Boards›Gameplay

Top Lane needs a big rework.

McFatal··1 votes·734 views

in high elo, if you dont play the meta champs, you're going to have a god awful time. in high elo, whoever gets the jungle gank wins the lane. i played riven once vs a full team of d1s including an irelia top and a lee jungle.

every single time that lee recalled, he ganked me.

i was ganked and dove 10 times before 12 minutes. i had the bush warded but it didnt matter because irelia had ninja tabis and sheen so she melted my hp bar before i could even react to the lee flash kicking me.

if you arent playing Fiora Camille Jayce Kennen Irelia Maokai Nautilus Renekton

you will have one of the worst laning phase experiences known to man.

and yes i know "but the riven mains are in challenger!!!" bullshit exists, but thats because in one of those games, they dont get dove level 6 and completely fucked.

every single one of the champs mentioned above can ask for one gank level 6 to just end the lane right there and then.

level 6 comes a renekton with level 6 and 100-0 under your tower without you even having a chance to respond if he gets a gank.

after that you no longer get to play the lane.

top lane needs to be offered something new.

champs like renek need to be offered counterplay.

if renek sees any sort of lead, there is no chance in hell you're ever going to be abel to cs again.

ninja tabis makes SURE that tanks will dick you down early game with their junglers.

playing someone like riven in this meta ensures that after 6 you WILL die every single gank under tower or without flash.

for the love of god do something about renekton and all of these tanky bruisers with fucking true damage and ninja tabis.

champions like tryndmaere, who you dont see often, honestly give me ptsd when they are picked.

just knowing that if he gets lucky with his crits, im instantly going to lose lane is just a terrible feeling.

i rarely ever get help in this lane.

maybe its because im riven and everything thinks im the best player in the world off that, but regardless of me asking for help in the nicest way possible, it feels like ganking top is taboo to some junglers.

8 Comments

Tormentula1 votes

What I read in this thread:

A Riven main got tilted by constant ganks top lane

The strategy works confirmed.

No its not the meta champs deciding top, its the counterplay to riven in high elo is to camp her cause a behind riven pretty much does nothing. There's nothing unusual in this situation besides you getting outplayed. "But dove under tow-" yea no, he can dive you but that's not riven being bad or top sucking, that's your team captilizing on objectives like dragon and bot lane meanwhile. Regarding the snowball up there, that really shouldn't be an issue considering the itemization options available to top laners (why didn't you build ninja tabis?) Sure renekton or pantheon can become bullshit really fast, but thats where the skill in stalling to late game comes in when they fall off, or knowing better and not picking a snowball champ (riv) into another snowball champ (renek) knowing first kill decides that lane instead of being something more passive or flexible in lane.

McFatal1 votes

{quoted}

What I read in this thread:

A Riven main got tilted by constant ganks top lane

The strategy works confirmed.

No its not the meta champs deciding top, its the counterplay to riven in high elo is to camp her cause a behind riven pretty much does nothing. There's nothing unusual in this situation besides you getting outplayed. "But dove under tow-" yea no, he can dive you but that's not riven being bad or top sucking, that's your team captilizing on objectives like dragon and bot lane meanwhile.

its not even riven at all honestly. i was just giving an example.

even the meta champs themselves can get dicked down by just 1 dive.

the comeback mechanic top is nonexistant.

dying once or falling behind just a little bit ensures u cant farm anymore.

there is no "just play safe under tower" mechanic for champs that are a bit behind that dont go full tank.

the jungle role affects top so goddamn much that its insane what duoing with a jungler that ganks top once will do.

all you need is 1 successful gank and you can snowball heavily off of it.

CyberViper1 votes

[deleted]

McFatal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Daniel Michael,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jEgYkcjn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-05T03:03:17.676+0000)

Ur a biased Riven main and there's a lot of counter play for every champion you mentioned

please name the counterplay for renekton.

please name it.

go ahead and tell me to wait for jungle ganks and prove me rigth in my entire post.

again it has nothing to do with riven but you're so stuck up on that shit you refuse to talk about anything else.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}

please name the counterplay for renekton.

please name it.

According to Champion.gg and their statistics for Diamond+ Renekton games with over 100 recorded matchups, Renekton has a 45% or lower win-rate against the following:

  • Teemo
  • Quinn
  • Kled
  • Talon
  • Tahm Kench

I'll discount Talon and Tahm Kench, since those aren't usually seen top lane.

Renekton also has a 45-49% win-rate against the following:

  • Kayle
  • Jax
  • Singed
  • Lissandra
  • Darius
  • Jayce
  • Swain
  • Mordekaiser
  • Malphite
  • Illaoi
  • Sion

This is because all of these champions can do one of the following to Renekton:

  • Poke him down and stay safely out of range (Teemo, Quinn, Kayle, Jayce, Swain, Lissandra)
  • Duel him directly (Jax, Darius, Mordekaiser)
  • Ignore him and bring greater utility (Sion, Singed, Malphite)
  • Play safe by zoning him (Illaoi, Lissandra, Sion)

So he definitely has both counters and counterplay, although I'll admit he can often be pretty frustrating.

McFatal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jEgYkcjn,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-03-05T03:55:31.129+0000)

According to Champion.gg and their statistics for Diamond+ Renekton games with over 100 recorded matchups, Renekton has a 45% or lower win-rate against the following:

  • Teemo
  • Quinn
  • Kled
  • Talon
  • Tahm Kench

I'll discount Talon and Tahm Kench, since those aren't usually seen top lane.

Renekton also has a 45-49% win-rate against the following:

  • Kayle
  • Jax
  • Singed
  • Lissandra
  • Darius
  • Jayce
  • Swain
  • Mordekaiser
  • Malphite
  • Illaoi
  • Sion

This is because all of these champions can do one of the following to Renekton:

  • Poke him down and stay safely out of range (Teemo, Quinn, Kayle, Jayce, Swain, Lissandra)
  • Duel him directly (Jax, Darius, Mordekaiser)
  • Ignore him and bring greater utility (Sion, Singed, Malphite)
  • Play safe by zoning him (Illaoi, Lissandra, Sion)

So he definitely has both counters and counterplay, although I'll admit he can often be pretty frustrating.

most of who u mentioned were ranged champs.

im talking melee champs.

darius renek are not even lanes.

renek wil destroy darius easily if played on an even level.

swain as well.

morde sion dont stand a chance.

renek can move around them freely and just do whatever he wants.

illaoi is a lane winning champ with renek so i guess you're right in that both can be won by either champ.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted} im talking melee champs.

Again, those are the current patch statistics for match-ups in Diamond+ ranked games. So those melee champs do, on average, end up winning the game (if not necessarily the lane) against Renekton.

I'm not saying top doesn't have issues that could be improved, of course, but I'm just presenting the statistical evidence that we have access to that shows that Renekton can indeed by beaten by some melee champions.

Sexualsaurus1 votes

You aren't really mean't to beat a renekton in lane, you beat him by outscalling him. Some champions have little counterplay late game, I never get help top lane either. Most of my junglers are not the greatest of players but you should never rely on your jungler anyway in solo queue. Chances are your jungler's only interaction with you is a leash and after that you'll never see them again so just pretend they don't exist. You can't get mad/upset at something if it never existed in the first place.

No one is gonna carry you in soloque so you have two options A) complain about the champions you're against, your teammates, etc or B) you can go down into the trenches and get to work.

Complaining gets you nowhere, you gotta deal with the shit thrown at you and move on. "A bad attitude is like a flat tire, you can't go anywhere until you change it"

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