Why do you keep "nerfing" champions...?

TurretBud··2 votes·442 views

Why are champions getting such useless nerfs? Your balance team needs to stop thinking so much and just freaking hit these champions with a damn nerf bat. Do you know how frustrating it is when you see changes on the patch list that seem like a champion might be toned down a bit and then turns out... They're equally as strong, if not more so? First you do this with Soraka like 5 times, then Zed, Ekko, Nidalee, Azir, and now Kindred as well... Like look at the change, if you can't tell if it's a good or bad thing, it is NOT a nerf. Nobody likes playing against any of these champions and you aren't hitting them where it hurts.

12 Comments

Warlord Zudane3 votes

Because you have no idea what "nerfing" means. A "nerf" means they are weakening a champion that is too strong. The updates are BALANCING champions. Sometimes they are too strong or weak in one aspect and it can be tuned slightly different for a better output without actually making the champion stronger or weaker.

And these changes have helped. They should take Ekko from unbeatable to dies every time or they didn't balance him. They should take Ekko from unbeatable and make him unbeatable-when-played-by-an-expert-but-beatable-with-challenge-from-anyone-else. It's tuning and balancing, not major changes. It is actually what makes the game pretty good, because we have a constantly evolving game with minor changes so things don't fall too far behind.

Defended3 votes

Riot doesnt fuckin nerf anything. They give it a cute little love tap. But if its not one of beloved champs. Example look at fizz. Been fucking making everyone rage for 2 years now, but they lower his E cd by 2 seconds even though 40% cdr of 2 seconds = 1.2 seconds. So in total his E has a 1 second higher cooldown at 40% cdr

Much fuckin nerf right

EcchiOtakuTM3 votes

That's the only nerf he needed calm down. He use to be able to just E hourglass E again now you have time to counter attack if he goes hourglass+max CDR not to mention he's extremely weak without his E if he uses it offensively he has no defense and if he saves it for defense he loses a major part of his damage.

It's the nerf he needed for the longest time, and the nerf to his passive makes him weaker in lane since he can't get free trade and run back before you can counter attack(like hecarim did)

If you want more of a heavy nerf you're basically overnerfing him due to your own personal rage but it was the right choice by rito.

Defended2 votes

{quoted}

That's the only nerf he needed calm down. He use to be able to just E hourglass E again now you have time to counter attack if he goes hourglass+max CDR not to mention he's extremely weak without his E if he uses it offensively he has no defense and if he saves it for defense he loses a major part of his damage.

It's the nerf he needed for the longest time, and the nerf to his passive makes him weaker in lane since he can't get free trade and run back before you can counter attack(like hecarim did)

If you want more of a heavy nerf you're basically overnerfing him due to your own personal rage but it was the right choice by rito.

So giving him a 1 second cooldown nerf on his E is going to ''balance'' fizz..?

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Yes since that's the main nerf being asked for why would it not?

His power is budgetted mostly into E nothing need anything major but just a short 2 second CD increase which they finnally did now his max cdr hourglass tactic is punishable since he doesn't have both an offense and defense skill but just an offensive since he can be attacked after hourglass.

You may think it's a joke but it's litterally all he needed.

Jaygo411 votes

Because honestly so many champs have gotten buffed that the relative power for the top champions is that much higher than their counterparts. Nerfs do need to be done over buffs a lot of times, and this is one of them

TurretBud1 votes

Not sure if you read anything but the title, I'm complaining about the types of nerfs Riot has been using recently.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Mostly because very small changes can be very impactful. Minor changes (such as minor reductions to base damage or stats) can significantly impact a champion throughout the game in ways that are not immediately obvious to much of the community.

Honestly, I've felt that many of Riot's recent balance changes (i.e. especially how they nerfed Tank Ekko and Kindred) were spot-on and I'm willing to trust them to handle them competently.

The main issue with Tank Ekko was always his stickiness; once he got on you, you couldn't escape. These nerfs (while they took a little while) addressed that perfectly.

The main issue with Kindred was her early dueling power letting her dominate most of her opponents in 1v1 fights and letting her invade with ease. The increased cooldown to her Q early helped with that significantly.

There was an instance in which changes were scheduled for a champion (I think it was Vladimir) and announced in the patch notes but they forgot to include them in the patch.

Their win-rate dropped several percent and people started complaining about how the nerfs were too harsh and how they felt week now when no actual change had been made.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

First and foremost the mistake and misconception a lot of players especially those being fueled by rage make is nerfs are to make a champion useless. They are only to make a champion weaker but still just as viable (Unless it's an unintended role which should have never happened especially if it's unhealthy like tank ekko). Now while riot has made some horrible balancing choices such as olaf'd(never want this to EVER happen), irelia'd(This nerf pattern is by far the best since it's slowly toning down although in some champion cases it's obvious what needed the nerf and it turns into a reverse skarner situation, skarner'd (Which while I was fearful it didn't happen to vlad where they kept buffing the wrong points till buffing the right one then have to nerf it hard), sejuani'd (The 2nd worst nerf type where they nerf users of something then nerf what they use essentially the main point and logic of your useless nerf debate), and while i'm glad it hasn't happened again teemo'd (when he got his shroom bounces the duration was being halved which was being called a buffed at first but more took notice that it was actually a nerf).

Now I do like irelia'd type nerfing which is what's currently happening I'll talk about a few specific champs.

Soraka- I'm not talking about this for long first and foremost the grievous wound change was a mistake but while I say that I'm with riot on trying that out it did give good feedback on more utility supports. While it might have seemed like useless nerfs which it was since grievous wounds came back(hmm in a way soraka was sejuani'd she was abusing grievous wound being gone to her and then it came back xD)

Zed- Seems like after shortly talking about soraka you think I'd be against the QSS change too however I fully agree with it first and foremost grabbing a MR item doesn't counter an AD. The nerfs zed got so far are actually the proper ones though where he's rewarded less for hitting a single shuriken which anyone can do but given more for landing multiple which a lot of zed have been talking about for quite some time. Not saying he's fine now but that lone was the proper change. The real non-rage fueled nerf that zed needs though is his passive no longer working on winions and his slow moved from his on-demand AoE shadow to his passive which I've been asking for even before the qss removal. Now enough about my thoughts on where zed needs nerfing. Zed isn't extremely OP or broken to need hard nerfs he's just the same assassin he always has been and while people may not want to admit his weaknesses he does have them and qss was not one of them. Sure you can make cases of you were able to 1v1 zed or zed couldn't dive you in the middle of your team but first even a duelist adc shouldn't be going alone and second if your team let zed dive the adc without peeling that's the team's error.

QSS did nothing to most recurring case of how zed interacts with the enemy team where he harasses and just uses ulti to gap close but was used for the things less appealing like all-ins which shouldn't have happened in the first place. I know this post isn't strictly about zed or QSS but nerfing in general but I feel the qss change helped promote a bit more team play in the game and while zed does need nerfing what he's gotten so far isn't "useless" per say.

Ekko- from his release and I'm ashamed I didn't see it but ekko should have NEVER had his W as an assassin. Riot literally removed stuns from eve and silences from assassins and even said they didn't want multiple or reliable hard CCs or CCs that prevent counter attacks on assassins (Fizz kinda tethers towards this which I'll say below but since it's his ulti and only his ulti I don't really emphasize.). Now the nerfs ekko got aren't useless if they continue this path but what they should have done is rework ekko's W into something else or remove 2 not 1 but TWO of ekko's slows and gave him other bonuses atm I consider 2+ low CD or reliable 40%+ slows to be perma-slow and I also consider perma-slow a hard-CC. Hence ekko is in fact an assassin who fully goes against riot's views on assassins as long as he has his zoning hard CC W or multiple slows, Not to mention since his W is MUCH easier to land as a tank ekko well you pretty much can figure out what happened since tank ekko been a thing since release and gotten extremely broken recently. Again I'm not fully saying the nerfs to ekko are useless if they continue this path but just the wrong nerfs.

Kindred- Sadly I never even tried kindred so I can't identify her power/strengths/weaknesses. And yes I'm not saying you're one who would just ignore someone just cause they play something majority don't like but I have played a lot of zed albeit it was mostly for a month or 2 after release I have played him.

Nidalee- Honestly those are definitely not useless nerfs they're targeting where she needed to be targeted overall it's just that they're irelia'ing it.

Azir- He's full blown being irelia'd it's not useless at all though exactly where he needs to be targeted while I'm not saying he deserves it since he's literally the hardest champion in the game even after how much I tried him I still can't get use to him personally. But hardest champion means nothing to those who already mastered him or still near the point of mastery.

You put kindred trice >.> WP bro WP.

TL;DR- Most of the champs currently who you think are being "uselessly nerfed" aren't they're just being irelia'd which is by far the best type of nerfing while it may be frustrating to see a champ you like being nerfed back to back or frustrated that they're not getting nerfed fast/heavy enough,it's better since you can slowly transition towards it, while I agree some things are the wrong nerfs (mostly only referring to ekko) I think if they continue nerfing ekko in that direction it MIGHT be good but I still think if ekko's recent nerfs were reverted and his W was rework they're be much better off then they can keep that said ability for a tank or a bruiser (bruisers are fighters I just REALLY hate the name change)

If I went off-track or you want something explained better reply btw I did type a lot and somewhat forgot the main point of your post for zed especially but I hope I addressed it correctly.

TurretBud1 votes

I'm mostly disappointed with the time it's taken for these champions to be toned down which I should've mentioned. I agree with a lot of your points, and I think several of the champions I've mentioned are currently close to where they should be, the outliers being Kindred, and Zed. I'm sure my opinion may be biased, as I do not play either of these champions. But after several games playing against a Kindred, I just feel as if it's impossible to duel her no matter how behind or ahead she is (even after her nerfs). Her ultimate is simply too strong, and I think it should be changed somehow. I feel completely helpless against it, even if I go into a fight full HP vs a red barred Kindred, she always seems to be able to come out on top. She's been a stupidly strong duelist since she was released, and being a ranged champion with endless kiting potential, it just doesn't feel fair at all. Even if she starts to lose a duel, she can either kite you out, or ultimate and wait for her team to collapse.

Lucian is another problem as well, it's been like 2-3 patches where he's had an absurdly high pick rate and I feel like his dash shouldn't be anywhere near as frequent as it is. It makes your flash pretty much completely meaningless when he's dashing all over the place.

I don't know... I just feel like with all of the fancy new champions with the crazy amount of mobility & invulnerability, play making has become so much more difficult and less meaningful if you're playing a champion without a dash or movement ability.

In general, play-making just feels... less rewarding, and I feel like winning your lane has so much less to do with individual skill and so much more to do with who's got the better jungler or more mobility. Invulnerability and mobility are really powerful, and I feel like they've been handed out to practically every new champion... I mean look at Malzahar's new passive, that's the most oppressive mechanic I've ever seen... It isn't fun to play against, and has no skill level required to be used effectively.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Oh yea I relooked at the kindred changes and I also looked upcoming lucian changes after the next patch.

Kindred-wise I THINK the next patch should fix her because it greatly lowers her early game but gives more into her high risk/reward marks. But I will not say it completely will although I don't usually have issues vs her cause of cassi but again since I don't play her I can't really give tips on facing her aside from having a good champ who has a powerful displacement skill or try to stay away from 1v1ing her and focus more on your teamfight unless you're a splitpusher then try to ward her jungle when you're free especially if your enemy laner is gone back to base and you have winions against their tower. Don't follow all that advice down to a T, I do play a mix of mid/top and can play the other 3 roles just as well but usually when I give advice it tends to be top/mid oriented.

Lucian the upcoming patch won't fix him IMO but the new changes for the patch after the next will cause the new black cleaver+youmuu build will be far weaker and his early game will be weaker too. I'm not going to automatically be right about it but it just feels it will fix him. However funnily it leads back to the talk it is a delayed fix since it's the patch after this one. xD

But yea I do see that their mobility can feel annoying (I respect the hell outta kalista players but it was the ONLY champ in league I hated for quite some time) but I do think they can be balanced without hitting it which hopefully I'm right will be fixed in the next 2 patches.

Lol while I agree my god I have this inner urge to blindly defend malz xD He's been one of my mains since god knows how long. While others may say they broke malz or malz is extremely weak I personally think yes he does need a few changes but this direction of malz was a good move. I listed plans on how to change malz here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/FQEIPwUA-the-proper-way-to-fix-malz?comment=0001

Was aiming more towards making his jungle and laning balanced by making it more consistent but weaker and since it's consistency would be heavily increase riot can actually nerf malz properly thus also lowering his ban rate cause my god is his jungle BS

CrazFight 1 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

More from Gameplay

More by TurretBud