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So rengar can't exist as a consistently good champion

MunchCrunchLunch··3 votes·791 views

49 percent win rate. And currently on pbe one of the hardest nerfs you'll ever see. My question is. Why did you keep his theme if it's displeasing for people to play against it. It's quite obvious that the fan base with hunts a champion every once in a while until it gets gutted. See zed, and soon yasuo Mayne ans now rengar. (personally I have no problem to play against zed or rengar. yasuo yes tho).

If you can't make a champion that is balance able around a fair win rate then you failed at designing them. Nobody except a few are gonna pick them up because statistics mean more than opinion. And people play to climb the ladder. I think I have like 12 games on rengo but this is pretty bad for mains. The whole rework is. Failure. there is no other way to call it. you miserably failed. pre-rework rengar was to sum it up. hard to clear jungle with. overnerfed (his burst was so shit unless you get crit and shank them down with a lot of attack speed). post rework rengar managed to make his kill time longer. the Q animation itself is longer than old kill time by far. but people still have problems with an assassin one shotting them. from my point of view at least hes there and is killable after his burst unlike Khazix that gets a jump reset to dash 900 units away behind a wall.

16 Comments

ChaddyFantome3 votes

I am a Season3 Talon main. Talon Imho, Assassins should never be meta. if assassins are meta, it means they are over tuned atm. The entire concept of an assassin is should make then to be inherently niche.

This isn't to say assassins should be weak. But it shouldn't be to were assassins are being picked consistently over mages or what have you in the midlane.

They should be picked as a response to particular opposing comps.

GULAG 4 U4 votes

The problem with assassins is that their entire niche is to kill something that has more value than them. Essentially they must be useless because their entire goal is to take something with more value than them, so they have to be somwhat crap.

Quepha2 votes

He's an extremely common pick in pro games and lethality items were just buffed.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

He's an extremely common pick in pro games and lethality items were just buffed.

lethality huh. no thanks. full ad rengar sucks.

Touch My Box1 votes

There are plenty of Champions who have this issue.

If the champion is doing well, they aren't fun to play against. If the champion is doing poorly, they aren't fun to play and won't get picked.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Its Not Shacko,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jimHRIF8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-26T00:53:00.108+0000)

There are plenty of Champions who have this issue.

If the champion is doing well, they aren't fun to play against. If the champion is doing poorly, they aren't fun to play and won't get picked.

according to who tho? the majority of people that post on these boards are bronze silver and a good chunk are unranked that have not played a game of league since 10 patches ago.

"oh rengar burst so high Imma make him longer to kill and make his assassination less reliable. oh wait they are building him bruiser because our assassin build is shit so lets nerf that too. dont pick rengar guys"

Miror B1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Its Not Shacko,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jimHRIF8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-26T00:53:00.108+0000)

There are plenty of Champions who have this issue.

If the champion is doing well, they aren't fun to play against. If the champion is doing poorly, they aren't fun to play and won't get picked.

The bigger problem with those characters usually being that their kits don't really counter or aren't countered by specific characters excluding all of the damage buffs to them. I'll use Irelia as an example as I'd argue she's probably the most "balanced" character right now: thanks to her W and E, irelia works well into assassins as she can not only almost guarantee a stun (due to her e working off lower hp than them) but also heal back up and basically "infi-tank" against them, with her Q allowing for a decent gapcloser. Eliminating the skill level of both players, olaf without question hard-counters her as he can almost always avoid her stun thanks to his passive, and doesn't really "mind" if she q's into him.

Look at 80% of the characters rito's either reworked or released in the past year, and one disturbing trend has been around their kits: damage. Rather than their kits being countered by specific characters, it's usually reliant on whether they can be killed fast enough or not. In turn, rito will then either give them more or less damage to fix their winrates while leaving them in that "volatile/counter-less" state. It's a strategy that I personally think will force a lot of these characters to be reworked (as you can only add/remove so much damage to characters before they become polarized), but hey, anything to avoid being like Dota right?

Dynikus1 votes

[deleted]

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

Winrate on it's own means nothing. Winrate on an unreliable 3rd party website means even less. Even pretending winrate on a 3rd party website was all that mattered with champion balance, 49.75% isn't bad.

it isn't bad but when you get olaf sort of nerfs. its bad. half an ability. an entire half of an ability is getting removed. completely. he is losing 33% of his ult duration.

they need to come out and plain and easy say that they failed. but they probably won't because riot almost never fixes things immediately (actually never) and hes gonna be put on a trash tier list that only few people can learn to win with. and eventually reworked like 3 years down the line lol. basicaly this whole rework was a failiure and should have just left pre-worked rengar be. because at least preworked rengar potential was a little higher if you mastered him nowdays you can't do much besides going bruiser

Dynikus2 votes

sorry, I deleted that because I didn't feel like partaking in this thread. His ult duration is stupidly long and too forgiving though, losing 33% is fine.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

sorry, I deleted that because I didn't feel like partaking in this thread. His ult duration is stupidly long and too forgiving though, losing 33% is fine.

see tho thats just a subjective opinion. according to who. you his ult is too long? and btw these winrates are from Riot APIs. if Rengar is so op why isn't his winrate 60%. or hell at least 50%. its subjective. its just a witchhunt.

actually am done because how dare I not be a maniac and use my opinion as a fact on these boards. this place sucks.

Dynikus2 votes

It's a subjective opinion that apparently riot agrees with, or atleast is going to test out on the pbe. Rengar is one of the highest banrate champions at the moment. Going off lolking (questionably accurate, but still a decent indication), he has an 70-85% banrate in master/challenger, 45-60% in diamond, 30-40% in plat, and the absolute lowest is around 18% in bronze. It's not a witch hunt, it's trying to balance a champion most people find frustrating to play against. http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Rengar If you want some more unreliable winrates though, he's sitting at 57% on probuilds.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

It's a subjective opinion that apparently riot agrees with, or atleast is going to test out on the pbe. Rengar is one of the highest banrate champions at the moment. Going off lolking (questionably accurate, but still a decent indication), he has an 70-85% banrate in master/challenger, 45-60% in diamond, 30-40% in plat, and the absolute lowest is around 18% in bronze. It's not a witch hunt, it's trying to balance a champion most people find frustrating to play against. http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Rengar If you want some more unreliable winrates though, he's sitting at 57% on probuilds.

Riot has also reworked Ryze about 7 times even tho they know his problems every single time . they totally know what they're doing

/s.

Leo10241 votes

What are these Rengar nerfs? I find him extremely fun but i can deal with some nerfs, just curious as to what they are or where i can find them :p

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

What are these Rengar nerfs? I find him extremely fun but i can deal with some nerfs, just curious as to what they are or where i can find them :p

Savagery (Q) dash range lowered by 50 units.

Battle Roar (W) Ferocity CC prevention effect removed - no longer "prevents incoming ones for 1.5 seconds,"

Thrill of the Hunt (R) duration lowered to 10/15/20 from 14/22/30

SaltyKracka1 votes

Good. Ragnarok is Olaf's ultimate, there's no reason Rango should be getting it just for spamming all of his shit.

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