Tell me again elo hell isn't real

JhomasTefferson·Aug 31, 2015·7 votes·1,181 views

Every game can't be carried. It can't. I went 17/11/7 as xin, downed 6 of the seven towers, solo'd baron while my team was pushing once we aced them, kept vision on drag and baron. Tried to ward other places, ganked the ahead lanes, got 3 drags, never was really caught out of position. Made for the most part good decisions, and still, I lose, and i'm in bronze. I tried to encourage my team to get upgraded trinkets. They wouldn't. I tried to tell them what to do, they won't listen and keep trying to fight a deathball of 5 of them, who they fed really hard. I was literally the only person positive on the team. The next best was a jayce who had a .5 kd. And i get score isn't everything, but all these stats. I was only one person. I can't ward everywhere. NO one was sup cuz duo adc isn't bad. So no one had sightstone, and no one had sweeper. I had a build for the match, since they were mostly ad. But still, i couldn't carry. I don't believe it's possible to "solo carry" most games. Maybe some, but your team has to at least try. Also, and this isn't really related to this game, but did happen once. I was the only decent player on the team. Everyone else was ofer. No one was warding and feeding pretty bad. But I'm doing ok, and we're a lategame team anyway. So they surrendered. And they don't need me to do that. If your team gives up, how are you supposed to carry? checkmate elo hell doubters.

34 Comments

Colgate GatorSep 1, 20156 votes

What about the game where you picked Teemo and went 4/13 and got carried? Or your 5/17 game with Yasuo?

Yes, I can cherrypick matches as well. There are games that are won and others that are lost, and in these there are games where you will be the highlight and others where you will be the deadweight.

The Elo hell is in all of us.

JhomasTeffersonSep 17, 20151 votes

You cherrypicked there. My match history is looking different these days, but someone pointed out that teemo you just talked about. It had 14 assists too. did i do well? no, but again, you cherrypicked. there are times when the last 20 or however many games come up in match history for me are very good. do we all have good games, no. However, i found that at the time of writing this post i was the "highlight" in a disproportionately high number of matched and "deadweight"(which i wasn't even in that teemo example. check stats) in a disproportionately low number of matches.

TavishSep 23, 20151 votes

Then you should climb...

Edit: And if you died 11 times on Xin "and never got caught", you have a very different definition of caught because the odds you died 11 times and never were in a bad position seem astronomically low.

JhomasTeffersonSep 23, 20151 votes

Caught to me is when i'm in a place i shouldn't have been alone for no reason. At drag pinging for assist and having my laners stand in lane while their laners leave to kill me for clearing their ward on drag after dropping a pink does not count as caught to me, it counts as bad teammates. Also diving the enemy adc, killing it, and having my team on screen but running away when their adc is dead and i get the enemy mid laner down to half health while my team doesn't respond, when they were in a good position to respond, also does not count as caught. I was caught a few times probably. But not 11. probably about 6. Which may still be to many, but score isn't a good indication of how well, or poor, one performs overall because of the variables i listed in addition to many others.

edit; in the dive situation i described, i dove into four of them, their top mid adc and supp. their jung was top. We had all 5 of our guys mid, which was where this happened, and they all had over 3/4 health and over half mana. That may not have been this same game, but i know as xin that happens to me a lot. I hit adc, ult the others away, the adc flashes, i q onto them, kill them, then switch focus to the mage, just to be more descriptive of the situation.

CreationFlawSep 1, 20153 votes

Elo heal isn't real.

MrfishiiAug 31, 20152 votes

It sucks, I know. Happens to all of us. I got a pentakill one game 15-20 mins in, 9/1/? and still lost. I won't say it exists but for sure some of the players are...not the brightest. The issue is with the ranked system is that you have to carry the game. You don't only have to do well, you have to carry your team, and the big part of that is closing the game out ASAP before the enemy team catches up. There's not much else you can do. Hate to say it but be greedy, don't sacrifice yourself for teammates, don't give them kills if you need gold more, because you can really only depend on yourself in Solo Queue.

AtheosisXSep 1, 20151 votes

This really isn't true. Hard carrying leads to faster climbing but simply playing well, working with your team, and trying to get all your teammates into roles they want will result in climbing over time.

Vicarious117Sep 1, 20152 votes

Well 17/11/7 isn't a good score, first of all, but yes not every game is winnable, sometimes you just get that one player, or sometimes more, on your team that just can't help but hardcore feed or just continuously gets caught by themselves over and over and over again. There is very little anyone at any ELO can do to win that kind of match.

However, the reason ELO hell doesn't exist is because everyone in your match should be the same skill level, so if you "deserve" to be higher ELO then you're better then everyone else in that match and if you are in fact better and play your role well you will win the game for your team by simply doing your job MOST OF THE TIME. No one is expected to have a 90% win rate while climbing the ELO ladder, but unless Riot's stupid as shit MMR algorithm has fucked you over like it has me then simply having an above 50% win rate will be enough for you to climb.

And if you are in fact better then you may still lose those impossible to win games, but you will win most other games, that's just a fact. If you have a below 50% win rate, then sorry to say but you just aren't good enough to climb the ladder.

But yeah, learn from my mistake, don't play with a friend who you know isn't good at all and also at a much lower MMR then you, cause even losing 40% of your games with them will DESTROY your MMR permanently, then you'll need like a 60% winrate just for a steady climb like I do.... I have a 54% and am steadily dropping, makes sense, right? :P

P.S. Also your average KDAs are horrible, meaning you very rarely carry a game by yourself. I'm personally not climbing very quickly, due to my MMR situation, yet my average KDAs and objective control are above average, meaning even though I lose a decent amount I still very rarely feed. That makes a huge difference.

JhomasTeffersonSep 1, 20151 votes

Having above a 50% win rate doesn't seem to help. If i lose, i lose 25 lp usually, if i win, i gain anywhere from 13 to 20. Also, if k/d/a's can't be evidence of being good, they can't be evidence of being bad. And I had good objective control also. And i just did the math for just my k/d in my last 20 or so games, and it comes out to around 1.5. Sure, i have some bad games, but most of the time i go even at the very least and i'm usually ahead. So i don't get your postscript there...

Vicarious117Sep 2, 20151 votes

1.5 is horrendous, like that's really, really bad. If I end a game under 2.0 - 2.5 (ish) it typically means I didn't do well enough or didn't end soon enough, giving up more kills then necessary.

As for the LP loss and gain, yeah that's the problem I have, I lost too many games with a friend of mine who was far below before the restrictions on duo Q rank differences was added, and it just wrecked my MMR. However there is another way to get to that, it's by having a bad kda consistently (which the game does in fact recognize) as well as having below a 50% winrate for too long. That's the system trying to lower you to where you "belong" according to it's algorithm. I have this issue and am still climbing, slowly but I'm steadily going up, which means my account is screwed but I'm still performing well enough to go up, but if you're staying where you are or going down then your account is probably fine and it's just the system reacting accordingly.

That's what the postscript was for, pointing out that maybe you shouldn't be complaining about your teams and blaming "ELO hell" and focusing more on your poor performances. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that's probably the nicest you'll hear it from this community.

JhomasTeffersonSep 18, 20151 votes

Under 1 is really bad, under 2 is decent imo, but i suppose you could be right... But that 2nd point about the kda wasnt something i ever thought of. And again, with bringing up my other performances. I didn't. I know i have bad ones. Everyone does. Maybe that was my problem tho. I was worried about going on tilt, so if i had a game where i went like 5/15 id be like ok, that was shit, i kept qing to soon or something, and move on to the next one. But when i moved onto the next one, the system saw my shit kda from last game. However, I will continue to blame bad teams where that blame is due, which is more often than a lot of people think. I find myself able to carry consistently if I have one person on my team who is willing to actually work with me to make plays, and competent enough to do so. Very consistently. The only times i really notice situations like this are when my Whole team is bad. Like, have no idea how to play their champs or when to push objectives or to at least put wards on the map - never mind in good places - or play safe when a jungler keeps camping them, or really do anything. 3 of the 4 can be really bad. The one that isn't doesn't even have to be doing well. Just listen maybe. But when four are doing bad i can't carry them. And, due to the consistency i have in situations like this, i am confident in saying that either i have a problem where if my whole team is bad i go on tilt and lose the game for myself, or more likely, having a shit team will lose you games.

Vicarious117Sep 23, 20151 votes

Omfg that paragraph... that hurts my eyes..... please use appropriate spacing.... christ......

But no, under 2 is still bad, it's like a 1/2/1 kda, so like 4/8/4, or even 8/8/0, that's BAD, it means you died 8 times! That should never happen if you want to carry.... well unless you're like 15/8/20, but in that case unless it was a comeback win then the game shouldn't have lasted that long anyway. So yeah the BEST you can do with a 2.0 kda is break even.... which something you do as a consolation when losing a game, "at least I went even." It's not something you should be averaging if you want to carry.

2.5 could be acceptable, but you should still be aiming for AT LEAST 3.0 if you want to carry.

I mean yeah I blame bad teams when they were definitely bad too, we all get those games where you're 10 mins in and you just KNOW it's already over cause everyone is losing so hard already that there is no chance you can solo carry or they refuse to listen to you so you never push the right objectives or they just keep chasing and getting caught when you're always pinging them off. The thing is though, if you deserve better, and can truly carry, then you should STILL be able to win more then half the time and climb up. The enemy team will usually be just as bad just as often, so if you're better then you can beat them, there is NO WAY you get the 4 worst players on your team out of 10 everytime, especially with those kdas.

I recommend playing more normals and getting more mechanically sound with your main champions, and get good with at least 3 champs in each role, EVEN SUPPORT. I mean statistically support mains climb out of low elo the fastest, cause no one else can do it well but typically have that one other carry role they're better at, and supports are more often then not the players who win bot lane, not the adc or jungler, the support. SO get 2-3 champs in each role to a point where you can get a constant 2.5 kda AT LEAST then go back to ranked. At your current rate, you're not going up anywhere.

JhomasTeffersonSep 23, 20151 votes

if someone went 1/2/1 their kda is 1. if it was 2/2/2 their kda is 2. I think you misread what i was trying to say, or i have a different definition of kda than everyone else.

And that's usually what makes me rage. When I'm a level 4 yi and bot lane is already 0/4 together and they want me to gank, and since I'm not they just feed more and blame me for not ganking. If i ever play a farm jungler that happens every time.

Then when you say "as a jungler, you actually shouldn't gank losing lanes, unless it's a really sure thing, and you shouldn't go near feeding lanes at all" they tell you you're retarded and have no idea what jung should do. That happens every time i play Jax or Yi jung. OR top lane too. It's hardly ever mid for some reason. They go 0/4 at like 7 minutes to a riven and I'm not even level 6 yet and riven is level 7. They want me to gank and i tell them i can't just quit feeding, they tell me I'm bad. They start typing in all chat "Must be nice having a jungler" Then when i tell them they're bad, they rage at me and say "omg 15 min in 0 ganks from you" I tell them again that because they fed so much ganking would have led to my death and i would just be feeding too at that point. Were there some opportunities to gank, not really maybe some, but they're opportunities like this. bot lane, after feeding the fuck out of vayne usually thinks that because they got one favorable trade off on her and she's like half health and her supp blitz is still around 3/4 i should be ganking when I'm busy killing the enemy jungler in top side jungle. They then go all in on them and get easily 2v1d and blame me. Similar situations happen all the time. It's just so often a bot lane feeding vayne, or voli, or jinx, orr thresh, or both. or a top lane feeding riven or nasus or darius.

I get it at supp too. I play supp a bit. And sometimes i take the kill. On blitz and voli, since they're able to be so tanky and usually get away from bad situations, i run ignite and exhaust. I land a hook on the adc at level 2 or over and even with flash they will die 95% of the time unless it's a super disengage duo like vayne or trist and janna or nami. They're probably my two best supps, my third being morg. But, with ignite on those two, and with the morg w, it's kinda easy to take the kills accidentally. SO they tell me i'm bad. So i tell them that they don't know what supp is for. Feeding the adc is a secondary job. The primary job is to keep them safe to farm, get the adc as much gold as possible, and provide(usually) utility and vision and vision control to the team. By making the enemy dead i've accomplished the first two at least in part. Now with eh enemy adc dead they are much better able to farm until they get back, we can usually harass the supp until they have to back, so we establish level advantage too, so i'm actually doing a really good thing, even if I take the kill. But because i took the kill, I'm a shit supp. It can happen a lot as blitz and voli and morg just in general. Sometimes they do a lot more burst with their abilities than expected.

Stuff like that, when people have no idea what the responsibilities of a role are and call you bad for actually playing it correctly, makes me believe in elo hell.

edit: by kda i mean (kills + assists)/deaths . That value should be at least over two. Examples are 4/2/0, 0/2/4, and 2/2/2, 1/2/3 and 3/2/1 or a ratio of those scores at the minimum.

Vicarious117Sep 27, 20151 votes

Not gonna lie.... that's just way too much to read and out of the bit I got it seems like you're just once again circling around what I was saying even though I already agreed yes some times teams are uncarriable.

So yeah sorry but no I just really don't want to read all of that AGAIN.

But I did see that last part, and you are correct about kdas, 2/2/2 is a 2.0 kda as is 4/2/0, same as 16/8/0. Doesn't make any of those much better, those are still scores I get when I lose a game and make the best of my awful team, usually. Not too mention yours are at least half the time below 2.0 anyway, which means my point still applies just at lower values, slightly.

JhomasTeffersonSep 29, 20151 votes

Short version

Whenever I have a farm jungler, my team is feeding and in need of ganks at 4 minutes because they've already given up a bunch of kills

When you tell them junglers shouldn't go to feeding lanes, they rage at you.

When i play a supp like blitz or voli, i run ignite and exhaust. Their ms buff is enough to get away if i play kinda safe. Sometimes i take the kill. I tell adc that "at least they're dead, you can farm in peace." the response is "so trash supp, why run ignite, you just ks."

Stuff like that, when people tell you how to play roles "correctly" when they themselves only have the faintest idea.

And i know 2.0 isn't good. but if you have at least that, i usually think i did decently well that game. If I'm under that i look more at what i could have done better. If I'm over it i feel like i overall had a good game but just wasn't good enough to carry, but i know i'm doing fairly good with the champ, i just need a little more work, or my teammates were too braindead to be carried.

Vicarious117Sep 30, 20151 votes

You are correct in saying all of that is annoying, but if you KNOW you are correct, then mute your raging teammates and proceed to carry if you really do deserve to rank up.

What doesn't seem to fit what you're saying though is that you say "If I'm under that (as in 2.0 kda) I look more at what I could have done better." But your average kdas are largely in fact under it, meaning most games you finish under 2.0. And yet here we are, in a thread about bad teams.

You are correct in thinking that once above 2.0 in a lost game you did ok, or most likely you did ok. But you average just below it, so maybe just practice your main champs in every single role some more in normals until you can consistently be getting above 2.0 kdas in lost games, higher in victories, to the point where you're consistently getting JUST victories. Then go back to ranked and always say "fill" if you're not one of the first few picks (in which case say your top 2/3 choices, you're more likely to get a role you pref if you pref more then one), cause if you are in fact good enough to not be bronze, then you can fill and win most games.

JhomasTeffersonOct 1, 20151 votes

I made this thread to complain about one game. ONE GAME in which i did kinda well but the enemy team did very well and i had no help from my team. If you had checked the stat page i had like 6 of the 7 tower drops, had to solo drag a couple times, and lost cuz they didn't just stay under tower to defend and walked out into lane while i was soloing baron and by the time i got back to base they'd dropped an inhib and nexus tower.

What doesn't seem to fit what you're saying though is that you say "If I'm under that (as in 2.0 kda) I look more at what I could have done better." But your average kdas are largely in fact under it, meaning most games you finish under 2.0. And yet here we are, in a thread about bad teams.

Can't you see this is me saying i fuck up too. You can all see my match history.

I made this thread to say that not every game is winnable. I realized since then that you don't have to win every game, but i still believe that not every game is winnable. I went 12/5/24 as J4 once. I was on. I controlled baron, i always was putting pinks on drag and controlling it. I exerted good pressure, kept up in farms, all that shit. I played probably the best that i ever had, and i still lost. And that's shitty. The whole argument of this thread is that you can't "solo carry". You need a team with you. So you're bit:

You are correct in saying all of that is annoying, but if you KNOW you are correct, then mute your raging teammates and proceed to carry if you really do deserve to rank up.

Really, it just makes you look like you didn't read op and are making judgements on shit that you know nothing about, and arguing on something you don't understand.

I know i said "elo hell" in my post, but that's relating to the amount of games you have to "solo carry" if everyone on your team just shits the bed all the time. It's nearly impossible to "solo carry", but to do it over and over again. Lets say you have two games in a row where your team is just shit. That's a major setback if you're not "good" enough to "solo carry" -which means you got lucky and had one person on your team that wasn't a fuck up and could work with you and actually knew how to cs- and you lose a bunch of lp. The constant cycle, the slow grind of gaining lp, only to lose a bunch of it to stupid teammates, is elo hell. It can be climbed out of, i kinda agree now, as i am slowly climbing, and whenever i lose i just blame my teammates and move on to the next game and maybe lose that too, but it's been averaging out that I'm gaining lp overall. So by elo hell, i mean the slow ass grindy process which i need to go through to rank up.

Also, people look through my history. Who's saying I'm getting my main role, a role I'm good at, or even a champ I'm very familiar with every game? I main Jung, but I'm decent at top and mid. Do you know how often i have to adc or supp? Mid i usually go with yasuo fizz akali and sometimes teemo. But you can bet i play a lot more than that in ranked, just because of how often even with 4 champs you can be banned out. Now imagine i have to supp. I don't have many supp champs I'm good with to begin with. Im good with blitz and morg, and ok with janna and voli. Morg gets banned they take blitz, who's oppressive as fuck to begin with, and I'm not the best supp too. Then i have to supp, a role I'm not good at, with a champ I'm only ok with. But i should still be doing awesome, right?

And, when you guys look through my match history, do you turn of normals? I feel like half the time you people are judging me for the games when i try new champs in normals and am kinda retarded cuz i think I'm way better with them than i am.

Vicarious117Oct 3, 20151 votes

Sorry gave up reading after the like, second paragraph of the five or six.... just too much to read....

And plz, calm down, did you just lose another match, get upset, come to the forums to complain, and saw I replied and blew all your anger out at me? Even if not, still calm down.

All I'm saying, is that no matter how many on games and off games you have, if you AVERAGE a bad kda, then you're not supposed to be climbing, which is why I suggested practice until your kda improves CONSISTENTLY. Having one game every so often where you go 12/5/21 or w/e the fuck it was is irrelevant when the rest are more often then not below a 2.0.

It's all about that average, and if you're averaging "bad," then you're not gonna be climbing the ranks until you start averaging better.

Otherwise you'll have to keep relying on your teams to be decent if not great and on point, and when they're not, you'll keep losing. Like I started off this whole thing with, I climbed up with a screwed MMR and am still steadily climbing, cause I can carry most games on my own. Yes SOME games are unwinnable, but no where near enough to create this none existent "elo hell."

DarthSpectrumSep 1, 20152 votes

You can't win them all.

Xin isn't a good champion to carry as any ways, and since you died 11 times, there are probably equally powerful champions on the other team as well. If you want hard carries, you generally need strong AOE damage or team fighting power.

Try Annie , who can obliterate half the team by herself, or MasterYi .

darkmatchwaldoSep 1, 20152 votes

can't win em all item 3070

SasogwaSep 2, 20152 votes

The fact you did well in one game, with a questionable build (zeke ? sunfire ? triforce unneeded you got way enough damage with bork + sated) You also win games where you get carried (omg dat Fizz build, MY EYES... THEY ARE BURNING item 3717 item 3027 item 3151 item 3116 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO) note : full HP does not make you so tanky (you need resists), and it's not cause those items grant AP and HP that they are good on Fizz. 4/13/13 Teemo with Nashors/Liandry/Zhonya.. Great until that random Trinity Force that popped out. Wut -And the score is pretty bad, I guess you didn't carry that one at all 5/1 Yasuo with 170 farm in 21 min. That's actually very good 2/5/15 Ali.. yea not bad 12/10/15 Yas 10/10/10 Voli average 5/17/4 Yas. You certainly didn't carry that one 10/8/4 Tryn 7/6/8 Yas average

The thing that you probably don't take in account is that since you're in bronze 4, your laning opponents are in bronze 4 MMR as well. If you're worth more, you should completely annihilate them. An average KDA in bronze would not be as good against silvers, and it'd be even harder against golds, etc. If you want to climb, you have to show you're better, you have to consistently carry every game. I've been in low elo for a short period on my one smurf. Dude, this is incredibly carriable if you have a higher level. I won 80% of my games and carried hard 90% of the games I lost. There are games you can't win. This is a really small minority though, so this argument to prove elo hell is invalid.

JhomasTeffersonSep 18, 20151 votes

In general I do average. I would say without any vanity that i have more good games than bad. But i do have bad ones. Everyone does though. And those games that are unwinnable, isn't it possible- despite being statistically very unlikely- that I'm always on the losing team of those games and that I'm in those games every time I play.

I know i have bad games. But even for my bad games(usually) i still ward and have enough assists that my score isn't complete garbage. Some of the people I'm matched with tho, they don't ward, they don't help, they avoid the team when the team needs them, they don't have any map awareness, and in some cases they try to kill you.

The fizz build was good at the time. Since the bruiser fizz nerfs its gone down tho. I realized later into it that iceborn and abyssal might have been better choices. However, i still get roa on fizz because the health and ap it gives are good investments, and the level up heal that it gives lets me get punished in trades a bit more and still come out ahead once i level up. Then I'm at decent health and my opponent is probably low. and I'm fizz. Liandrys gives you more %health damage, which is good. Rylais doubles the damage done by liandrys, and makes sticking to anyone easy. After that you could get botrk and trinity force on him. Trinity is good on many champs imo, but too expensive and not quite what they need in a lot of situations. Botrk gave him sustain and more % health damage. So with that build i could destroy anyone. It came about as a result of the cinder hulk meta, and skirmishing smite went really well in with fizz, since it gave him on hit over time true damage, and reduced damage by the target to him, making his dueling insane. The rest of the build could be just anything with health and ap because of the synergy with cinderhulk. Think about it. Fizz is annoying usually when he is hopping around on troll poll. But when he's not on it he's easy to kill. Now he can just be hard to kill in general, and if really scary stuff comes his way he can hop onto troll pole. Honestly Hourglass should have gone into it to be funnier. But it was a really good build, probably one of my most successful ever. And because it included no additional armor or mr, just a lot of health, it was good against a variety of team comps. Those items in general might not be good on fizz, i agree. But with cinder hulk they give him everything he needs. Sure he's not a tank, but he isn't a tank to begin with. He's a bruiser. All that health just enables him to be more survivable. Like usually if you get hit with a morg root as fizz you die right? Now you don't. You hit anyone in the face who comes up to hit you, then once the root ends you trollpole away or onto them, depending on how much damage you took. I know it looks weird, but try it. And if you're mid, take smite and ignite. On a fizz build like this e is ur flash, so be careful with it.

Trinity force on teemo, ad, ms on hit, ap, mana, attack speed and movement speed, and spell blade, which isn't the most relevant on teemo, but still good. Make the next attack after ur blind or w really good

Trinity force on xin, ap gives him better sustain with w, he casts his spells a lot, so spell blade makes sense, and the rest is synergy with his kit. The team i was against was probably ad heavy. So zekes and sunfire both give armor. Zekes gives mana and ap too. Try it on xin. When it procs he turns into an unkillable beast because the bonus ap makes everything heal him more with w, and he's critting a lot. And sunfire was for more damage health and tankiness.

Thanks for actually putting thought into your comment bro.

SasogwaSep 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

In general I do average. I would say without any vanity that i have more good games than bad. But i do have bad ones. Everyone does though. And those games that are unwinnable, isn't it possible- despite being statistically very unlikely- that I'm always on the losing team of those games and that I'm in those games every time I play.

I know i have bad games. But even for my bad games(usually) i still ward and have enough assists that my score isn't complete garbage. Some of the people I'm matched with tho, they don't ward, they don't help, they avoid the team when the team needs them, they don't have any map awareness, and in some cases they try to kill you.

The fizz build was good at the time. Since the bruiser fizz nerfs its gone down tho. I realized later into it that iceborn and abyssal might have been better choices. However, i still get roa on fizz because the health and ap it gives are good investments, and the level up heal that it gives lets me get punished in trades a bit more and still come out ahead once i level up. Then I'm at decent health and my opponent is probably low. and I'm fizz. Liandrys gives you more %health damage, which is good. Rylais doubles the damage done by liandrys, and makes sticking to anyone easy. After that you could get botrk and trinity force on him. Trinity is good on many champs imo, but too expensive and not quite what they need in a lot of situations. Botrk gave him sustain and more % health damage. So with that build i could destroy anyone. It came about as a result of the cinder hulk meta, and skirmishing smite went really well in with fizz, since it gave him on hit over time true damage, and reduced damage by the target to him, making his dueling insane. The rest of the build could be just anything with health and ap because of the synergy with cinderhulk. Think about it. Fizz is annoying usually when he is hopping around on troll poll. But when he's not on it he's easy to kill. Now he can just be hard to kill in general, and if really scary stuff comes his way he can hop onto troll pole. Honestly Hourglass should have gone into it to be funnier. But it was a really good build, probably one of my most successful ever. And because it included no additional armor or mr, just a lot of health, it was good against a variety of team comps. Those items in general might not be good on fizz, i agree. But with cinder hulk they give him everything he needs. Sure he's not a tank, but he isn't a tank to begin with. He's a bruiser. All that health just enables him to be more survivable. Like usually if you get hit with a morg root as fizz you die right? Now you don't. You hit anyone in the face who comes up to hit you, then once the root ends you trollpole away or onto them, depending on how much damage you took. I know it looks weird, but try it. And if you're mid, take smite and ignite. On a fizz build like this e is ur flash, so be careful with it.

Trinity force on teemo, ad, ms on hit, ap, mana, attack speed and movement speed, and spell blade, which isn't the most relevant on teemo, but still good. Make the next attack after ur blind or w really good

Trinity force on xin, ap gives him better sustain with w, he casts his spells a lot, so spell blade makes sense, and the rest is synergy with his kit. The team i was against was probably ad heavy. So zekes and sunfire both give armor. Zekes gives mana and ap too. Try it on xin. When it procs he turns into an unkillable beast because the bonus ap makes everything heal him more with w, and he's critting a lot. And sunfire was for more damage health and tankiness.

Thanks for actually putting thought into your comment bro.

SO...

No, the fizz build was not good at the time. Yes, there is a synergy with cinderhulk, I sure understand that. But you don't need it, and you'd rather have some resists as well to amplify that effective health. Cdr is really awesome on fizz, for more stickiness, damage. So Frozen Heart for example is really awesome and seen very often in competitive builds. Trinity force is a classic on fizz. Skirmisher is fine. Rylai/liandrys? Meh, you don't need that. It's extremely expensive for the amount of damage/tankiness it provides. I'd rather get botrk if I want damage against tanks, and what's great with it is it makes your damage largely hybrid, and harder to itemize against. But it doesn't give tankiness, fine. But you can get a second quite tanky item, such as item 3143 item 3102 item 3001 is very good too, due to Fizz high base damage -> synergy with flat pen, more than AP ratios. But it doesn't synergize with Cinderhulk, so it's up to you.

ROA sucks though. Understand me. Yeah it gives AP, health, mana. But it's way too long to get rolling, these stats on Fizz are ... meh. On Fizz either you profit of your high base damages and take a bruisery build that amplifies that with the classical one-two damage item wonders that are item 3078 item 3153 Or you go for a full AP scaling build and get something like item 3020 item 3157 item 3089 item 3135 item 3100 + whatever (cdr is good, maybe morellos. So good that you might wanna take lucidity boots instead of sorcerer, it's 50/50). So you assure yourself that everything scales well with itself to be able to like, one shoot squishies. Flat AP given from ROA that doesn't really have scaling with anything in your build, is really weak damage-wise, compared to the one-two damage item wonders I talked about, because these have huge base damage, and weak scaling with other offensive items. Contrary to what some people might think, botrk is hardly a lategame item, but a great midgame powerspike/ or only damage item, because it has weak synergy with the rest of AD stats (no critical for on-hit for instance)

For Teemo, the thing is Trinity Force. Well it's fine, but as I explained earlier Trinity Force is a really weak item in terms of scaling. You take Triforce if you get bruiser ( sometimes with a item 3153 ) some rare exceptions are AD carries that have stupidly high synergy with it ( Corki Ezreal KogMaw ) but it affects their lategame power. The only one of them that doesn't care is Kog because he has huge lategame anyway. So it'd be ok on a bruiser Teemo (example : boots + item 3078 item 3143 item 3001 item 3151 )

On a full AP teemo, just no. You use one slot on a huge cost item that like... doesn't bring enough of the scaling stat you want. If you're full AP, you want freaking SCALING. %pen from void, % AP from rabadons, additional scaling from things like Luden's/Lichbane, the awesome active of Zhonyas. You still get Liandrys, mostly because it's great with shrooms; but it is also good on bruisery builds because of the %health damage with no AP scaling, and the flat pen is always cool to have.

Why botrk on Xin? Just because you get devourer. Botrk has such ridiculous synergy with sated that it's too good to pass on. And Zeke/Sunfire arguably have stats you want, but they are really suboptimal. See, Sunfire is great when you have really low damage to have a pseudo-tanky item that gives you the damage you don't have. When you already have quite high damage output, the flat increase it provides is not enough compared to the need of tankiness you have. Randuins/Dead man's provide much more tankiness, and you really need that. Kinda same for Zeke. You'd rather have a more tanky-dedicated item. But well, it can be a good choice if you have a good carry to put that on too, and you're already beefy enough (I feel you weren't).

Valderis VandalaSep 1, 20151 votes

Please explain to me how you died 11 times yet you didn't get caught out of position and made mostly good decisions?

Because that death stat and your description of yourself simply don't match.

JhomasTeffersonSep 1, 20151 votes

If k/d/a can't be evidence of being good, it can't be evidence of being bad either. Also, i was the only one threatening to the other team, so if a team fight happened i was the target of damage and cc. Also there was a blitzcrank, so since i couldn't ward everywhere he could just hide in a bush in my jung and pull me to it and another of his team. I die. Blitzcrank's counterplay is dodging the hook, as if you get hit with it, you die unless you can 2v1. That's not out of position. That's a team who won't work with you and ward. Also, i've heard from other people on the boards if i'm the only one really able to carry i need to be with the team and not alone splitting as they'll just get all killed and then the enemy team takes my base. That's why i died so much. Also, i was the tank.

Angry MonsterSep 2, 20151 votes

solo'd baron while my team was pushing once we aced them http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1936858695/217953847?tab=overview

The only time you killed baron was at 38ish minutes. Why the fuck are you doing baron instead of winning the game?

never was really caught out of position

11 deaths i am not sure i agree with that

So now your build. You built zeaks when you seem to be split pushing and not working with your team.

JhomasTeffersonSep 17, 20151 votes

The build i understand. Zekes works on xin because of the ap and crit chance it gives him, but if I'm not with the team then it doesn't work. But, many of the deaths were in fights where other teammates were present, and, to let them try to get back into the game, i would sacrifice myself to save them since i was ahead and the death wouldn't set me back too far. another person on this thread pointed out to me that that isn't smart. So, you can in fact die without being out of position see: Level two jungle cheese Yas ult over wall Blitz grab

That list could go on. And i wasn't winning the game then because i was getting baron. I told my team defend, only fight under towers. So, they got out from under the towers and died.

XealchimSep 2, 20151 votes

tbh shit just happens, for example I did extremly well in jun, and i had games i carried or got carried, got to g3 then from the end of july-till now dropped all the way back to S1 tonight so shit just happens, p.s i guess u can drop if u lose enough in a row :^)

fisoxSep 17, 20151 votes

17/11/7 *died 11 times (makes other unable to carry like yourself) *flamed your team *wasted time typing in the chat. dude try to look sometimes at their mistakes. and look at your other games makes no one able to carry you.

JhomasTeffersonSep 18, 20151 votes

I flamed my team when? And also, see other comments for explanations of my death. Also, the way i deal with teammates was addressed already. And was i talking about another game? NO, just this one. So i don't know why you all keep bringing up my other games. Also, 11 deaths was the least on the team. I would ask you to make your last sentence comprehensible, because i have no idea what you are trying to say, but the reading of the rest of your comment shows me that you don't really want to offer anything to this thread and just want to tell me I'm bad. Keep making the community look like shit, bro.

fisoxSep 18, 20151 votes

Dude youre got this game cuz or your other games. try to imagine theres some games u can carry and cant. this game you couldnt but the one you could you fed a lot.

CrukSep 18, 20151 votes

Elo hell doesnt exist, it exists only where you cannot climb any further. So my current Elo hell is plat 3. It's just when you cant advance because you cant carry as hard as you could at lower teirs, if i was in bronze silver or gold, i would win considerably more games, but since plat 3 is my cap, its my elo hell. Saying your elo hell is specific only to one person, and their skill cap is also saying the same thing that it doesnt exist. You are at your skill cap in your elo, when you improve youll climb out, good luck.

Malix FarwinSep 18, 20151 votes

Elo hell is real, its just not what you think it is. I think Elo hell is more of where you skill is currently capped at and you cant climb anymore rather then some place that is impossible to climb because "your teammates suck".