This balance issue is pushing me away from league.

Keyoshi·Feb 16, 2015·213 votes·10,888 views

Tired of riot acknowledging the fact that certain champions are stronger than they should be with nothing being done about it. It's making me not want to play this game anymore.

205 Comments

KaisadiIIaFeb 16, 201563 votes

RIOT balance is something like this:

X champion is causing problems. What do we do?
Is he capable of LC$BIGPLAY$?

A) Yes: Then don't dare to touch this (well, you can take away his ability to put shield on wards, but nothing more.) B) Nope: game health no counterplay... let's take the nerf hammer.

KeyoshiFeb 16, 201517 votes

I just hate watching players who aren't as skilled as other people get rewarded for such little risk. It's sad.

The LexerFeb 16, 201517 votes

C) better nerf irelia

Neo CyrusFeb 16, 201553 votes

Better nerf ~~Irelia~~ Sona. Fixed that for you.

Lean into itFeb 16, 201530 votes

{quoted}

RIOT balance is something like this:

X champion is causing problems. What do we do?

Is he capable of LC$BIGPLAY$?

A) Yes: Then don't dare to touch this (well, you can take away his ability to put shield on wards, but nothing more.) B) Nope: game health no counterplay... let's take the nerf hammer.

nidalee is A skarner is B BibleThump never forget the lobster

Only Play DariusFeb 16, 201512 votes

Skarner item 3070

Learn 2 SwimFeb 16, 201544 votes

"its really hard to balance 100+ champions"

Riot: so lets release a new champion that replaces 20% of the roster!

Im getting the same feeling too. This is the worst the game has been for me and I have thought of installing DOTA2 a couple times now. Riot doesn't even have a meta they are enforcing anymore. They are just gutting champs that make them no money and buffing a select few old ones that sell a lot of skins.

pckprFeb 16, 20154 votes

I agree about the roster and how broken it is at the moment, but try to put in perspective how difficult it is to please 27 million+ people.

Also, I wouldn't suggest DOTA 2 as an alternative, only because of Valve's tendencies to make P2W games.

MeowMixWarriorFeb 16, 201530 votes

{quoted} Also, I wouldn't suggest DOTA 2 as an alternative, only because of Valve's tendencies to make P2W games.

DOTA 2 P2W.

P2W

Dota 2

Excuse me good sir? Have you actually looked at Dota 2?

RaptameiFeb 16, 20155 votes

{quoted}

P2W Dota 2

Excuse me good sir? Have you actually looked at Dota 2?

Year Beast event enabled players to buy points to buff their monster with real money. Pay to win.

OnegarionFeb 16, 20158 votes

if its just and event tho the game as a whole isn't P2W just that event time.

RaptameiFeb 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

if its just and event tho the game as a whole isn't P2W just that event time.

A game can't be "partially" pay to win. It either is or isn't. Valve has demonstrated that they want to add pay to win to Dota. They will find a way.

OnegarionFeb 16, 20154 votes

actually it can have moments where it is and isn't. MOST of Dota is not like that event at all. So clearly its not P2W. I know nothing about the event itself, but if you can actually boost your stats for limited time frame AND ITS IN A GAME MODE THAT MATTERS LIKE RANKED then for that moment it is. The way games works can change drastically. It woulnd't be hard to change league into a Team deathmatch style game instead making buying high damage champs a P2W-esque mechanic.

manbearswineFeb 16, 20158 votes

{quoted}

making buying high damage champs a P2W-esque mechanic.

Or they could release new op champions for a high ip price encouraging people to spend rp on them.

googlemasterFeb 16, 20153 votes

good luck with that. their servers have turned to shit and they are having a pay 2 win event right now

ARCDASHFeb 16, 20155 votes

Instead of having a P2W all the time, I'd prefer having P2W restricted to weird gamemodes.

KeyoshiFeb 16, 20154 votes

Just these last 2 seasons have been really bad. In season 3 i felt like everything was more balanced. It was still touchy feely but it wasn't to the point to where i didn't want to play league anymore. This season is just so stale. A lot more stale than it's ever been. I agree with you 100%. They just want to make money.

CaptnJakSparrowFeb 16, 20156 votes

Season 3 was pretty cancer, honestly. Season 2 was the best imho.

OyddAWqJ5rFeb 17, 20153 votes

I liked alot of things about Season 3. But yeah, Season 2 is by far the best so far. Season 4 was boring and unbalanced as hell (poke to win, stalling out games etc.). But now Season 5 is making Season 4 look good.

VahlenFeb 16, 201533 votes

This season is still boring as fuck to watch...........anytime you see an off-meta pick (i.e. Froggens Anivia) the team gets absolutely smashed with mobility.

mvargusFeb 16, 201522 votes

Just this season? I tried watching one game and gave up. The stupid levels of mobility make it nearly impossible to see the plays as more than a bunch of characters dashing into a mosh pit and blowing each other up. It's hard for me to comprehend how anyone gets excited about that kind of fight.

And the announcing isn't announcing. I called them "Shoutcasters" rather than announcers, because all they do is scream things like "Pentakill!"

Hate to tell riot, but outside the demographic of people who play LoL already, I don't think their current product will prove to be all that exciting. It's better than watching the Magic the Gathering national finals (which did get onto ESPN 2 years ago), but sad to say I think Texas Holdem Poker will do better with your average TV viewer. It's easier to understand than the wild LCSBigplays that appear to be what Riot drives for.

lojicianFeb 16, 201510 votes

To be fair sometimes certain casters like kobe do say something insightful and interesting. But yeah there's a lot of "OH MY GOD did you see that kalista outplay?!! It was an outplay because it involved a lot of dashing!!!!!"

LwntFeb 16, 201515 votes

To tell you the truth I actually agree with you. I notice that I stop watching LCS I think its because I find it boring now. Its always the same champion that are being played. There needs to be diverse but that impossible because their always going to be champions that are stronger than others.

mvargusFeb 16, 20154 votes

It's not about stronger in the LCS. Its about consistent and not easily counterpicked. The professionals keep their jobs by winning, which means that a risky pick could cost them their jobs. Therefore they need to go with champs that fit into just about any team composition. And when you have to be able to play almost entirely by instinct since you won't have time to think, you have to have a champ where you've played/practiced them for hundreds and even thousands of hours.

So most pros really have a champ pool of maybe 5 champs they are willing/able to play in a game unless the team plans ahead for some kind of unusual comp. And those 5 have to be generalists for the most part.

Therefore we get the Lee Sin/Jarvin IV/Vi jungle because all 3 are generalist junglers with a lot of utility. Are there other junglers who could work. Certainly, but they might not fit the comp should the team need to change tactics in the middle of a match, so, the pros go with the same champs.

Of course, the best solution would be to make it so there are no generalists, but that would anger the pros who need those champions. They don't want to find their team saying "I'm sorry, but we aren't renewing your contract." and to make sure that happens they need to win. That requires having the generalist champs available to give them the best chance to win.

Tapu FiniFeb 16, 20158 votes

Needing to think about your picks and bans and actually having a diverse and flexible champion pool should be how you make it to pro status, and if you can't keep up, you shouldn't be there. No champion should fit into almost every mold with strong results and little penalty, that's where this whole issue stems from.

Adjusting and adapting is so much more fun to watch than Lee sin, Jarvan, and Vi, 24/7.

KeyoshiFeb 16, 20157 votes

Could you imagine how much better this game would be with more bans? or with a better balance system? We'd probably see more diversity or maybe not who knows. Pro's need to have a bigger champion pool, not stick with the same champions and face role it. I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm just saying as a pro I expect more from them.

CaptnJakSparrowFeb 16, 20156 votes

Thaaat's pretty much why I don't watch the LCS all too much. You see the same 15 champs in every game. Usually it's also an adc + support vs solo champ. Mid chills. Jungler may or may not run around with a support helping the jungler kill stuff. Bum rush 4v1 the solo laner. Mid still sitting there, they may or may not Q eachother once or twice. 10 minutes in? dragon fight. rinse repeat for the next 10 or 15 minutes. Whichever top laner got dunked hardest proceeds to feed repeatedly. Jungler walks around confused. Adc gets caught out, mid blows stuff. Run. Lose.

Some where in all of this, there's a black man yelling while shooting pistols, a HEKOO!!! And a Kallista dancing around.

100 BossFeb 17, 20154 votes

This is so accurate that it's funny

KalarepaFeb 16, 20154 votes

I used to watch all LoL tournaments. Now I watch only CLG and Elements games, because I like those teams. It's pointless to watch the other ones with the same champions in every game.

Riot can keep wondering, why LCS is losing viewers or make their balance team actually work.

DracosKasuFeb 16, 20157 votes

Also if you look more closer you will see that riot change patch per patch all point and click ability to skillshot to make sure that mobility remain suprem

Urdnot EntarFeb 16, 201520 votes

Riot's bugs, bad matchmaking, bizarre balance decisions, horrible ranking system, trollish forum moderation, failure to communicate and ignoring what the community actively wants are pushing me away from League...

KeevalroyFeb 16, 201514 votes

Tired of riot acknowledging the fact that certain champions are stronger than they should be with nothing being done about it.

MarhsallLee67Feb 16, 201513 votes

I've been feeling the same way recently. It seems like unless you're playing the champions that rito continues to coddle, your chances of winning games, or even having fun while playing, decrease dramatically.

I just want to play the champions that I like. I want to pick champions like Skarner and Shyvana and feel like I have a good chance of carrying on my own even if the rest of my team doesn't do so hot. I don't want to be forced to play Lee Sin or Zed or Kalista or whatever if I want to win my games, but the more I play, the more it feels like that's what I'll end up having to do if things keep going the way they're going.

pckprFeb 16, 201512 votes

I see where you're coming from, But you have to realize how difficult it is to completely balance a game with 100+ characters.

KeyoshiFeb 16, 20158 votes

So instead of nerfing everyone like they do, why not buff everyone else? just a thought. If everyone was op then nobody is op.

RaptameiFeb 16, 20159 votes

{quoted}

So instead of nerfing everyone like they do, why not buff everyone else? just a thought. If everyone was op then nobody is op.

That works in Dota because heroes have weaknesses and counterplay. In League only the bad champions do.

OnegarionFeb 16, 20153 votes

Here is exactly why Riot doesn't buff everyone else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai6oMY4U0Yw

Its a great explanation that doesn't even scratch the surface. Its the general idea as to how it works and why it is this way.

VelasanFeb 16, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Here is exactly why Riot doesn't buff everyone else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai6oMY4U0Yw

Its a great explanation that doesn't even scratch the surface. Its the general idea as to how it works and why it is this way.

In game numbers are entirely arbitrary as are the words buff and nerf. In reality there is a baseline around stats and durations. For example, 500 ap or ad is about normal near end game, move speeds are all similar ranges etc. Stuns rarely last more than a couple seconds and so on.

Champions are all balanced relative to eachother. In this sense the problem is they dunk certain champions into the nerfbasket, but others remain at or above the baseline creating wildly large gaps in their consistency. Champs that have lots of consistency consequently have the most of what everyone complains about... that is having very little counterplay.

deadlychuckFeb 16, 201512 votes

For example, 500 ap or ad is about normal near end game, move speeds are all similar ranges etc.

I just want to point out that it use to be that AP always reached the end game with higher AP than AD champions had AD. More and more AD scaling skills have been getting added to the game over the past few years, Riven Zed Talon , and for some reason AD has been reaching the same numbers as AP. Yet AP still doesn't scale their basic attacks directly with their AP or have a stat like crit, capped CDR at 40% compared to 2.5sec atk speed (which also scales naturally), and spell vamp was gutted years ago compared to lifesteal which with a item 3074 or item 3072 a champion can heal to almost full in a single minion wave.

j jFeb 16, 201512 votes

I think everybody is tired of all the mobility added to league leaving the rest of the older champions feeling outdated or not compensated enough for being immobile. The mobile champions today excel at everything. Bursting, Laning, Sustaining, roaming, zoning, harassing, trading, and the jukes. Much wow, SUch impress!

junglerboy16Feb 16, 20159 votes

Please, don't even say compensated, Riot apparently has no idea what that word means.

j jFeb 16, 20158 votes

You're right when I look up riots definition it's the synonym for gutted, deleted, removed LOL.

DracosKasuFeb 16, 201511 votes

We all know that we cannot balance champ all equal but the problem come right now from all similar thing MOBILITY. Mobility offer to much right now, it protect you from skillshot, it give you an advantage in engage and can also save you from all mistake you make aka LeeSin Nidalee Zed by example.

When it come to balance you need to take care of those factor and riot right now seem to don't give a shit about it and this is why we see many complaint about it.

Veigar for example get is Q into a skillshot, yup we know that now if you are good to CS you can get 2 creep buff by one ability and we should balance around it but it is why it is now a skillshot, but nerfing is wall isn,t the answer when you can see those mobility creep ran away from it without problem because you can't longer instant stun them.

If you don't agree about mobility became too much just look 4.2 patch Ahri get more mobility and became too much strong and still when people complaint about how mobile LeeSin and Zed are riot don't seem to give a shit.

JESUSSAYSNOFeb 16, 20158 votes

I agree, and I've hopped back over to DOTA, and have found I am liking it a hell of a lot more than I do league. Then again, I play Midas Doom and afk farm in the jungle for 30 minutes and come out 6 slotted and ready to stomp shit with 4.5k health and more damage than most right click carries dream about, of course I'm enjoying myself.

But I think the 'lc$bigplays' thing is total bullshit. Oriana saw huge play, and made huge plays. She got gutted. Hardly playable due to the mana regen nerfs forcing assassins into the front of the meta again. I would say that League is shifting away from being a strategy game, focusing more into an action game. The meta shifts reflect it. The only viable champion right now still based in a strategy design, is Nasus, who's focus is completely on scaling into the lategame and stomping. He is not skill based, he's planning and execution based.

Sky ShadowFeb 16, 20158 votes

I can agree with this. The balance of this game is nonexistent.

I'm really tired of seeing the same champions being selected in Ranked because they are clearly stronger stat-wise and kit-wise.

Nobody picks anything else because they aren't as strong and/or counter who the enemy team has selected. People also don't play who they find fun because of non-viability and instead play what can take X champ on the enemy team down the quickest possible.

For example, you never see the enemy team select Thresh as support and your support say "Wow, they just picked Thresh... Now who should I pick... Hmm... Taric!". Nobody plays the old and dusty champs because they stand no chance and/or have very little to offer.

If all champs or the majority were balanced, it wouldn't matter as much that "X champ counters X champ" and would be more based on skill. I don't feel anymore like I'm playing "League of Legends" and feel more like I'm now playing "League of Counters".

RainbowgasmFeb 16, 20158 votes

my favorite champions are getting weaker and weaker, and the champions that piss me off the most are getting stronger and stronger in comparison. I thought I was gonna stay around to try and earn my plat V but the higher I climb, the more I have to face the OP champs. I should quit while I have my sanity.

OxBakerFeb 16, 20156 votes

Yeah, unless something fairly substantial changes in RIOT's approach to balance, I'm pretty sure I'll be off to HotS when it comes out. I think at this point I'd rather take a more casual MOBA than one that's so imbalanced.

SEKAIFeb 17, 20154 votes

Versatility **SHOULD NOT **have more power.
Versatility **SHOULD **have a limit.
There SHOULD NOT be a lot of versatile champs in the roster.
There SHOULD NOT be a more than just a very small group of champs with low cd and no resource.
Kit size **SHOULD **be regulated, having kits that are twice as big as others is just disgusting.
There **SHOULD **be more identity to champs' spells, rather than just more damage, better cc etc.
There **SHOULD **be some proper balance between ranged and melee by now, ranged **SHOULD **die when approached by melee and melee **SHOULD **die if they don't make ways around to reach ranged.
There SHOULD NOT be any more knee jerk nerfs and buffs.
Games **SHOULD **start in champion selection it's just not the end of it. We still need counterpicking, counterbuilding and counterplaying, properly outlined *strengths *and *weaknesses *like you know, most of the old champs?

Last but not least, Riot **SHOULD **stick with their design and balancing philosophy, instead of making exceptions everywhere. BE CONSISTENT.

Oh before I forget, Riot **SHOULD ** teach CertainlyT what it means to design a team game champion, he lives in the wrong genre.

Shadow GilgameshFeb 17, 20152 votes

This is why I wish Nemesis mode was permanent. This week I got to do stuff I haven't in years. I've played as Taric, Zac, Urgot, Nunu in lane, and I got to have FUN while doing it. If I tried that shit in draft, blind, or teambuilder I'd just get facerolled on by zeds and rivens and have Lee Sins throwing out more Qs than a carny throws knifes, even if I did GOOD it wouldn't be fuckin FUN

ProfirixFeb 17, 20157 votes

It says volumes when you get stuck with "shitty" champions only to realize that when you can't pick any of the top tier champions that they are actually not that bad. I couldn't decide which champions to ban and give the enemy in Nemesis because when all champions are "bottom tier" they are actually on a level playing field.

It just goes to show you how far ahead the LCS picks are from the rest of the champion pool.