@Meddler Are there any plans to buff fizz?

Gladiore67·Dec 1, 2016·4 votes·729 views

Hes currently sitting at a 46% winrate with a 52% winrate with 125 plus games played and he feels really bad. So are there any plans to buff or change him whatsoever?

24 Comments

Mr CarbonDec 1, 20162 votes

People haven't quite grasped on to fizz's new playstyle. I think they actually did a nice job. No... you can't just proc w then jump on them... but rather have to be patient to deal your full combo. Q to them to apply on hit, E to dodge an ability and give time to do full w proc damage on auto. It actually does more damage than his old kit, but people don't understand the patience needed and play him like old. The Fish buff is also a good skill cap increase.

AstôlfoDec 1, 20163 votes

He's an assassin. Assassins are not supposed to wait out ridiculously fucking long delays.

Mr CarbonDec 1, 20162 votes

It's not ridiculously long lol... it's 2 seconds... and if you've already hit the shark.... they are airborne for 1 second of that.... and trickster is another .75...

AstôlfoDec 2, 20162 votes

Uh. For an assassin, that is a fucking eternity.

PennsDec 2, 20162 votes

The combo is good if you hit ult, but only then.. Like nep2une said, he is an assassin and his ult as well as his E already had delays + were dodgable. No need to give his W 2s delay and increase the delay on ult.

You should isten to https://youtu.be/RtUbHJAOdSk?t=21m47s and https://youtu.be/RtUbHJAOdSk?t=26m3s for a while, pretty much sums it up imo.

Mr CarbonDec 1, 20161 votes

The combo that he has now is fluid and deadly and balanced when played correctly, and Ultimately does more damage with less consistency than pre-nerf AP fizz. This put AP fizz back into a viable AP assassin position again, without seeing stupid stuff like AD bruiser fizz come back. The entire Idea behind the updates were to increase the ability for assassins to do damage throughout the game, by making them do more damage but on a higher skill cap that makes it not as consistent with room for counter play.

Stop bitching about something that is balanced...

Gladiore67Dec 2, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Carbon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jdWlQyPg,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-12-01T22:33:25.607+0000)

The combo that he has now is fluid and deadly and balanced when played correctly, and Ultimately does more damage with less consistency than pre-nerf AP fizz. This put AP fizz back into a viable AP assassin position again, without seeing stupid stuff like AD bruiser fizz come back. The entire Idea behind the updates were to increase the ability for assassins to do damage throughout the game, by making them do more damage but on a higher skill cap that makes it not as consistent with room for counter play.

Stop bitching about something that is balanced...

If its so balanced and amazingly good why does he have a 46% winrate? While people with 125 plus games on him have a 52% winrate.

PermabannedGarenDec 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

If its so balanced and amazingly good why does he have a 46% winrate? While people with 125 plus games on him have a 52% winrate.

Why did Ryze have a dog shit win rate for a few patches before, surprise surprise, he was insanely overpowered and being spammed in the LCS?

The same to a lesser extent happened with Ryze's most recent rework. Horrible stats for a while, but eventually people figured out how to work with his kit and he's now known to be a very strong champion.

Fizz was reworked a patch ago. Give it some time.

Or don't. Just know that Riot doesn't give a single shit about you or how impatient you're being. Riot will buff Fizz only when they believe his relatively low win rate is not due to people not knowing how to play him fully. Not before.

PennsDec 2, 20163 votes

Because Ryze is a broken mage that STILL has his point and click instakill root.. I doubt Fizz is gonna be good in any way in LCS with how easy he is to counter for good players.

AstôlfoDec 2, 20162 votes

Please stop talking about things you're entirely clueless about.

Mr CarbonDec 2, 20161 votes

Careful guys... the bronze 4 keyboard warrior is telling people they are clueless about league. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

PermabannedGarenDec 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

He's an assassin. Assassins are not supposed to wait out ridiculously fucking long delays.

Yet the assassins that you foolishly said were dog shit and couldn't function are slowly but surely turning out to be powerful once people get the hang of them. LeBlanc is dominating Korean mid lane, and Fizz is being used to success in high elo. At best some of the assassins might need some number tweaking, but they can still perform their function admirably. Rengar is being nerfed for his laughably huge percentage bonus AD, Kha is strong, Shaco is strong, and Talon and Katarina might need some buffs (though Katarina is much harder to play effectively now so it is harder to say with her). The only assassin who seems to have come out of the update undeniably worse appears to be Akali.

Your simplistic analysis of the counterplay to Fizz's ult also ignores that there are a huge amount of circumstances where that is not an option. If your team is stunned by Sejuani, for example. Assassins are generally not meant to initiate, though funnily enough Fizz is actually decent at it, since his ult at max size is such a huge AOE displacement that, even if it doesn't hit the ADC, it can disrupt the enemy team and force the ADC in a bad position to avoid being hit by it. Skill caps and shit. Fizz's is now higher than it was. Skill cap for assassins was honestly raised across the board.

CatastropDec 2, 20161 votes

I really want to upvote this like a million times, but I'm not authorized.

RexSaurDec 2, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Yet the assassins that you foolishly said were dog shit and couldn't function are slowly but surely turning out to be powerful once people get the hang of them. LeBlanc is dominating Korean mid lane, and Fizz is being used to success in high elo. At best some of the assassins might need some number tweaking, but they can still perform their function admirably. Rengar is being nerfed for his laughably huge percentage bonus AD, Kha is strong, Shaco is strong, and Talon and Katarina might need some buffs (though Katarina is much harder to play effectively now so it is harder to say with her). The only assassin who seems to have come out of the update undeniably worse appears to be Akali.

Your simplistic analysis of the counterplay to Fizz's ult also ignores that there are a huge amount of circumstances where that is not an option. If your team is stunned by Sejuani, for example. Assassins are generally not meant to initiate, though funnily enough Fizz is actually decent at it, since his ult at max size is such a huge AOE displacement that, even if it doesn't hit the ADC, it can disrupt the enemy team and force the ADC in a bad position to avoid being hit by it. Skill caps and shit. Fizz's is now higher than it was. Skill cap for assassins was honestly raised across the board.

The thing is that fizz did get straight up nerfed.

Kat and LB are both actually broken already cause they have enough potential, fizz is by far the weakest assassin out of every one that was changed now that akali got buffed, hes just a straight up worse version of LB atm, he does no damage and has a worse late game than pantheon (going into melee range late game and having to wait full 2 second before doing more than 200 damage is never going to be viable, pantheon is better late game), hes completely overreliant on the ult and whenever he doesnt have it adcs/mages can "assassinate" him in melee range, its stupid.

PermabannedGarenDec 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The thing is that fizz did get straight up nerfed.

Kat and LB are both actually broken already cause they the potential, fizz is by far the weakest assassin out of every one that was changed now that akali got buffed, hes just a straight up worse version of LB atm, he does no damage and has a worse late game than pantheon (going into melee range late game and having to wait full 2 second before doing more than 200 damage is never going to be viable, pantheon is better late game), hes completely overreliant on the ult and whenever he doesnt have it adcs/mages can "assassinate" him in melee range, its stupid.

A max range Fizz ult followed by his full combo when he's at his typical full build (which has a GA in it btw, so he could be doing more damage if he went full damage, I also didn't factor in an elixir) does enough damage to easily 100-0 an ADC that has a guardian angel, and that's without counting the damage of his W's passive which I didn't bother to factor in.

Even a mid range ult would allow him to 100-0 an ADC under the same rules.

Even the shortest ranged ult would allow him to 100-0 an ADC under the same rules.

I mean, I guess you could argue that he's too ult-reliant, but tbh he was always ult reliant, since his old ult increased all of the magic damage he did, and his ult is on such a low cooldown that it's not a significant weakness IMHO.

AstôlfoDec 2, 20162 votes

LeBlanc is a mage.

As for Fizz, people still don't have much actual in-game experience playing against most of the reworked mages and AD fighters after the mage/fighter rework.

Rengar and Kha'Zix are the two exceptions.

AP Shaco is cancerous cheese but AD got killed altogether.

And.… Fizz can't really flank and take out a carry by himself surrounded by their teammate without relying on his own team then. That makes him dogshit.

PermabannedGarenDec 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

LeBlanc is a mage.

Oh yeah? How is she suddenly a mage? Because as I recall she was one of the big four in the assassin update, on the client she is referred to as an assassin, she has a bunch of damage and mobility with relatively low utility, like an assassin, so like, how is she a mage instead of an assassin?

As for Fizz, people still don't have much actual in-game experience playing against most of the reworked mages and AD fighters after the mage/fighter rework.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here. Can you clarify?

Rengar and Kha'Zix are the two exceptions.

Nah, most of the assassins are a'ight.

AP Shaco is cancerous cheese but AD got killed altogether.

Killed? No. Weaker than before? At the moment yeah, but before AP Shaco became the big cheese AD Shaco builds were still rocking 52% win rates and doing okay.

Riot does want him to be primarily AD, so let's see how they choose to handle this, if indeed he does.

And.… Fizz can't really flank and take out a carry by himself surrounded by their teammate without relying on his own team then. That makes him dogshit.

And ADCs can do jack diddly shitdick fuckboy shit without relying on their team, are they dog shit?

There is not a single tank that can win a game by themselves in high elo. Are they dog shit?

This is a fucking team game. Your main is very team reliant outside of laning phase and no, she is not dog shit.

There is not a single assassin in the game that can casually roll up on a five man team that isn't dog shit, jump into the middle of them, and kill the enemy ADC, not unless they were insanely out of this world overpowered. Not even Rengar can do that right now.

But Fizz can easily kill an ADC by himself, with the only prerequisite being hitting them with the ult. Doesn't necessarily need to land it on them, as long as the mark is on them before he goes in.

Also, challenger players get hit by the big fish dick skill shot, and you're going to post here and act like it's the simplest thing in the world for an ADC player to avoid?

AstôlfoDec 2, 20162 votes

Because her burst combo takes at least 2s usually. And she's even worse in the sense she's almost entirely single target, as opposed to AOE like most other mages. 2s is not an assassination. That's a long burst combo.

I'm not sure what you mean? I'm talking about the newest rework. You know, the one for AD fighters/duelists and AP battle mages?

Mmk.

You mean 52% pre-rework or post?

Because ADCs can take on an entire team, build massive amounts of crit and attack speed, and have absurdly high DPS that can shred through an entire team. A tank's role is to soak up damage and CC and apply CC. And they could probably help their team get fed enough to win by keeping them alive until they eventually start picking up kills - aka, pseudo-carrying. Assassins are specifically meant to hunt down the carries and solo kill them. Hence, mobility so they can get in point-blank range since everything is close-range for them, and being almost ENTIRELY SINGLE TARGET BASED (in a meaningful sense, because things like Akali's spin hitting multiple targets is unlikely and thus irrelevant because her mark or her ult is what does the majority).

Incorrect. If the assassin player is better than all 5 players (or at least manages to outplay them in that specific case) or the 5 players are idiots, the assassin should be able to. And it's not always going to be 1 versus all 5. 1v3 or such could happen as well. Which ups the assassin's odds.

Sure, if he lands the fish at a long range and/or has a shitton of AP. But if the ADC was alone, the argument is automatically dismissed and invalid. They deserve to be deleted. If they were with their team, they really have no excuse for being hit unless the rest of the assassin's team either successfully prevented the tankier members from being able to body block or the like. And even then, it's still the ADC's fault for not moving out of the way or to the side with how long it takes for the fish itself to travel. Of course, if the assassin successfully outplayed the rest of the team instead of said enemy team being bad, then it's a plus to the assassin.

Uh, everyone will get hit by everything sooner or later whether by pure chance, luck, outplay, misplay, or some other third party issue. If a champion was completely useless, they'd never be played. Fizz still has the potential to do so, it's just ridiculously, absurdly hard to do so with him now, as opposed to say, picking any regular AP mage instead. Like, what, Syndra or Veigar both have point and click ults, neither of which can be body blocked (outside of projectile blockers), and it is almost always a guaranteed kill if the rest of the mage's team or they themselves gets a little bit of damage off. As opposed to an assassin having s snowball's chance in hell of killing s full health carry. Or for instance, Brand with his passive AoE and multiple AoE damage abilities (pillar, ult, flame spread thing with the E or whatever it was). Or say, I dunno, Annie. Or Orianna. Or Viktor. Or whatever else have you, AP Kennen's ult-Zhonya's. All of which can decimate entire teams or their carries far faster and more reliably than an assassin.

In a heavily grouped, wild, clustering teamfight, most skillshots will land at least on something. And potentially AoE spells (Brand's pillar for instance) can easily hit multiple targets. So needing to land skillshots or whatever isn't an argument. Neither is being squishy when they can just hail hell onto the enemy from a safe backline position.

dchxlgfn1164Dec 1, 20162 votes

Buff him? The hitbox on his ulti is broken as fuck. He also has two great gapclosers / escapes and an iframe that doubles as an AoE slow. If you can't succeed with Fizz then you're just pure trash.

Mr CarbonDec 1, 20162 votes

This is a bit too far... Fizz actually does take a good bit of skill to play correctly at a high level, but that being said he doesn't need buffs. He is in a healthy state.

PennsDec 2, 20162 votes

Why is he in a healthy state when there is 0 actual reason to pick him over a mage like Viktor, Ahri, Vel Koz, Ryze, Syndra or Cass?

AstôlfoDec 1, 20163 votes

No, not really. Dodge it or have a tank bodyblock it. Gapclosers/escapes mean jackshit when he has no meaningful burst. Cry more in your ignorance.

QuephaDec 2, 20162 votes

i think W needs a full mana refund on kill and maybe another small buff to his mana usage and he'd be in a better spot.

KorilloDec 2, 20161 votes

The few fizz games I played he felt very good. Infact he felt too good, his ult from max range has a HUGE radius. Pretty hard to dodge... Idk I completely stomped the games I played with Fizz I don't think he needs buffs.