For somebody who has a spammable Q, a safety knockback that can double as a stun, and a controllable AoE slow, you'd think she'd need some weakness besides being outranged. Most assassins can't even fight her in melee now because she can just knock them away and destroy them even before she hits 6.
ZT Xperimentor8 votesHer Q has a noticeable delay and obvious hitbox marker, it's called paying attention. Controllable AOE slow? It's another delayed ranged aoe slow; nothing nearly as strong as ekko's however. Assassins shouldn't be focusing mages anyway, you know those champions that kill turrets and other objectives in a couple seconds (aka marksmen), yeah that's who you're supposed to be focusing as an assassin. Let the tanks deal with the mages instead.
Melledoneus4 votes[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jKZ3TBUi,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-11-17T04:48:26.575+0000)
Her Q has a noticeable delay and obvious hitbox marker, it's called paying attention.
Most champions do not have the movement speed or dispensable mobility tools to dodge a decently large AoE with such a relatively short delay. Karthus, for example, deals less damage to multiple targets with his Q, has to stop to cast it, but the ability is balanced because of the delay. With Syndra it feels like once she starts casting her Q you can't leave the area soon enough unless you have swiftness boots.
Controllable AOE slow? It's another delayed ranged aoe slow; nothing nearly as strong as ekko's however.
Ekko's has a whopping 3 second delay, and gives you an indicator that he's about to use it. Syndra can drop it where you are without having to think ahead, and given the decent size of the ability and how it slows, she is almost guaranteed a free Q unless she's up against someone with a blink or a quick dash.
Assassins shouldn't be focusing mages anyway, you know those champions that kill turrets and other objectives in a couple seconds (aka marksmen), yeah that's who you're supposed to be focusing as an assassin. Let the tanks deal with the mages instead.
Assassins are supposed to take out priority targets. A burst mage that can take out your carries and chunk your front line seems pretty priority to me. Also, I'd rather let the juggernaut handle MF and soak up hits rather than try to solo assassinate them when they burst me faster than I can pull off my combo...
TeCoolMage2 votesA burst mage that can take out your carries and chunk your front line seems pretty priority to me
burst mages are countered hard by tanks if they're smart enough to not spend all their gold on armour and actually buy a decent amount of health and MR.
No, Karthus, Cassiopeia, Ziggs and Taliyah are not burst mages, they chunk tanks because they have either short ranges, extremely telegraphed abilities, or are meant to specifically kill tanks. Good luck being useful once you use all your abilities on Galio as Annie or Viktor though.
Assassins are better off killing ADCs as a dead ADC = win fight while dead burst mage means the assassin didn't try to kill the ADC and therefore lost the fight
Also, I'd rather let the juggernaut handle MF and soak up hits rather than try to solo assassinate them when they burst me faster than I can pull off my combo...
That's a problem with ADCs, not assassins
Abyssphere6 votesWhat weakness should she have? It's not that unusual for a mage to have two forms of crowd control.
Melledoneus4 votesHer Q is effective as a zoning tool, also gets absurd in damage by level 5, and there's not much you can do about it except wish that you outrange her or she's bad.
Swain, on the other hand, has two forms of CC as well, but his snare is telegraphed (so it can be dodged) and his slow (which is his main damage) is a set zone. And then it has a CD.
I don't know many control mages with two forms of CC pre-6 that zone, peel, and hit that hard all at once.
ModAcademy Kayn2 votesJust saying, but before she levels up her W to get the triple Orb throw, her Stun is really easy to know where it's coming from. You simply play like you're fighting Bard, conscious of where she is in position to you.
Melledoneus2 votesMy problem isn't the stun. Most of the time I can dodge it because I'm used to being outranged. However, when she can knock you away when you go in (for example, a classic favorite of mine, Talon), then she can handily know where you are and land her abilities on you before decimating you whether you choose to run or pursue.
Bishasaurus Flex1 votesHer Q is effective as a zoning tool, also gets absurd in damage by level 5, and there's not much you can do about it except wish that you outrange her or she's bad.
Swain, on the other hand, has two forms of CC as well, but his snare is telegraphed (so it can be dodged) and his slow (which is his main damage) is a set zone. And then it has a CD.
I don't know many control mages with two forms of CC pre-6 that zone, peel, and hit that hard all at once.
Hmm
Lux and Xerath have hard hitting CC pre 6.
Brand, Zyra and even Veigar have zoning CC as well.
Syndra might have a stun and slow, but it's easy to bait out and her stun has a relatively longer CD. Syndra is highly predictable, and she can be countered easily. Buy boots and MR, and she can't one shot you unless she has at least 2 or 3 spheres already on the field. By that time, you should know she is looking for a stun/ult combo and if you stick around or stand in the way of a sphere, you missplayed. Usually junglers will gank Syndra because of her snowball potential.
Tips for playing against Syndra:
LordGeovanni1 votesNot unsusaly but that doesnt make it balanced
Abyssphere1 votesMaybe not, but you'd need to look at the balance of half the mages in the game if you deemed Syndra unbalanced in this area.
Catastrop5 votesMovement is all you need in this match up. You could be playing her best match up, you just need to know how to kite around. Like I've legit had Karthus players dodge everything because they suddenly started moving left and kept moving. I'm not saying maybe she can't get a tap on the wrist or something, but she's only oppressive if you let her be and just play like a coward.
Melledoneus3 votesIt's a known fact that Syndra can punish your only gap closer by pressing E.
report trynd afk5 votesSyndra's immobile and squishy. Only reason why she's OP is because Ryali's, E-Q stun bug, and her sphere duration is too long.
bad arcade kitty4 voteswhy should assassins be able to fight her at melee range? squishy mages should have cc to protect them exactly for that
Melledoneus15 votesBecause an assassin should be rewarded for getting close to her. She already has range and zoning potential, getting close to her should warrant some kind of reward. Otherwise, she's a battle mage and that's not what she's supposed to be with that burst.
bad arcade kitty4 votesBecause an assassin should be rewarded for getting close to her.
i.e. for using one of the million built-in dashes?
lol, no
Melledoneus10 votesSo then what's the point of playing a melee at all? If a mage like Syndra who has range over you is stronger than you out of your range and in your range, I might as well just play ranged everything.
Enosetc5 votesSo then what's the point of playing a melee at all? If a mage like Syndra who has range over you is stronger than you out of your range and in your range, I might as well just play ranged everything.
mages aren't allowed to have weaknesses on this board, silly
Melledoneus5 votesWell, I wouldn't say that.
I just feel like some people need to stop defending stupid concepts like mages should win no matter at what range.
Skaiserus1 votesAlthough it may sound weak, I would say to walk up to her normally. Deal damage, and then if you are knocked back, use your gap closer. It worked out well for me that way. Sorry if it doesn't work out well for you.
Melledoneus2 votesI think walking up to Syndra would almost guarantee her free damage, if not a kill.
If I were playing a tank, fuck yeah I'll walk right up to her and flick her nose until she's tilted.
LordGeovanni1 votestanks cant do that with out loseing 70% of their hp to syndra. unless they were in some other lane and some one fed them by not recalling with 200 hp and staying around for 20 seocnds for all the tnaks cds to come back up several times
Skaiserus1 votesTanks would only lose 70% of their HP if they were stupid enough not to build MR.
I did it as Talon once. Straight AD, no MR, and I killed her lol.
LordGeovanni1 votesTanks cant build mr until late unless their lane is an ap lane which 97% of the time it is not if you build mr early the adc assassins and fighters beat you down if you dont the mage beats you down and you are a tank you dont have damage to out trade them or farm faster than them. and by time end game come when you can build mr the mage still does the same thing because they have been full build for a while now while you going on your 5th item
Brain Errör 4042 votesYou mean like how assassins are complaining that they should be able to assassinate adcs, regardless of how fed they are?
Melledoneus4 votesI think it's more like the 15/3 Talon should be able to solo kill the 3/9 Vayne who's building crit.
Brain Errör 4041 votesThe fact that people saying he can't is what really bothers me.
Melledoneus3 votesThe fact that scenarios like that are actually happening, and aren't all that rare is what scares me.
GULAG 4 U1 votesWith your ult followed by melee Q, unless you're karbord 5, that's quite unlikely to mess up.
Doseqis2 votesAre you seriously trying to defend syndra, the i miss everything but still just press R on you and then 1 shot you
bad arcade kitty1 votesAre you seriously trying to defend syndra, the i miss everything but still just press R on you and then 1 shot you
that's because she can have too many balls at once too easy, it has nothing to do with cc at melee range
cc at melee range is fine, what's next, you will demand that ahri couldn't use her chatm at melee range or annie couldn't use her passive etc?
Melledoneus2 votesTo be honest those are bad examples.
Ahri's E is telegraphed and stops on the first target hit.
Annie needs to be relatively close to CC you. And she is THE anti-mobility mage.
EDIT: My mistake. I meant her E.
bad arcade kitty2 votesTo be honest those are bad examples.
Ahri's Q is telegraphed and stops on the first target hit.
Annie needs to be relatively close to CC you. And she is THE anti-mobility mage.
how so? they both will punish any foolish jumper just like syndra would
most of mages can punish a jumping assassin and it is how it should be
if anything you should complain why vayne can hard cc you at melee range and then burst you down (ashe can it too though, but she needs her ultimate)
syndra is broken but the part that she can stun at the melee range is completely fine. her stun is kind of too strong but it is because it is aoe and on a rather short cd, not because she can apply it on the melee range
Melledoneus2 votesI'm just saying that if her thing is super high damage, then she should be the mage who should have to position well or die.
Hovering Hentai1 votesName me one assassin that has difficulty getting into melee range...
Melledoneus2 votesName me one mid lane assassin whose gap closer is not tied to their damage.
PermabannedGaren1 votes[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jKZ3TBUi,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-11-17T03:15:55.630+0000)
why should assassins be able to fight her at melee range?
One of the most mind-numbingly stupid things ever said on the boards. You should feel bad.
bad arcade kitty1 votesOne of the most mind-numbingly stupid things ever said on the boards. You should feel bad.
how so? mages and assassins share the same lane so assassins shouldn't automatically win the lane as soon as they get their point and click dash, mages should be able to cc assassins point blank unless they were baited to use that cc earlier
you are way too entitled
PermabannedGaren1 votes[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jKZ3TBUi,comment-id=000300020000,timestamp=2016-11-29T08:11:22.998+0000)
how so? mages and assassins share the same lane so assassins shouldn't automatically win the lane as soon as they get their point and click dash, mages should be able to cc assassins point blank unless they were baited to use that cc earlier
you are way too entitled
Stay out of their range. Git gud and it won't be a problem. A button press should not invalidate an assassin's entire kit just because you didn't respect their threat radius.
Also, this stupid and childish thing you do where you assume that anyone who disagrees with your dumb comments plays assassins is, well, stupid and childish.
bad arcade kitty1 votesStay out of their range. Git gud and it won't be a problem. A button press should not invalidate an assassin's entire kit just because you didn't respect their threat radius.
Also, this stupid and childish thing you do where you assume that anyone who disagrees with your dumb comments plays assassins is, well, stupid and childish.
it doesn't invalidate them, they can dive another target or syndra when she has her cc on cd after using it in a teamfight, but syndra has a defense against them too
git gud and don't dive when you are about to be cced? a dash button shouldn't invalidate the whole champion who doesn't have a dedicated support to peel
Lenaro2 votesOne of the most mind-numbingly stupid things ever said on the boards. You should feel bad.
You didn't respond to their question. Let's ask another - Should an assasin be able to destroy a Heimer at melee range? How about Malz? Ahri? Swain?
There are your typical low-mobility, low-survivability mages which Assasins ruin, but Assasins aren't designed for (Nor should they be designed for) countering all mages. Suggesting otherwise indicates a strong preference for playing Assasins. If Zed, Fizz, Diana, or Talon were easily able to destroy their lane-opponent consistently then there'd be little reason to look towards traditional mages.
PermabannedGaren1 votesYou didn't respond to their question. Let's ask another - Should an assasin be able to destroy a Heimer at melee range? How about Malz? Ahri? Swain?
Strawman, three of those champions are balanced around their anti-dive potential and suffer for it with a lack of range or ability to make plays on their own. With Ahri kind of, but her power is so generalist that she can do fine versus just about everyone, and this is okay.
None of those champions except IIRC Ahri have Syndra's range, none of them have her crowd control, and none come close to her burst potential. Swain has better AOE I guess.
There are your typical low-mobility, low-survivability mages which Assasins ruin, but Assasins aren't designed for (Nor should they be designed for) countering all mages. Suggesting otherwise indicates a strong preference for playing Assasins. If Zed, Fizz, Diana, or Talon were easily able to destroy their lane-opponent consistently then there'd be little reason to look towards traditional mages.
So is Syndra not meant to be a low mobility, low survivability mage?
k wìx4 votesI think she's in a respectable place. Her skill cap is higher than your average burst mage, and she's not out of control, currently.
Melledoneus7 votesI feel like she used to be a lot more skill-oriented to play. I used to play a lot of Syndra, and nowadays it feels like she's the Darius of mid lane.
HazyCloud74 votesEven syndra mains would disagree with you. Her multi-sphere grab into stun is definitely a problem.
BeastOfCaerbanog2 votesMeanwhile over at 
's.
"Yeeees, her stun it totally broken, zero skill, nerf that shit!"
Melledoneus2 votesVeigar is his own brand of annoying, but his only CC is delayed and telegraphed.
Overlord Forte2 votesThe purpose of a control mage (which is half of Syndra's archetype) is effective denial and control. The range of her abilities, as well as the extreme effect / cooldowns of her control tools, drive this point home. Assassins have to circumvent her tools to get in range, via whatever means specifically available to them. Otherwise, if this control pattern didn't work, the loss of power in her kit would be catastrophic enough to plummet to a failure-tier pick.
If you get hit by her E / (Q+E) combo, she successfully repelled your efforts to exploit her close range weaknesses. Disengage, or try to force the matter with more tools, as her E has a massive cooldown compared to many mobility and ranged combat tools.
If you get around it, she's in one of the worst positions imaginable and has to:
Out damage / race to the death.
Run away, her W may or may not help in this regard.
Pop Summoners that may or may not matter if the enemy has theirs.
The only Assassins notably different from their previous incarnations is Talon, whose loss of his instant blink made this lane match up kind of an auto-lose for him. But, he has that issue against a lot of the mage line ups who were built to deal with the problem of his instant blink. The other Assassins maintain their efficacy as they did before, for the most part. Some are more dangerous now, while others are not.
Assassins who do not play around her, or other mage tools, will get walked all over in their lanes. I've fought plenty of pre-nerf Fizz, Talon, Zed, LeBlanac, etcetra, players who simply didn't obey the nature of the lane correctly. Or sat around and tried the same thing over and over, then complained when it didn't work. Assassins have very binary engagement conditions, but they have more than one, and waiting around is never good for them. The long game favors the mages.
TheHappyReaperz1 votesRanged mages with CC: I was going to make a list, but then I realized literally every mage has some form of CC.
TeCoolMage2 votes
I think you can play all of these champions as mages with either their normal or a very off meta build...
Ezreal, Lucian and Nidalee I think are the only ones without slows either