I decided to take Sej into the jungle the other day (jungle xp wtf)

MrSc0tty·Jan 13, 2015·34 votes·3,108 views

Loving the new changes, loving the now existent damage and the ability to chase people down with my flail and watch their hp melt, and the fact that I can clear the jungle a bit easier now.

Now, this game I got lucky. Really lucky. Three times I wandered into bushes with half hp or below recalling enemies and got to rock their socks, and every gank went off perfectly. I was 1/0/6 by the end of the lane phase and we had a fed as hell top and mid, and I was out farming the enemy jungle on top of that.

So Riot care to tell me WHY WAS I A LEVEL BEHIND THE SUPPORT? Why do my camps now give me no xp? And why has this gone on a full patch, you'd think this would be like...bug fix material here. C'mon guys.

23 Comments

Cenobite AzazielJan 13, 201510 votes

Not only the exp is horrible, the gold income if you don't b after two camps for upgraded item is awful.

Failed a gank? Now you are 2 lvls behind top and mid. The enemy team has to be really dumb to push like crazy and don't ward so you get a nice gank! Used your smite to gank? Though luck, have fun being butt raped by the raptors. Woah, you are power farming? Doesn't matter, your gold income will never be better than any solo laner aaaaaaand you will have to eat up some pots so you can gank =]. Ok, now you can clear camps and play. Welcome to the game lvl 6 where laners can clear the jungle better with you and your whole team will start poaching your camps, EVEN if you say to them you get +20 gold per camp... because you know, why invest even more gold into someone of your team that is crippled?

But of course, you can get some good ganks and snow ball a lane and, still, will be the second gold income of the match.

Or you just can play a solo lane and snow ball the game alone and push to finish the game early, insted of making it a 30min + game.

It is funny that if a lane gets ONE KILL, it becomes way harder for you to gank. Since you are already behind and the laners are too now behind ( a kill and a wave), going there is kind of a suicide. You're not the upperhand anymore.

You can still play a farm jungler and see the game develop 4x5 and you team has way more chances to win if they are good laners. I won lots of games like that.

MrSc0ttyJan 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cenobite Azaziel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j8K5d1Zh,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-01-13T16:52:19.939+0000)

Not only the exp is horrible, the gold income if you don't b after two camps for upgraded item is awful.

Failed a gank? Now you are 2 lvls behind top and mid. The enemy team has to be really dumb to push like crazy and don't ward so you get a nice gank! Used your smite to gank? Though luck, have fun being butt raped by the raptors. Woah, you are power farming? Doesn't matter, your gold income will never be better than any solo laner aaaaaaand you will have to eat up some pots so you can gank =]. Ok, now you can clear camps and play. Welcome to the game lvl 6 where laners can clear the jungle better with you and your whole team will start poaching your camps, EVEN if you say to them you get +20 gold per camp... because you know, why invest even more gold into someone of your team that is crippled?

But of course, you can get some good ganks and snow ball a lane and, still, will be the second gold income of the match.

Or you just can play a solo lane and snow ball the game alone and push to finish the game early, insted of making it a 30min + game.

It is funny that if a lane gets ONE KILL, it becomes way harder for you to gank. Since you are already behind and the laners are too now behind ( a kill and a wave), going there is kind of a suicide. You're not the upperhand anymore.

You can still play a farm jungler and see the game develop 4x5 and you team has way more chances to win if they are good laners. I won lots of games like that.

Wait, why are you running stalkers blade if you want to get your gold and EXP from farming shit? I get stalkers/skirmishers if I know I can just farm enemy champs and I say fuck the jungle creeps, that's like my "oh hey I got a stupid easy double at level 3 as Khazix and i know the enemy bot is retarded" item.

For everything else, there's Trailblazer. Ability to safely clear and Instafarm camps for the rest of the game>a one minute CD slow when 95% of champs are gonna just have another slow.

Cenobite AzazielJan 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wait, why are you running stalkers blade if you want to get your gold and EXP from farming shit? I get stalkers/skirmishers if I know I can just farm enemy champs and I say fuck the jungle creeps, that's like my "oh hey I got a stupid easy double at level 3 as Khazix and i know the enemy bot is retarded" item.

For everything else, there's Trailblazer. Ability to safely clear and Instafarm camps for the rest of the game>a one minute CD slow when 95% of champs are gonna just have another slow.

Try a quick farmer like Yi. You don't need trailblazer to insta farm, still, the gold and you get doing a 8 cycle so your creeps are up aren't the same as the bot lane sup.

ChessburgerJan 13, 20151 votes

You have the ability to force a flash 90% of the time on a 60 second CD and the 50% slow also removes any skill required to land your skill shot gap closer. and you can still situationally use it to obtain small camp buffs. Now if trailblazer was reverted back to 45s CD I'd consider it on some junglers. As of now stalker's is just way too strong of a tool and I buy it even on champs like Amumu. And on those that I just can't afford to buy it like nautilius: I just hold off the full jungle item upgrade 'till midgame where I sell the ranger's trailblazer and buy Stalker's at a (IIRC) 180-200g deficit.

N3mO06Jan 13, 20156 votes

Is exactly my same question. I was rengar jungler, 2-1-6 and I had a lv behind the enamy jayce 0-4-2. this isn't normal. A jungler should have the same exp of a solo laner otherwise every time that a jungler try to gank a enamy line, which is winning, standing behind 1-2-3 lv, it's always a double kill. In fact now it's very hard to gank a lane which is losing and so jungler can't dab the enamy's snowballing. Let me use an example: enamy Riven is winning so he has 1,2 lv over your top laner. You problably have 2, 3 lv behind her. Ok, now try to gank top. It's literally a suicide

GorszJan 13, 20153 votes

I have not noticed junglers falling behind in xp in my games.

I have yet to see junglers fall below the support in levels unless they had a really terrible game, so perhaps you werent playing it right. Sounds like you have not learned yet to develop an efficient route because you're just now noticing about jungle changes.

Bears Dont CareJan 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I have not noticed junglers falling behind in xp in my games.

I have yet to see junglers fall below the support in levels unless they had a really terrible game, so perhaps you werent playing it right. Sounds like you have not learned yet to develop an efficient route because you're just now noticing about jungle changes.

It depends on what happens in bottom lane. A jungler can very well end up a level lower than the support if bot lane feeds. There really is no way to catch up to laners in terms of exp no matter how well you gank.

Duke AnaxJan 13, 20151 votes

It's not about routes. Those junglers that manage to keep up don't do so because they farm more efficiently, it's because they leech xp from lanes during or after ganks.

MrSc0ttyJan 13, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I have not noticed junglers falling behind in xp in my games.

I have yet to see junglers fall below the support in levels unless they had a really terrible game, so perhaps you werent playing it right. Sounds like you have not learned yet to develop an efficient route because you're just now noticing about jungle changes.

Dude I know the jungle changes, I was just trying the Sej buffs for the first time.

WutsKrakenJan 13, 20153 votes

Even fast junglers have trouble getting xp unless they tax hard and/or splitpush

Long Dong WukongJan 13, 20152 votes

Jungle XP is trash, yes.

SmokingPuffinJan 13, 20152 votes

With the nerfed jungle xp, you have to be quite fast at clearing to keep pace with the laners.

New Sejuani is quite good. She is not, however, any good at farming the jungle. I don't know about being behind the support, that's not my usual experience on her, but there's no question you're weaker than the laners unless you take all the kills.

The new jungle xp rate is a thorny problem for Riot. They're trying to make it so that junglers have less early game impact, because season 4 junglers were the most impactful players on the team by miles, but they're running into bad feels for jungler players. It's similar to how junglers were pretty unhappy in season 2 -- they were still having a high impact on the game, but their relatively low personal power level (aka "tanky support jungler") was a big impetus for jungle change in season 3.

I suspect we'll be doing the same sort of thing for season 6.

DiljicJan 13, 20152 votes

The part that really hurts is how badly getting behind snowballs the level disadvantage against you. The second your team starts to get behind your laners will think they can catch up by coming and taking a few jungle camps. At this point they are probably still behind their lane opponents and you are now super behind as your already low jungle XP is being taken by your own team.

I've noticed more this pre-season that team level differences seems to be much higher than before.

CreationFlawJan 13, 20151 votes

It's kind of the point now, it sucks, but you're kind of forced to mash into lanes, and then tax some XP from their creeps to stay with them.

ZirzonJan 13, 20151 votes

If I am a jungler with slow early clear, leveling can be pretty harsh. Often it seems that I end up a couple levels behind the solo laners (around level 4/5/6 vs 6/7/8), unless I'm a high clear/high sustain champ. This makes me want to strongly avoid ganking at that point in the game, even if a lane desperately needs it, because I would just be an easy kill. And if anything at all goes wrong (such as a Lee Sin invade), good luck catching up any time soon.

Firefox509Jan 13, 20151 votes

I agree the jungle exp sucks, especially when the junglers like WW or fiddle need to reach 6 to get their full gank potential, then about the time they finally get there, the top/mid laners are about 3 levels above them, and they go try to gank a lane where your ally is near death / dying to their laner and the jungler is even a little bit too late to get there you're now fighting someone alone who has 3 levels (and more gold more than likely) on you and you just end up feeding them. Happens so much it irritates me how bad it is for junglers now. About half of the games I do have a WW jungler he wants to 1v1 mid or top lane which has usually 2+ levels on him, usually 3.

aaronconlinJan 13, 20151 votes

I didn't really notice it when I jungled, but the past few games our jungler and the enemy jungler were both pretty far behind

RogueWillJan 13, 20151 votes

You have to tax lanes, as bad as it sounds its true. After ganking unless you get the kill you take 4-5 creeps so you don't fall behind for the time you spend ganking. The only way to keep up with your xp and gold is take a pouch and farm all your enemy jungle as well but that is nearly impossibe as well as really risky. Just take some farm everytime you go to a lane until riot finds a way to fix the jungle.

Tentacle LoveJan 13, 20151 votes

And it's even worse if the bot lane poaches a camp to get a level ahead before they start laning.

Worse because it's a smarter investment for the team, not because it's particularly malevolent of them.

AlëkJan 14, 20151 votes

I've noticed that cs for the jungler has dropped WAAAAAY low. I generally used to get around 200-250 cs per game no matter what jungle I play. Now its down to 100-150 unless the game goes 30min+ Obviously the respawn timers being lengthened is a big reason but I feel that junglers need more reward. Not only do you get decreased XP you get decreased gold as well. It's really a pain in the ass. I played Sej my last game and did really well, as in I carried all early through mid before our ADC started making a real comeback and we got ahead. Even so late game I had 3rd highest gold and I was pretty much always a level behind everyone except the support. Depending on whether I died or not sometimes the support would go ahead a level. This is while I was FED. something is wrong with that.

DarkenedSoul420Jan 14, 20151 votes

Yeah even pros are buying sightstone alot more in the jungle now, ya know since theyre now glorified supports. This also gives lee sin an extra edge since sightstone is even more useful for him than any other junglers

ARAM SUXJan 14, 20151 votes

I think it is currently like this because Riot doesn't just want braindead junglers with crazy clear speeds to just stay in the jungle all day have 0 impact on laning phase and still be on par with everyone else in the game. You have to evaluate each lane and decide which ones are best for ganking and actually have an impact in the game and try and snowball your lanes rather than just stay in the jungle and do nothing for your lanes. You want to stay in jungle and farm all day and still be massive? Okay, the enemy jungler ganked every other lane and all your teammates are behind and losing. You being super farmed in jungle doesn't really mean much. At least that is my perspective. All that being said, I still feel like the xp is a bit low. Sometimes you just can't gank lanes or it is too risky to counter jungle and you are stuck at that point where you just have to farm the jungle and the payoff just isn't worth it. I feel like it will be buffed by the time s5 rolls out

worldwar1 gunnerJan 14, 20151 votes

I never see this when I jungle. It is harder to jungle now and Im not saying its not a thing to be under leveled, but I play Nunu jungle main and have never had any jungle problems. I also play a few other jungles such as amumu, jarvan, leona, and akali. even with leona I am always up to par on level and gold. I see the gold and xp as a skill on the play rather then the game.