 range W ability

Then he could actually function at botlane

I suggest you to do some digging its your main after all

BârdAug 16, 20165 votes

I don't think you know what Morde players want.

None of us want to play Morde in botlane. We will if we have to, but we would much rather play him in mid or top (hell, jungle Morde is also pretty OK)

Small TiddiesAug 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The True Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jow7vf2O,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2016-08-16T02:10:33.277+0000)

I don't think you know what Morde players want.

None of us want to play Morde in botlane. We will if we have to, but we would much rather play him in mid or top (hell, jungle Morde is also pretty OK)

THIS. Morde is NOT. AN. A. D. C.

KillstradoAug 16, 20162 votes

I have the most fun with him bot lane but I main mid so that's where I play him more

SelegunAug 16, 20161 votes

After having some friends join the game Bot was the only role none of them could play. His rework dropped at just the right time so I took him bot whenever everone jumps on. Having that extra player controled minion to do your bidding feels better anyway. Lol

Battlecast SonaAug 16, 20161 votes

it doesn't.

What's being suggested: Every time you deal damage with spells, get x amount of shield (like Swain's R). This has nothing to do with the shield getting resistances, and the only spell that works this way is E (which gives a % of your shield for each champion hit). The rest of your shield gain is based purely on damage done.

I suggest you read the thread, you did post a comment after all.

DunkinNoobsAug 16, 20161 votes

While I'm not against a change like this, most of Morde's shield comes from his E anyway after they made it give a % of your shield for each champ hit (this is why you max E first now btw.)

VeraskaAug 16, 20161 votes

Didn't they do that back in season 1 and he was busted as a bruiser? I wasn't playing back then so correct me if I'm wrong, I like the idea tho it'd make him a bit more target agnostic and durable (which enforces his juggernaut identity)

CerealBoxOfDoomAug 16, 20161 votes

:( op forgot to mention what it was they did with swain's R

Photos of GhostsAug 16, 20161 votes

It'd be even better if it always gave him flat percentages of his shield, like his E does, so that he'd be less snowbally and more tankscalish

DecritAug 16, 20161 votes

I guess you are right but it is also a massive change to how he is played and balanced around. Maybe it is worth it but there is time and place for that. Like the past update >_>

MiraweaveAug 16, 20161 votes

Just lower the percentage and have it heal based on the premitigation damage.

TheOvermindAug 16, 20161 votes

Maybe changing it to flat would ensure standardized shield values instead of insane shields in lane vs no mr minions which is what always made him annoying to play agaidnt and then he gets tiny shields vs beefy mr stacked champions