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Why is Jayce the Only Form Shifter with Mana Costs?

The Yetii Rider··3 votes·794 views

There are many form-shifting champions in the game. Rek'sai, Gnar, Nidalee, Elise, Jayce.

However, Jayce is the only one of these champions who has mana costs in both forms. I believe strongly that that's one reason Jayce's balance is always so lopsided. AD mana itemization is kept intentionally terrible, but since Jayce has to pay for 6 skills he is forced to deal with the scraps and figure things out from there. The mana restore with Hammer Form W isn't very useful either.

Couldn't we just solve this issue by removing his mana costs entirely when he goes ham...mer? Elise and Nidalee both have zero mana costs in their melee forms and are able to chase and fight more effectively while Jayce kind of sits in Cannon getting shots off and only goes Hammer to knock someone back if they get too close.

Is there a reason Jayce has to be the only champion in the game paying for 6 skills at this point?

22 Comments

ModWulf Helhammer6 votes

Hahahaha no.

As a Jayce player, that would be absurdly broken (And I don't have mana problems after I start stacking tear).

And Gnar doesn't count as he cant control it...and neither does Rek'Sai. That's hardly a form shift

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Hahahaha no.

As a Jayce player, that would be absurdly broken (And I don't have mana problems after I start stacking tear).

And Gnar doesn't count as he cant control it...and neither does Rek'Sai. That's hardly a form shift

"I don't have mana problems after I start stacking Tear"

Sure, but that's a cost that sets you behind. Is Jayce really so powerful in the early game that it's acceptable for him to be forced to buy and slowly stack over time an item that gives him no combat stats for 750 gp?

I'm saying that if we remove the mana costs from Hammer form then Jayce's balance won't be directly tied to how powerful or non-powerful Muramana is.

Quepha5 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j4H3joOw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-06-07T13:58:35.825+0000) Is Jayce really so powerful in the early game

YES

Sasogwa2 votes

Why do others have no manacosts?*

RogueWill2 votes

Why? because unlike all other shapeshifters Jayce can actually function without charging forms. Ideally you want to focus on one stance anyway so dealing with his mana cost ain't that hard

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Why? because unlike all other shapeshifters Jayce can actually function without charging forms. Ideally you want to focus on one stance anyway so dealing with his mana cost ain't that hard

If you spend all your time in one stance anyway then what is the point of having two forms? Nidalee and Elise function so well when they switch constantly and exploit their ranged skills to make their melee better. Jayce doesn't have any synergy between his two forms.

RogueWill1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j4H3joOw,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-06-07T14:08:14.995+0000)

If you spend all your time in one stance anyway then what is the point of having two forms? Nidalee and Elise function so well when they switch constantly and exploit their ranged skills to make their melee better. Jayce doesn't have any synergy between his two forms.

Well.... I'm a little rusty on jayce. If you go for hammer stance focus, your lance stance allows you to survive your early (which is pathetic) and let you snipe kills that went out of range late.

If you are focusing on Lance form then his Hammer form allows you to disengage easily if things go south, Gate + knock back on hammer and then back to lance to hit your Q.

He has synergy between his forms, they cover high weaknesses between each other, is just that the way you build Jayce is focused mostly on one form. Think of it this way, you used to go AP nidalee if you were to be on human form and AD nidalee if you were planing to mostly stay on cat form, you still changed form but your build and gameplay woudl change constantly depending on teh form you were focusing (pre-rework nidalee)

Guyy Fieri1 votes

It's more to allow players flexibility to play the champ in whatever manner is most advantageous

stealthfox941 votes

{quoted}

Why? because unlike all other shapeshifters Jayce can actually function without charging forms. Ideally you want to focus on one stance anyway so dealing with his mana cost ain't that hard

Uh yeah no, In most cases this isn't true.

MisterHealYoGirl2 votes

Although any Jayce player will use both stances, he tends to spend 80-90% of his time in one or the other, building either armor pen and flat AD (cannon form, usually mid or top) or juggernaut (hammer form usually top). Other champs with transform skills (Nidalee, Elise, Rek'Sai) have to switch back and forth constantly, using all six skills in one combo. They can be balanced around having only one side have mana costs, because they still need the other side.

stealthfox942 votes

No way. His mana cost are intentionally kept high to gate his damage some. Without them he'd be OP. Gnar can't control his forms, Elise isn't as good in teamfights as Jayce and doesn't have as much sustained damage. Nid is basically a lower AOE worse laning version of Jayce who's better at waveclear ( which is why she became a jungler) and I'm not even sure I'd consider Rek'sai a shape shifter.

Hethalean1 votes

Why is Gnar even the only form shifter that can't control his transformation very easily? I think that he should be able to transform more controllable.

zlumpy1 votes

That was a gameplay mechanic added to allow an enemy player to control his offensive capabilities with proper counter play. It becomes your job to manage yourself and prevent the enemy from controlling your gameplay.

Hethalean1 votes

Yeah, I wasn't being serious. I was pointing out that Jayce is balanced around his mana costs in both forms like Gnar is balanced around his Transformation being less controllable.

zlumpy1 votes

Sorry I can never tell who is and isnt serious on these boards.

Hethalean1 votes

No prob. It was poorly written.

Guyy Fieri1 votes

That would be so broken to just choose when you're mega...engage city

Besides, much like the Jayve mana issue, a good Gnar can be mega whenever he needs it

Hethalean1 votes

Yeah, I wasn't being serious. I was pointing out that Jayce is balanced around his mana costs in both forms like Gnar is balanced around his Transformation being less controllable.

spombjop1 votes

Nidalee has mana pool. just because she doesn't have costs on cougar that doesn't mean that she is manaless ffs. her most op spell is Q in human form

SaltyKracka1 votes

Transformation champs were a mistake.

stealthfox941 votes

{quoted}

Transformation champs were a mistake.

They're so fun to play though.

SaltyKracka1 votes

Horrible to balance, though.

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