And just like that, Riot attacks.

HongChongDong·Feb 9, 2017·68 votes·3,583 views

We've been asking for damage creep nerfs for awhile, and dear god did we get it. Riot is like a hungry Warwick who had just broken his leash. One minute we think they're idle and waiting and the next, BOOM they get to work on the next patch cycle everything is dead in the blink of a eye.

I've had mixed feelings over the years but non the less, keep up the good work Riot games! I love you guys!

Though I still have my doubts about the Blackcleaver nerf. I really can't imagine that it'll hit the champions who're abusing it that hard. The build path becomes weaker for damage and the end result makes them slightly tankier with a reduced 10 AD. Since the item was made for juggernauts and bruisers alike, wouldn't it be better to come up with a way to tie the armor shred to defensive stats?

49 Comments

Sraeg2013Feb 9, 201757 votes

Scarizard a live balance designer is leaving tomorrow and suddenly we have LOGICAL balance changes.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/776/609/610.gif

TinseiFeb 9, 20171 votes

What is this from?

Heretic LunariFeb 9, 20172 votes

The Incredibles

Glory ln DeathFeb 9, 201717 votes

How does one not recognize The Incredibles?!?

Legacy HydralphaFeb 9, 201721 votes

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/920/168/db7.jpg

Glory ln DeathFeb 9, 20175 votes

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/691/973/e75.jpg

TinseiFeb 10, 20171 votes

Wow, i honestly don't know how I didn't recognize it, i feel dumb now*[zombie-brand-facepalm]*

SulghunterFeb 10, 20173 votes

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.190022892.2668/raf,750x1000,075,t,101010:01c5ca27c6.jpg

Sraeg2013Feb 10, 20172 votes

This image is awful. Let me fix it.

http://i.imgur.com/QhTe5Tw.jpg?b

Done.

Photos of GhostsFeb 10, 20171 votes

I still don't lol

ChaoticPineconeFeb 10, 20171 votes

From the scene where Bolt's teacher is accusing Bolt (rightfully) of putting tacks on his chair, but he cant see it happening. It went something like, "There is no tack on my chair. Then Bolt twitches and theres a tack on my chair! Coincidence? I think not! He is guilty!" while the principal looks at the teacher like he is crazy.

TyrekGoldenspearFeb 10, 20171 votes

*Dash

ChaoticPineconeFeb 10, 20171 votes

...dammit.

Naruto is infiltrating my mind.

An Undead bratFeb 9, 20171 votes

Wait, is he?

ModCaptainMårvelousFeb 9, 20173 votes

Yep. His last day is friday.

An Undead bratFeb 9, 20171 votes

AHAHAH I can't even tbh

Why is this so funny

AeszarckFeb 9, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sexy Bisex Plant,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EbMT4tsu,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-02-09T20:57:59.807+0000)

AHAHAH I can't even tbh

Why is this so funny

I don't know why you think it's funny either. I liked Scarizard.

An Undead bratFeb 10, 20171 votes

I have literally neutral opinion on him, it's just funny that someone leaves and shit just goes down the waterfall - I guess it's the "some people just want to see the world burn" phenomenon xD

kitcat300Feb 9, 20178 votes

https://twitter.com/RiotScarizard/status/828776270775279616

"the only time I worked on LoL's balance was s2/s3"

Sraeg2013Feb 9, 20172 votes

Then what the heck was he doing for the past 4 years?

TyrekGoldenspearFeb 9, 20173 votes

Writting Witty patch notes, clearly.

AeszarckFeb 9, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Then what the heck was he doing for the past 4 years?

This is what scarizard has done at Riot.

oh man i don't wanna sound like i'm tootin' my own horn but there's a lot of misinformation so: essentially, worked on live gameplay (balancing) from 2012-2014, and got to help work on a few champions (lucian, vel'koz, kha'zix, zed, as well as owning the Karma rework). My last project in design was working on the 'new' summoners rift in 2014! after that, I moved on to work in player relations / communications with Pwyff, working on all sorts of player-facing stuff like Patch Notes and the Patch Rundown. aside from that, tons of random stuff like hosting the league podcast, the design streams / monthly ghostcrawler Q&A's, was in a lot of the allchat videos, helped write and voice a ton of videos (like preseason spotlights, champ spotlights, tutorials etc), casted and analyst desk'd a few collegiate esports events, wrote a ton of behind-the-scenes stuff and just talked with players about the game's design as much as i could!

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/5sgo1z/scarizard_leaving_riot/ddf5ui7/

Sraeg2013Feb 9, 20176 votes

as well as owning the Karma rework

Aaand I instantly hate the dude.

AeszarckFeb 10, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Aaand I instantly hate the dude.

You can hate him for the rework, but he hasn't been doing any balance lately, so your original point is a coincidence.

JRobin31Feb 10, 20171 votes

He was awesome! Totally going to miss what this guys has done for LoL. Best of Luck to whatever he's doing next.

Variks the LoyalFeb 9, 201722 votes

The Black Cleaver change won't effect the Juggernauts and Divers who build it. It will effect the Skirmishers, Marksmen, and Assassins who build it.

I think it's perfect.

Sun Wu RyuumokuFeb 9, 20171 votes

MonkeyKing won't affect Divers u say... lel . It'll affect all class building it... its a buff for most of Jugger and buff for some Divers Renekton LeeSin ... but its still a nerf for their early. And yes, it s a nerf for other Divers Pantheon , and other class skirmisher Riven Tryndamere , assassin Zed Talon , marksmen Lucian ...

IllegalBagelFeb 9, 20171 votes

Garen

MightyCaesar37Feb 9, 20173 votes

Ah I see you remembered the one true assassin in the game.

ChaosThiefFeb 9, 20172 votes

Divers are typically tanky (Irelia and camille are both divers, and they both become fairly tanky) so yes, it won't affect divers.

And it should weaken skirmishers like riven and tryndamere, as well as assassins, and it shouldn't even be built on marksmen.

Sun Wu RyuumokuFeb 10, 20171 votes

funny... Irelia & Camille don't build BC. And it affect other divers positively or negativly.

MonkeyKing is a Divers... but he don't need more HP, AD is better for him. And for Divers like its a nerf for his early/snowball cause u'll build this item 3067 instead this item 3133 . Full item is better for renekton after change IMO.

ChaosThiefFeb 10, 20171 votes

The idea is to nerf the snowball. They're trying to reduce damage across the board, so this is exactly as intended...

Sun Wu RyuumokuFeb 10, 20171 votes

yeah... seems legit...

UltîmaFeb 10, 20171 votes

Completely disagree; kindlegem is just not a good laning item. The stats on it are very mediocre and people like Darius and Illaoi will miss the extra AD a LOT. These guys needed the power of that item to pop-off and start building tanky; they'll now be even more reliant on building a secondary damage item in order to dish out better DPS. It'll be far worse on other bruisers top who built it like Riven, Fiora and Renekton. The item will be objectively worse off on people who needed it in their build. News flash; the ability to stack flat lethality is the real culprit here. GB, BoD and EoN are insanely broken in combination with one-another. Reverting BC to it's season 5 state is a mistake.

Variks the LoyalFeb 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Completely disagree; kindlegem is just not a good laning item. The stats on it are very mediocre and people like Darius and Illaoi will miss the extra AD a LOT. These guys needed the power of that item to pop-off and start building tanky; they'll now be even more reliant on building a secondary damage item in order to dish out better DPS. It'll be far worse on other bruisers top who built it like Riven, Fiora and Renekton. The item will be objectively worse off on people who needed it in their build. News flash; the ability to stack flat lethality is the real culprit here. GB, BoD and EoN are insanely broken in combination with one-another. Reverting BC to it's season 5 state is a mistake.

They will miss the AD, but an extra 100 health is nothing to scoff at.

The extra health is a nice chunk of defenses that are further amplified by resistances.

Moreover, you can 'half-build' another item before building cleaver. For example, Renekton could grab Tiamat first before getting Phage > Kindlegem > Cleaver.

Spaceman5pffFeb 9, 201717 votes

Simply making the build path less damage-oriented is a huge nerf to the carries building it.

What Assassin / Marksman wants to sit on a Kindlegem?

An Undead bratFeb 9, 20173 votes

Ashe , it's always cold in the Freljord...

An Undead bratFeb 9, 201713 votes

Ashe , it's always cold in Freljord...

SweedishGunnerFeb 9, 201712 votes

Malzahar still won't be reverted though. FeelsBadMan.

IcyPepperFeb 9, 20172 votes

wouldn't it be better to come up with a way to tie the armor shred to defensive stats?

Not really, if we're being honest here. Armor piercing/defense shred has always been traditionally offensive in video games. It would not make sense for an item to be "I'm tanky, you're tanky, suddenly now you're less tanky." If that happened, and BC became a good item on tanks/bruisers, it would continue to enforce a bit of a meta. Bruisers are supposed to trade some damage for tankiness and/or some tankiness for damage through their hybrid bruiser items, getting offensive stats for your entire team by building tankier is just asking for trouble.

Instead, it would be more wise (in my opinion!) to have it scale toward time spent in battle, usually taking damage. That is a direct result from being tanky (you're on the frontline and can last longer than a squishy!) as well as giving your team incentive to help keep you alive (giving Soraka, for instance, a way to take more initiative in a teamfight rather than only stay behind with the squishies).

Honestly, I could see BC staying the same with its new change but a new item for AD tanks just as I described, but with the same unique passive name (so they don't stack, jeez!). It'd have to be tuned to avoid a noodle fight tank meta, but could prolong teamfights slightly as well as promote team play (instead of everyone doing their roles and just that, they might have more incentive to help each other survive to and increase their team's damage). I'd take out the rage passive too, and make the armor shred higher but the requirement to get it even harder (maybe fifteen seconds in battle to get 40% armor shred?).

I'm just spitballing here. I don't play LoL as much as I used to, mostly because I'm waiting for a teamfighting meta to rise.

Sozan5Feb 10, 20171 votes

I dunno about your first point. While armor shred on an offensive character isn't completely uncommon, I feel like armor pierce is used way more often.

Armor Reduction is usually used by pure support characters (along with plenty of other debilitating abilities) or very tanky fighers (those slow guys that protect your main damage dealers while being hard to ignore). Those are your FFT Knights (played normally. I don't mean the Dual Wielding Excalibur + Ragnarok immortal one-shotting Knights) etc.

IcyPepperFeb 10, 20171 votes

In this game, I'm not sure tying armor shred to the support role would be a wise idea. Even though the support role is equally important to the others, players aren't always pleased when their item gets taken away and given to them.

But yeah, those tanky fighters you mentioned have fighting capabilities, it's not like their armor is the one with the armor shred (it's usually the axes, ain't it?). Armor shred, in my opinion, should be tied to offensive stats if there was scaling whatsoever, but only be useful on tanky champions.

Sozan5Feb 10, 20171 votes

To be fair, there was armor shred on support in League.

ACTIVE: Taric shatters his gemstones, dealing magic damage to all nearby enemies as well as reducing their armor for 4 seconds. MAGIC DAMAGE: 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 (+ 20% armor) ARMOR REDUCTION: 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 (+ 5% armor)

Literally scaling with his own armor. xD

(it's usually the axes, ain't it?)

You bet'cha.

Armor shred, in my opinion, should be tied to offensive stats if there was scaling whatsoever, but only be useful on tanky champions.

Which might be hard to do, due to how offensive stats work in league, as you don't have restrictions on items (unlike in other games, the only guy who can equip/learn the armor reduction stuff is that tanky guy) so anytime an item like this shows up, it's immidiately abused by adcs, assassins etc. (primary damage dealers).

That said, tying it directly to defensive stats is also not good, since then full tanks make the most use of it (which is not how it's intended).

Maybe dual cap thingy? Like:

Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion Cleaves them, reducing their armor by 1% (+1% for every 45 bonus AD, up to 2% max +1% for every 450 bonus health up to 2% max) for 6 seconds, stacking up to 6 times

So, you'd need to have 90 bonus AD and 900 bonus health to get full effect (not exactly hard to get, but both primary damage dealers and tanks would need to go out of their way to get those). This would also make the item not perfect for rushing, since you would need some stats beforehand.

Also, it would make the item needlessly complicated.

ArakadiaFeb 10, 20172 votes

I think more than just masteries need to be looked at, but yeah this is great.

iamthegoatofwarFeb 9, 20171 votes

Guess you could say it's the damage creep's last surprise...

Illâoi Evê SiônFeb 9, 20171 votes

You can't buy both Black Cleaver and Giant Slayer now.

Faceroll TacticsFeb 9, 20171 votes

Meh, the bruisers using the lethality build everyone hates aren't even building black cleaver, at least the ones I have seen skip it for a faster youmuu'a/edge of night for instant deletion

ElikainFeb 9, 20171 votes

Wait a few days and people are going to be back here, saying Riot nerfed those values (by 2%) way too much and how there's no more damage in games at all. Only heals. Heals for everyone.

ShaydroxFeb 10, 20171 votes

I just wish they'd share their thoughts on these types of comments the community makes. Even if they'd just say "we disagree" I'd be happy to have even a slight clue what they are up to.