Is it really that hard to make better tutorials?

Zenfro··99 votes·2,448 views

Hello :)

I had a friend of mine join this game recently, while I was on vacation. When I got back I wanted to play a few games and teach him some tricks, etc.

and I looked at his match history. Guess what he did?

He only built thornmail on jinx 0/21/2 or something like that EVERY game because of this stupid ass tutorial.

Next game I tell him to build attack damage. 15/14/1

I just feel like new league players depend on friends to tell them to not build only thornmail, and I think that a tutorial for all roles would be amazing, telling you what kind of items you should build, etc. I think that it is just destroying the game even more by repelling new players.

41 Comments

Spoofghoul28 votes

well i kind of figured out that thornmail wasnt effective on ashe during the tutorial

i mean its kind of obvious

but i do agree that this game needs usefull tutorials which teach some of the very core basics.

Like how you want to build attack damage on an ad carry and then proceed to not melee your enemies but rather kite them and teach how towers are dangerous earlygame so dont do level 1 dives because thats dumb

and to cs properly setting milestones for cs

like get 25 cs first 10 minutes then 50 then 75

and give large xp and ip bonuses for accomplishing them so you can level your account faster

some very basic shit like take x dragons before 10 minutes and 20 minutes teaching players that drakes are good to take

getting this many towers etc etc

play 3 games without dying for example or get 50 assists simply to teach that kills don't mean everything and that not dying is important as is helping your allies get some assist

maybe even a 1 day boost after you completed the quest to play every role once with a positive kda

some milestones to get after the tutorial to continue to teach new players and reward them with quicker level 30 if accomplished succesfully

LostFr0st10 votes

a#%TDU$S%WECFG That isn't even the only tutorial. [zombie-brand-mindblown] That's Battle Training on Howling Abyss.

WE HAVE A TUTORIAL RIGHT NOW.

It's been there since the new Rift was made.

It's on Summoner's Rift.

It is Decent.

It tells of last-hitting, objectives, jungle mobs, main play-styles (mage, ranged dps, fighter) and buying items.

Go try it, then come back here and post.

DrCyanide4 votes

"Basic Tutorial" is on the Howlying Abyss. "Battle Training" is on Summoner Rift.

Battle Training is far better than the Tutorial, so I think I'll revise the OP's point:

Why do we have a Basic Tutorial which is so brain dead that no one wants to go onto "Battle Training"? Why not work the basics (moving, spells, how to use the shop) from Basic Tutorial into Battle Training, making an overall shorter and better tutorial experience?

I still don't like that AP/AD aren't explained in the tutorial. I was nearly Level 25 before anyone thought to mention to me that Teemo should probably build AP instead of pure Attack Speed (this was when each mushroom had 80% AP scaling).

LostFr0st1 votes

Sorry I got the terms wrong, doesn't change anything. When my friend joined he did both tutorials and actually forgot about the first one because the second one was more fun. I don't think explaining AP/AD is necessary due to the recommended item builds having been updated recently. It's just not necessary that early into learning the game. It's not nearly as easy to access and build random garbage as it used to be.

kaltenashes7 votes

what about recommended items?

didnt your friend opened the shop at least once and saw the recommended items?

LostFr0st4 votes

I'm surprised that the friend could find thornmail in the shop to build playing adc it since he was new to the game, especially since it defaults to the recommended item view in the shop.

I had so much trouble sometimes finding some items right when I started out, I used to jump from item to item using the pieces as connectors because I knew only the pictures for the first couple weeks.

flibitydoo3 votes

yeah I'm smelling some BS from OP

most noobs aren't even aware that there are other items outside of the recommended tab (or that there are tabs) which is the default item loadout players have access to.

Hell, there are people in gold that aren't even aware that there are other items outside of the recommended tab.

For someone to intentionally and deliberately find and build thornmail from the shop menu sounds fishy

DrCyanide2 votes

I know I found the "All Items" tab pretty quickly, focusing on the only stat that I thought looked good to have - Attack Speed. Full attack speed Teemo, from probably Level 5 to nearly Level 25, because no one explained what Ability Power was.

And yeah, the recommended item 3115 convinced me that it was Attack Speed that made Teemo awesome.

kaltenashes1 votes

i love me some AS teemo, i experimented a lot with teemo bot item 3508 item 3085 item 1053 item 3006item 3153 item 3022

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

what about recommended items?

didnt your friend opened the shop at least once and saw the recommended items?

honestly when i started the game i was building morellonomicon and zhonyas on ad champs. nobody looks are recommended items because you want to act like you know what your doing and get the best items not the standard ones.

but seriously. for a lot of champs the standard items aren't the way to go but i get your point u shouldnt be thinking that much that eaerly.

kaltenashes1 votes

when i started at s1, my first game was as Alistar i had no idea what to do then i found a turret and started to attack it, the turret killed me 2 times. at the '3rd back' i discovered i could buy items and my first one was (old) item 3046 i thought my AS was too slow... every champ i played i used to rush pd to destroy turrets quick and i had no idea why i never got kills

then i discovered item with gold generation and every game i was buying: avarice blade, heart of gold and kage's lucky pick

gosh i was so dumb

Swaid6 votes

Its not like its fucking hard; I could probably make one in the Warcraft 3 Map Editor, has all the same shit ya need to learn for League except ability power and even that can be supplemented using triggers that associate the stats Strength, Agility, and Intelligence with spell damage.

Riot needs to make a tutorial for each role and explains what they do, as well as provide example champions for that role so someone doesn't pick something off meta that they need to practice with first to make work. Perhaps Riot should give the tools necessary to create tutorials to the people that make video tutorials on YouTube or something, at least.

Bouncemaster Zac6 votes

It's incredibly difficult to make new tutorials. You see, tutorials don't make them money and aren't related to the pro scene, so they simply can't afford to update them.

LostFr0st1 votes

They have a summoner's rift tutorial. It's also pretty good. Thornmail Ashe isn't it, that's battle training, not the tutorial.

Monkey D Luffy5 votes

The new player experience is awful and lazy and Riot need to step their game up in it, it's very disgusting.

Karol Scheibler4 votes

'We could do it, but we focus on deeper gameplay ;)"

-Tryndamere, CEO of Riot on Reddit.

So no.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

Wanted to also add that he then asked "Why do you care about a better tutorial".

Someone asked him "Do you think that it wouldn't help the 80% Bronze/Silver players?"

"No, I don't."

LostFr0st2 votes

I agree with him. There's nothing wrong with the current tutorial on SR.

I highly doubt most even remember anything in the current Summoner's Rift tutorial like "last hitting a minion will give you gold" or "the objective of the game is to force your opponent back to base; during that time you should push out your minions, giving you enough time to get some damage onto the enemy tower before going back to base yourself."

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

Things the tutorial tells you to do on HA:

  • How to play in the most basic sense (Abilities, last hitting, etc.)
  • How to buy items.
  • Overall game goal.

Things the guided tutorial of SR tells you to do:

  • What type of character you're playing ( Ryze, Garen, Ashe)
  • Not to take turret aggro.
  • Heal when hurt.

Things the tutorials DOESN'T teach you:

  • Warding in every facet.
  • What abilities scale (IE: Orange scale with AD. Red scale with HP, etc)
  • What the usual lane layout is.
  • How to jungle and everything associated with jungling.
  • Blue Buff/Red Buff importance.
  • Epic monsters.
  • Importance of each class.
  • GENERAL item patterns per role. (Mages want AP/CDR, Supports get support items/sightstone, etc.)
  • Runes/Masteries.
  • Game Mechanic Concepts. (Splitpushing, Ganking, Counterjungling, etc)
  • Resource concepts (Mana, Savagery, Shield, Heat, Energy, Rage, etc.)

I'm probably missing more stuff but there is SO MUCH the tutorial doesn't teach you. And no. The "Oh they'll learn as they play" means fuckall when you have games filled with bots and AI being garbage. As someone guiding two new players right now, these systems have no excuse for being so bare bones. Especially when you compare something like DOTA2's giant tutorial.

LostFr0st1 votes

Other things the SR tutorial says

  • minions are worth gold
  • stay behind them so you don't take aggro
  • push for objectives
  • protect your towers
  • you don't have to kill your opponent to win, them backing is enough

I tried to play Dota right when I started League, didn't make it past the tutorial, came back here.

The best tutorial Riot could ever give imho should be contained in the coop-vs AI mode and should be given by us veterans. If they can find a way to connect people who want to be on both sides it'd be a good start. I've played (I'm going to call them 3v7s and 2v8s because we had multiple bots who ran down mid) with just myself and (a) random new player(s) loads of times in the last few months. You wouldn't believe how much they learn in those games about minion wave management and priorities. They're like a sponge for info. It's so much better to have multiple real people to learn from than a robot, and it's more interesting.

Pikmints4 votes

I think it's just Riot not considering it a priority. The overwhelming majority of the playerbase knows how turrets, items, and abilities work, so improving the tutorial would have literally no impact on that majority. All of the people that used that sub-par tutorial eventually got to where they are now be it Diamond or higher, and the people in bronze aren't being held back based on what they learned in the tutorial, so the competitive side of the game isn't suffering either.

The current tutorial seems like an attempt to condense all of the basic mechanics into as short a time period as possible so that the player can then experiment on their own and not be bored with extensive tutorials. Couple that with the notion that actual experience is far more valuable than learned through hand-holding, then Riot has lots of incentive to get each user playing as quickly as possible.

If they did expand upon the tutorials, you have to figure what would be good tutorials to add and what would be too much. If you make a tutorial where you play each of the champion subclasses, then some people may be compelled to complete the tutorials before going into real matches, overwhelming themselves with the amount of knowledge there is to learn. While I see the benefit of providing a jungling tutorial, the fact that players won't have smite available to them until level 10 means that learning about the jungle items, uses for smite, and learning the timing of smite secures won't be applicable for a good number of games.

I want to say that if they did either add or remake the tutorials, it may be better to have certain tutorials unlock as you progress. Once you hit level 10 a jungling tutorial would become available to avoid the problems listed in the paragraph above. Perhaps at level 3 there could be a tutorial dedicated to understanding stats, explaining how they translate to abilities and overall gameplay, this would provide new players the freedom to experiment blind for a few games but the tutorial would still only be a light tap in the right direction. Maybe around level 15 there could be a tutorial dedicated to all of the various finer aspects like how turret damage ramps up and their other details, how trinkets and vision work, explaining the variances in cc, explain the differences in additive and multiplicative and diminishing return on stats.

AwesomeChad4 votes

we have thousands of veteran players......shouldn't be hard to put our heads together to make a better tutorial that will help newer players ease into this game.

Urf Mode Is Life2 votes

If someone cant figure out what they need to be successful in league, thats on them.

As someone who played MMOs a fair amount in my earlier years, I understood that ARMOR wasnt going to help me deal DAMAGE

Have half a brain please

devdev4632 votes

You would think riot would redo their tutorials by now considering that all they do nowadays is pander to the casual market, and are leaving their veteran player base completely out to dry while they look for new people to join the game. If your going to pander to casuals at least do it right. And good tutorials aren't even pandering to casuals in the slightest, it's a positive change that can only be helpful to the game. But riot doesn't like improvement, they like change, and I feel like they show this time and time again.

dragon1xx1 votes

It kind of says "BUILD THORNMAIL LOLOLOL" in the tutorial..... I can see why he was confused. But, you know, it actually could be good on Garen.

LostFr0st1 votes

That's not the tutorial -_- OP is talking about battle training as if it's the tutorial.

Narvuntien1 votes

:/.

Seriously though.. they either need one... or they need to make links to the resources other people have made easily accessible and constantly featured preferably through the client or when people first sign up.

Featured Guide....... then link it.

X champion is on free rotation, learn how to play them from the best.... Links to guide.

As much as I don't enjoy the game, DoTA2 just this all down, in game guides that help you with your item choices.. its just soo good.

Friendly Ram1 votes

Have riot make a new tutorial every season.

Warning Shot1 votes

so when you click the shop, theres this thing call recommended items, tell your friend to use it, problem solved.

xelaker1 votes

it isnt all that hard...and hell even if it has no tutorial at the very least be smart enough to build recommended

LostFr0st1 votes

There is one though. QQ A decent one. On the Rift. And nobody seems to know about it. It's frustrating to see these threads due to that.

ofart1 votes

There are so many resources on YouTube and other sites. It's not hard to find.

Bocajthunder1 votes

In my opinion league could gain a lot from broadening their tutorials, but doing so would hinder their sales and they are owned by a Chinese company who doesn't care about a sandbox mode or a well made tutorial. Some quality of life things that are present in games like HOTS and Dota 2 (disclaimer: I do not play these games but I have played their tutorials and given them a few hour shot). I feel like Mobas are a genre of games that are honestly difficult to become accustomed to. It is a learning experience it requires people who play the game to share their knowledge and in some ways it is a great community duty to help each other, but is also a route for many to pester you about how to play something you know how to play.

I personally feel that Mobas are hard enough to get into and require a little hand holding before you can walk by yourself. Like learning how to ride a bike really, I remember my first few games after I downloaded league playing Ashe bot and knowing nothing at all and my friend just telling me what to do and me just being utterly confused. I grew to love this game, and I feel that a tutorial that tells you how to play specific champions, the roles, basic build tutorials for roles and generic easy to play characters for those roles, and a tutorial on runes and masteries would be awesome and even give an example of generic pages. All in all league could become a more learner friendly environment for not only solo players but also friend groups if some quality of life tutorials or even videos made professionally by riot on how to play the game in depth.

The current tutorials in place at this moment are ineffective at teaching players beyond what the jungle is, how to last hit, objectives, and other generic things. There needs to be a more advanced tutorial to teach the new players how to play the whole game there is much more to the game than what is shown in the two small tutorials.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs] Have a nice day and thank you for reading what I have to say, sorry if there are any grammatical errors. Bocajthunder

RiverWind04071 votes

until i was lvl 10, after i spent about 20 minutes just staring at the item shop when i was lvl 1, i thought that triforce was the best because League was my first game that I had to actively worry about "stats" and, in my eyes, this yellow triangle had the most variety. health, mana, etc? yes plz. I built it on EVERYTHING.

A Basic Island1 votes

well, yeah

it costs money and the return is 0 because you don't buy tutorials

so it's pretty much out of the question

Shaco is coming1 votes

The tutorials are a bugged joke anyways. If you alt-tab in the battle training, you're stuck and can't finish it (have to exit and start again). Also how come your friend went 0-21 in a Co-OP beginner/intro game? My 9 year old cousin goes like 20-5-XX in beginner bots and they build random items (attack speed and damage on every champion basically).

Smitty Manjensen1 votes

If they manage to find a way to sell it for RP you will get better tutorials.

barbarianskull1 votes

My friend just started and he bought all bf swords

Çhåryzård1 votes

When i first started playing, the controls it told me to use were wrong and apparently on my Mac the controls were different and it took me 5 minutes just to figure out how to move around.

Poro Agent 0071 votes

Kill 3 wolf you get 500 gold

Shinirup1 votes

Is it really that hard to google tutorials/ guides?

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