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Am I the only one that's never felt like Kindred is 2 separate beings?

HongChongDong··77 votes·3,005 views

I've seen her played countless times and played her myself on occasion and she's just never felt or looked like 2 characters. it's always just seemed like 1 champion with animations and a single ability that's been glorified as "2 champions". A good character non the less, both thematic wise and lore wise. But I just can't seem to see her as more than 1 champion.

EDIT- Since the initial post seems to be misunderstood.

I'm not referring to the thematics of the champion when I say "Doesn't seem like 2 characters". I'm talking about the actual feel of the gameplay. In my opinion, you can change all of lambs animations to completely delete "Wolf" from her theme and she wouldn't be even the slightest bit different in the way she feels to play.

Someone noted that her W and E are "Wolf", but that's still just an animation and doesn't actually add an extra feeling to the gameplay.

62 Comments

DrCyanide26 votes

I know it's not completely the same, but I almost feel like Ivern and Daisy are a better dual-champion than Kindred.

Neither Ivern on his own nor Daisy on her own are particularly threatening, but when they're together they feel so... united? Together? More so than anyone else I've played with in game that has a similar ability.

RogueWill9 votes

Annie and tibbers are both threatening. That is why you run from the bear.

gileskd4 votes

Nevar! we shall stay and fight Eat it! Nunu Nunu Nunu Nunu Nunu Nunu Nunu Nunu Nunu

Reaper Soraka5 votes

The bear runs from no one. You're running from the bear. Annie is running from you.

Across the river and through the woods to grandma's nexus we go.

noxus is op1 votes

Shia lebough!!!

Glory ln Death1 votes

Sion Why run from the bear when you could just use it to kill Annie?

BlackHairedGirl1 votes

Syndra

Glory ln Death1 votes

Quinn

Pacattack251 votes

{quoted}

I know it's not completely the same, but I almost feel like Ivern and Daisy are a better dual-champion than Kindred.

Neither Ivern on his own nor Daisy on her own are particularly threatening, but when they're together they feel so... united? Together? More so than anyone else I've played with in game that has a similar ability.

Annie Have you seen my bear tibbers?

DrCyanide1 votes

Annie is fierce on her own though. Tibbers is nice, but she doesn't feel like she's missing anything without Tibbers. Ivern feels like he's waiting for his better half to show up when Daisy isn't there. The same can't be said for Annie without Tibbers. After all, his biggest job is just showing up and AoE stunning people.

OurLestrade17 votes

Yep. Wolf's just a tool, like the Quinn-Valor thing. If I remember correctly Quinn was called Quinn & Valor originally on the champion listing on the PBE to try and cement the whole WE'RE TOGETHER motif, Kindred's the same thing just in a more pretentious way.

I am Pacman8 votes

{quoted}

Yep. Wolf's just a tool, like the Quinn-Valor thing. If I remember correctly Quinn was called Quinn & Valor originally on the champion listing on the PBE to try and cement the whole WE'RE TOGETHER motif, Kindred's the same thing just in a more pretentious way.

Well to be fair quinns ulti originally replaced her with her bird and changed her abilities a bit so I'd say its more justified than kindred.

Lexyy1 votes

Gosh I miss that ult :(

Lapis13 votes

Well to be fair, they're not really two champs, they're one champ split into two halves. But yeah, I get what you mean.

HongChongDong2 votes

{quoted}

Well to be fair, they're not really two champs, they're one champ split into two halves. But yeah, I get what you mean.

I want an honest to goodness dual champion design. Mechanics wise it could work in a similar fashion to stance switching. 2 existing units are on the map at all times and using the ult key can switch between the 2. The idle one is given minor defensive traits of some sorts while the other is active and being controlled.

Killing one leaves the player to switch to the remaining one and the other unit's spawn time is fixed to the ultimates CD and spawns back at the players location once the cooldown finishes. Or it could even be some sort of variation that also benefited from combination designs. Like having both near each other at the same time gave access to abilities that are used by both champions at once to give drastically increased potential.

Thematics wise it could be deity type figures. Maybe even fire and Ice deities working together, much in the same contrasting dynamic as Kindred.

reaperteaser1 votes

kind like how kled and scarl work, they should also have 2 different health bars

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Kled and Skaarl are 2 entities in 2 bodies or in other words: when it comes to lore they exist independant from each other.

Kindred on the other hand are 1 entity in 2 bodies. One can not be without the other. So it makes perfect sense that they have one health bar. Because they are actually one being.

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

they're one champ split into two halves.

This isn't true FYI. It's been confirirmed by riot that this story is a myth made up by the people of runtera and is not kindreds true origin. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/H8socwE1-new-champion-qa-kindred-the-eternal-hunters?comment=009c0000 http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/H8socwE1-new-champion-qa-kindred-the-eternal-hunters?comment=009c0001

Orangesilk10 votes

I mean, I often feel like the whole "Multiple entities" Gameplay is much better played by:

Orianna Azir Lulu Simply because the positioning of the non-player entity is controlled, relevant and even crucial to their gamestyle.

GinkoG3 votes

I believe you forgot one insane yordle in there Kled and his lizard.

Orangesilk13 votes

Frankly, he doesn't feel like a dual champion. He feels like a reverse two-phase boss, where the really hard phase is the first one and then the second phase is a breeze.

It's all about how -gameplay- feels though, as far as character development goes, of course wolf and skarl feel much more like living things than Oriannas ball or Azir soldiers, but -gameplay- wise they're an ability and an extra hp bar, not a separare entity.

Jet Sett1 votes

A cavalryman's horse is important but is used moreso as a tool on the battlefield, in Kled's case a speedy charge into battle and a meat shield.

Wolf feels the same way, but he's not some hunter's trained dog; he's the other half of death. Feels like death is 90% Lamb and Wolf is there for the ride, which is technically a problem for a champ who's got a duality theme. He doesn't even have half of the kit to share.

Ralanr7 votes

It's pretty common to think so. Wolf doesn't really feel very interactive, more like he's being guided by Lamb instead of being an equal.

ModAcademy Kayn11 votes

If we're to assume that they're opposites, doesn't that mean one must lead while the other obeys? Wolf is meant to be feral, and impatient, while Lamb is the opposite, keeping each other in check.

Ralanr2 votes

That's some deep thinking right there.

Great Fox7 votes

As one of the few Kindred mains out there, I can say that I have always felt that Kindred should be referred to as; "her". Simply because Lamb is the dominant portrayal, both as a character, art design and voice-over. Wolf is a small particle effect and bites things with W. That's about the extent of that character.

qqpp6 votes

Because they aren't two different entities, they are one being split in half. They fight together, and if they had seperate kits that would take away their whole concept.

Photos of Ghosts3 votes

But they don't have the same kit, they have Lamb's kit. Kindred is Lamb, not Lamb and Wolf

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

OMG why do people still say this? it was confirmed by riot from the beginning that the story of the "pale man" isn't true. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/H8socwE1-new-champion-qa-kindred-the-eternal-hunters?comment=009c0000 http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/H8socwE1-new-champion-qa-kindred-the-eternal-hunters?comment=009c0001

Papa Slothy4 votes

when I hear kindred, I think of lamb

Serika Zero4 votes

Kindred is a girl, otherwise name as Lamb. Just like Nunu is a yeti, otherwise named as whatever the yeti name is.

One of the "dual" champions in this game was Quinn, and she got reworked. Then there's Nidalee and Elise, even Jayce.

Kindred, she's only dual in lore. Not in-game and playstyle and gameplay. Even Kled is 1 and a half...

TheMinez3 votes

Nunu is the kid on the yeti... I believe that Willump is the name for the yeti.

Photos of Ghosts3 votes

That's the point. Nunu is the yeti, Kindred is the lamb. They're bad executions of a thematic.

Dominick Destine3 votes

Kindred is a chick wolf.I never bought the "It's two GHOSTS" nonsense.

Before I stopped playing HoN entirely... I remember there being this hero that was two wolves, one fire and one ice, they split in two and you had to micromanage both. Here it is http://hon.gamepedia.com/Gemini

Gemini > Kindred

Don't get me wrong, LoL > HoN, it's just Kindred's design is awful. It seems like it was just an appeal to feminists, similar to Illaoi. This is why Leona will always be better than them. Leona is a cool character without being straight up pandering. Leona is cool.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

How is Lamb an appeal to feminists, it's just a botched work

Dominick Destine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j5EvWELE,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2017-02-15T17:07:47.481+0000)

How is Lamb an appeal to feminists, it's just a botched work

Kindred is meant to be a 'stealth' token character which appeals to feminist theory, in this case "Transgenderism" from Tumblr.

Now I will give credit to Riot, they did a much better job appealing to feminists than , say, Overwatch (Fuck you Blizzard). But I still think they did a bad job and the champion was lazily designed and poorly thought out. I just wish they'd keep these thinly veiled political appeals out of the game. I liked it better the game was about the game.

(Ex: Singed represents no one but himself, Xin Zhao is not a political commentary on ponytails, Brand is not a condemnation of the alcohol industry [Brandy], etc.)

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Hwat

Dominick Destine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j5EvWELE,comment-id=000f000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-15T17:36:37.553+0000)

What?

The last part was a joke (Obviously).

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

No really wat

Ulfhednar3 votes

I agree. Personally I find the concept of the champion incredibly appealing but the execution gameplay wise could have been done better In my opinion, they should change 2 spells: Their E and R I think that q and e should be Lamb's spells and w and r Wolf's spells. So conceptually it's even ground Q is Lamb working on her own, W is Wolf working on his own but being Assisted by lamb because of the Q cd interaction, E should be changed to something a little more Lamb focused or leave it how it is and R should be completely altered to let Wolf have a chance to play. I find the concept of "Lamb's Respite" to be very awkward. They're death incarnate, why prolong a life? I think Wolf should gain more of a physical form (legs, actual body, maybe a bushy ass tail) and become fairly bigger for a period of time before retreating back into Spectral form Lamb would then hop onto his back and it would be a kind of Sejuani/annie type thing where you actually Play as wolf but with the occasional support from Lamb So example Their w changes slightly, like it either becomes a semi steroid for wolf or just an active, I dunno maybe He takes a bite out of a target Their Q would essentially stay the same but no Hip Hop, more like line skillshot so as if Lamb were to Fire an arrow from Wolf's back Their E stays the same but on the third strike Wolf lunges to the target thus carrying both him and lamb to the destination Granted this is all just a thought that I'm sure in many ways can be considered Op as hell but still, Just figured it could be an interesting 2 cents on the matter

Skelenth2 votes

Muh particle effect

Tribbles Foxfolk2 votes

{quoted}

I've seen her played countless times and played her myself on occasion and she's just never felt or looked like 2 characters. it's always just seemed like 1 champion with animations and a single ability that's been glorified as "2 champions". A good character non the less, both thematic wise and lore wise. But I just can't seem to see her as more than 1 champion.

Honestly, Kindred would have been an interesting chance for Riot to experiment in another form-changing champ. Even if they're relatively hard to balance, I really think they could have done something with Kindred.

Wolf could have been a melee chaser or executor that mercilessly hunts down wounded foes using his superior mobility, but lacking escapes and utility. (no stuns/snares/roots/whatever, maybe a slow)

Kindred could have been a ranged DPS with good utility and sustained damage, but not having much burst and a weak disengage at best for her escape.

Didn't come to be. Disappointing, especially with her current state.

GrReaper962 votes

Yeah i would really love for them to emphasize on the choice between lambs arrows or wolfs fangs. If they choose to duel they would have to face lamb, while if they choose to run then wolf will chase after them

Chembaron Yamada2 votes

Even that wouldn't fit their lore. Lamb is not dueling, lamb is for the people who accepted and embraced the death. When it comes to gameplay, that would mean people who are intentionally feeding. Everyone else HAS to face the wolf, doesn't matter if they run or fight back.

Kindred are actually too complex in lore to represent them correctly in the gameplay. A form changer wouldn't really make sense either, until it is forced.

If you want to represent Kindred's lore correctly into the game, it would have to be something like this: Kindred have 2 forms, lamb and wolf. You are in the ranged lamb stance (ranged) by default. If you take any damage from an enemy champion, you automatically transform into the wolf stance (melee).

Serika Zero1 votes

well Alex, Jayce is very similar to this. That's why in another post I said that he is more of a dual champion than Kindred. Elise and Nidalee also are very similar to your concept.

Quort2 votes

Wolf is just a glorified Pix. :/

Mysticman891 votes

See also: Quinn

IGotScuttleCrabs5 votes

Quinn and Valor WERE two different champions. They stripped Valor down to nothing more than a taxi and a particle effect. RIP

GemCrash1 votes

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/96/ff/49/96ff498d23facec7daf47b53f3f79465.jpg

StudMuffinChris1 votes

Hey! I actually just touched on this in a post I made regarding a Kindred rework; you should head on over and tell me what you think!

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E1Q86IvU-possible-kindred-rework

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