His kit now is way worse than it was before, he gets bullied by ranged all day. His w is FUCKING GARBAGE. 1.75? thats what MAYBE an auto or 2? what the fuck is that shit. thats garbo. His ult and taunt are what make him so unique and i guess "strong" but his q and w are just too weak. In order for my q to work i have to use it where im positioned, Im not a peeler im a initiator.
MrHaZeYo2 votesWeird, he's getting pro play.
Keyoshi2 votesYeah for his ult, his ult is what makes him "strong" Standunited is one of the best ults in the game, imo.
MrHaZeYo1 votesHe also does well into Maokai. Splits better then the other tanks. The point is though he isn't weak.
Quepha1 votesYeah for his ult, his ult is what makes him "strong" Standunited is one of the best ults in the game, imo.
Man that sounds exactly like pre-rework Shen.
EstebanElGuapo1 votesPre-rework shen could win lane, I believe that the new shen could too it is just that they do it differently which is unfortunate for some of us newbs who can't make the transition of styles :)
Quepha1 votesPre-rework shen could win lane, I believe that the new shen could too it is just that they do it differently which is unfortunate for some of us newbs who can't make the transition of styles :)
Pretty sure new Shen is more capable of doing something to win his lane while old Shen was less capable of losing it.
EstebanElGuapo1 votesA person in a different thread was commenting on liking for Riven a specific trade of Q-gapclose-dmg in, W-dmg-stun, auto (passive proc), E shield away as a quick free trade with little to no countertrade. That is kind of the technique that old shen had available, E gapclose-dmg-stun in, auto (passive proc), Q-dmg, W shield while walking away into your minion wave. On both champs you repeat when your cd's are up.
New shen and other riven techniques are more go in stay in trade back and forth fully and hang around for better or worse. New shen lost the upfront dmg on the passive and the Q (in exchange for it being spread out over more autos) so he cannot choose to do the old shen trade, he can't say now i have 2 options. He just has different option.
Quepha1 votesA person in a different thread was commenting on liking for Riven a specific trade of Q-gapclose-dmg in, W-dmg-stun, auto (passive proc), E shield away as a quick free trade with little to no countertrade. That is kind of the technique that old shen had available, E gapclose-dmg-stun in, auto (passive proc), Q-dmg, W shield while walking away into your minion wave. On both champs you repeat when your cd's are up.
New shen and other riven techniques are more go in stay in trade back and forth fully and hang around for better or worse. New shen lost the upfront dmg on the passive and the Q (in exchange for it being spread out over more autos) so he cannot choose to do the old shen trade, he can't say now i have 2 options. He just has different option.
A perfectly reliable, zero-counterplay trade that also had some sustain packaged in. With a certain chance of success, the champion has to be balanced around a pathetic success state outdone by almost any other trade in the game. When the result of his exchange becomes varied based on the reactions of his opponent and Shen's reactions to them in turn, then balance can allow for him to have higher highs at the cost of lower lows.
New Shen can win lane, but if he screws up he'll be worse off. Old Shen couldn't lose lane, but also couldn't really do well as his limits were clearly defined.
EstebanElGuapo1 votesoutdone by almost any other trade in the game ... allow for him to have higher highs.
Don't agree with these. Old shen could do bursts that were kill bursts. New shen has to do prolonged dmg. I got more kills with Old version than I will ever get with New shen no matter how good I do end up with him. Old Shen was legitimate finisher of squishies could do pre-enemy-mitigation 1200 or so with an ignite, with just a taunt combo (in lane, in teamfights) in the game built full tank. New Shen can't finish people with just that taunt combo. They need to stand there and let him hit them over and over and over and over. It is soul destroying to have to play that way.
edit: soul-destroying = Having to play a no guaranteed or upfront dmg auto attack tank when you preferred to play a tank assassin. To have to play an auto attack melee champion when you prefer to play a caster combo champ. For your champ to be changed to significantly such that he isn't the same, except only in that he has a built in teleport the only real unchanged ability.
additional commentary: you are suggesting that new is better, he isn't so much that he is better or worse. It is like saying any champion is better or worse than some other like olaf vs darius. He isn't same champion. They are different. What you want to do, how you are wanting to play, depends on whether he is better for you than the other. He is so dissimilar that they are not comparable against each other like you might traditionally have done when discussing a minor buff/nerf. Just sucks to have to leave a champion and go pick up another just so you can continue to play a style that you used the old version of a champion to play. That is a major downside of the concept of rekitting. rekitting is going to murder old mains of many champions and likely already has on many champions. so long ap yi, so long ap shen (this is me but minus the ap scaling, minus the ap items just utilizing base dmgs off of the caster combos. never got around to doing ap shen but was wanting to at some point guess waited too long :P), so long ap poppy, ect. Many people get left behind unfortunately when this happens. :P Oh well. Need to just go do Riven top or Leona Top or Diana Top or Akali Tank Top, or Rammus Top or something else that would probably be more fun for me.
When I started playing shen it was tp shen, it was safe lane farm shen, it was ult to save someone.
Later it became, always ignite shen, always constant trade in lane shen, if can get him low use combo with flash extention to assassinate combo with ignite; it was ult to kill the guy always kill the guy or 2 guys who is trying to kill the guy im saving. Saving him just collateral benefit. It is no longer as fun to go back to farm the lane play with tp and just save someone. That is like devolving.
WalkingInACircle2 votesShen is fine, you shouldn't be expecting to win your lane with him.
Requiemsfire2 votesCurrent iteration of Shen is both a peeler and initiator, he provides a lot to his team through map presence, hard CC, and his W is actually really powerful utility that basically guarantees shen will win any head on trade with a champion that relies on their basic attacks to deal damage. When it comes late game it makes champions like 
(insert all ADCs) useless for a whole 1.75 seconds which is a long time in team fights.
SaltyKracka1 votesHis passive is ridiculously strong.
EstebanElGuapo1 votesI was old shen main, you won't get any arguments from me there. I've seen people do wonderful things with the new shen, but I cannot use him the ways i had, or preferred to. I will post one of the more entertaining short montage links i've seen of new shen since its rare that anything new shen can make me excited to watch him. he is not exciting at all for me to play or watch even in a game where I was as successful late game as anyone could hope i cursed all damn game. :P to myself and in chat. (Such as, if i was old shen he'd be dead, if i was old shen i'd not died there, if i was old shen that guy would have died. etc. :). ) My laning phase is my issue with him, there isn't one for me. I huddled under turret and hoped not to die. every time i've tried him out my laning phase has been reduced to that. Its a matter of learning his new laning. which means practice makes perfect but it isn't my style anymore. the new laning phase of his is outside my comfort. :)
Here is the montage i found though that was fun to watch. (not me, just my example that others seem to have been able to play him in exciting ways, so there is hope for those of us who have not)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKm0SX_bvSo
for self promotional purposes his my decent late game with my crap early game of the only few games i've bothered to play with him :P I still not fond of him though I had decent game. ignore the long dance with the minibaron i was testing his %dmg vs neutrals and turns out not gonna happen. You can see why I hate laning. I do not do auto attack champs, kind of why I don't like new shen laning. I'm not use to playing auto attack. Old shen wasn't a big auto attacker but even with him i could weave in autos without feeling like a stupid newb. I'll put my favorite old shen game in here too for comparison though im cherry picking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJCZipJw-ao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYN7oAeaCUE P.S. I think its pure coincidence that both games have a super fed enemy zed, but perhaps it is shen v zed lore and not coincidence after all hmmmm. :)
BlueBilberry1 votesIt's not a fluke that Shen highlights don't seem to appear too often in the recent esports footage.
Raja Chachki1 votesHe's not necessarily weak, he just does NO damage. His power is put into the utility of his ult. I think a small buff to his Q so that he could actually trade would be nice...
EstebanElGuapo1 votesI believe they recently nerfed that and put in the board commentary on the patch discussion that they did it cause they wanted to cut into his ability to push lane and farm with his q. They said don't want him to be able to easily be able to push the lane out before using ult. That he would have to buy his waveclear. That the ult is so game changing that they don't want him to be good at both lane pushing without purchasing his farming ability and ulting away as well.
edit: guess it wasn't recent says patch chat 6.17 with playtest team though its talking bout new shen and new shen didn't come out till 6.2, so its likely pbe references and the commentary makes coments bout the new kit so seems its refering to the new shen balance and kit in pbe at the time. but here is one of the comments, there are many on what they think of shen and what they want to touch or not touch in his kit for balance. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/FTNhAQKr-patch-chat-with-the-playtest-team-617-the-pre-worlds-patch
There may be some more commentary in later patch chats. I dunno at the moment it takes too long to dig.
The reason it is worth mentioning is if they feel that this is unbuffable then and a point they need to keep weak, and a key point to potentially nerf if needed in the future in order to keep his ult power at bay; I just can't see them ever coming around much on changing their mind on that. But I haven't been keeping up with the patches since my hd crashed a bit ago and dunno what they changed with him in the past few months.
Because we're targeting his weakness, not nerfing his strengths. When we start nerfing champions strengths they begin to homogenize as they lose their strategic identities. If we nerfed Shen's ult, players wouldn't pick Shen for the global pressure he brings - they'd just pick him if his ball of stats was greater than someone else's.
Now this of course ends up with the question of how do you nerf something who's niche is so powerful in competitive and leads to hitting his weaknesses. By nerfing his Q and in essence damaging his waveclear, there's now a tradeoff for having such a powerful global ultimate. You are no longer capable of splitpushing like a monster while simultaneously providing the best global pressure in the game.
...
Well for one it has hurt his waveclear based on the playtests we've run. I didn't think it was going to make much of a difference, but I definitely felt the weaker waveclear. In addition, in competitive play he's not buying most of the other things beyond Sunfire until much later in the game. Part of the goal for these changes is to force more of his itemization purchases towards waveclear.
But it is possible we do need to focus more of the bonus damage to minions, although that likely disproportionately effects low elo than high elo (who are generally much better at cs'ing)
EstebanElGuapo1 votesWas thinking last night if they split dmg to minions stats off from dmg to champion stats they could tweak one up while leave the other the same or tweaking it down. I noticed they currently have it:
1.) does % dmg to champs and minions/neutrals 2.) does bonus flat dmg amount to mininions/neutrals
perhaps they could: 1.) does X% dmg to champs 2.) does Y% dmg to minions/neutrals does bonus flat dmg amount as well.
That way they could tune the %dmg for X up to see how it affects dueling while leaving Y alone or tuning it down further. Might be an idea.
Thund3r Ang3l1 votesHis kit now is way worse than it was before, he gets bullied by ranged all day. His w is FUCKING GARBAGE. 1.75? thats what MAYBE an auto or 2? what the fuck is that shit. thats garbo. His ult and taunt are what make him so unique and i guess "strong" but his q and w are just too weak. In order for my q to work i have to use it where im positioned, Im not a peeler im a initiator.
Yes, He is weak and for a good reason... You aint supposed to win your lane by yourself. Your role as shen is to make your team snowball with your global utility. Then splitpush.
BlueBilberry1 votesOne of the most common mistakes I have seen in the lower ELO games is to try and play Shen like you do the other toplaners. This is a mistake. You have to understand the champion. He can lane - but the designers have pushed him even more than before into a TANK role. The goal atm with Shen is to get out of the lane (level 6+) with few deaths and a tremendous ability to contribute to teamfights.
Krazioz1 votesWeak?YOu didn't see me with Shen then.Carried and won lane against level 6 riven
And A Real Hiero1 votesNice necro.
BoookyTheGOD1 votesmy only issue is his Q is AP, i feel it should be AP/AD, building titanic hydra which is health based dmg, while tank items only provide armor+health, there isnt any hybrid items so you can get health+Def+AP, maybe health+def+someAD, but the move isnt AD so you can't even have shen do much, kite lane to win, but he can be buff by this 1 thing, the change from AP to AP/AD and that'll allow his Q to do a bit more dmg instead of going AP then his E wont get any benefit from it cause his E is AD. RIOT PLS FIX!