Meddler/Ghostcrawler what is the intended armor breaking…

Irelia Bot · 2018-05-05T14:43:45.288Z

If the new true damage in place of 50% more crit damage were the only change it would have the desired stated goal of lower damage against squishy targets and higher damage against high armor targets. If the changes to Infinity Edge were limited to this and only this I would say you succeed in your stated goals. My question is not about that though. It is realted to the actual effects of changing IE from 20% crit chance to doubling crit chance meaning that a Zeal item + IE gives 60% crit chance compared to the current 50% on live. If you calculate for this higher crit chance the point at which armor becomes less effective on the PBE currently compared to live is 62.5 armor which seems really low. Even marksmen have that much base armor by around level 13 meaning that this is an all around buff for marksmen damage even agaisnt squishies and there is no way to escape this fact. 125 armor would make more sense but is not the case due to the new IE doubling the 30% of a Zeal item meanign 10% more crit chance and in turn higher damage overall. If Zeal items had 25% crit chance down from 30% then 125 armor would be the breaking point which would actaully reach the stated goals of lower damage to squishes and higher damage to tanks So what is the intended armor breaking point for when armor becomes less effective with the new 8.11 IE compared to the live IE?

Vid the StrangeMay 5, 20184 votes

{quoted}

i like how there is a "breaking point for adc to be starter than they were before...

THERE IS NO NEED FOR A FUCKING BREAKING POINT adc need MASSIVE nerfs in every single aspect, hell the "buff" they gave to mages is more if a nerf, than the nerf to ADC's.

like how fucking biased can u get. this is absurd... i mean its been TWO FUCKING YEARS, and u STILL have to try to fucking "COMPENSATE"

they nerff NERFS GIANT FUCKING FLAT NERFS. they dont need ANY form of compensation. not even in the slightest .

You want the entire class to be worthless AND remove the only efficient means of killing tanks?

Nuking the entire class just results in a tank meta (because the class that's supposed to keep tanks in check as the game goes on just got gutted) where the only 'usable' ADCs would be Ashe and Sivir, who even then would only really function as "secondary supports".

Making ADCs worthless also makes assassins borderline worthless by extension because who are they going to assassinate? They can kill the enemy's wave-clear mage if they have one, but then they're left shrugging their shoulders at the tanks they can't kill.

You're left with a game that's nothing but tanks and wave-clear mages, and I don't know about you, but that sounds agonizingly boring.

Irelia BotMay 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vid the Strange,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j3kYiNEy,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-05-05T21:45:53.105+0000)

You want the entire class to be worthless AND remove the only efficient means of killing tanks?

Nuking the entire class just results in a tank meta (because the class that's supposed to keep tanks in check as the game goes on just got gutted) where the only 'usable' ADCs would be Ashe and Sivir, who even then would only really function as "secondary supports".

Making ADCs worthless also makes assassins borderline worthless by extension because who are they going to assassinate? They can kill the enemy's wave-clear mage if they have one, but then they're left shrugging their shoulders at the tanks they can't kill.

You're left with a game that's nothing but tanks and wave-clear mages, and I don't know about you, but that sounds agonizingly boring.

You can nerf marksmen and tanks at the same time. You don't have to exclusively nerf one or the other.

Vid the StrangeMay 5, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j3kYiNEy,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-05-05T21:55:25.363+0000)

You can nerf marksmen and tanks at the same time. You don't have to exclusively nerf one or the other.

If you nerf tanks so that non-ADC classes can handle them at more points in the game, then why would anyone ever play a tank?

SwiftKitten88May 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vid the Strange,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j3kYiNEy,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-05-05T21:45:53.105+0000)

You want the entire class to be worthless AND remove the only efficient means of killing tanks?

Nuking the entire class just results in a tank meta (because the class that's supposed to keep tanks in check as the game goes on just got gutted) where the only 'usable' ADCs would be Ashe and Sivir, who even then would only really function as "secondary supports".

Making ADCs worthless also makes assassins borderline worthless by extension because who are they going to assassinate? They can kill the enemy's wave-clear mage if they have one, but then they're left shrugging their shoulders at the tanks they can't kill.

You're left with a game that's nothing but tanks and wave-clear mages, and I don't know about you, but that sounds agonizingly boring.

lol what part of "adc needs massive fucking nerfs" means that if they get get those nerf they will be "worthless"

are you really that unaware about how strong they are right now...

Vid the StrangeMay 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

lol what part of "adc needs massive fucking nerfs" means that if they get get those nerf they will be "worthless"

are you really that unaware about how strong they are right now...

You're looking for a massive power shift (from burst towards sustained damage) rather than a massive nerf.

When you say "massive fucking nerfs", the weight of the words implies that you want ADCs to be worthless.

SwiftKitten88May 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vid the Strange,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j3kYiNEy,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-05T22:26:43.085+0000)

You're looking for a massive power shift (from burst towards sustained damage) rather than a massive nerf.

When you say "massive fucking nerfs", the weight of the words implies that you want ADCs to be worthless.

ok well, that would probably have been a better way to word it, yeah [sg-lulu]

ΦmalphintoΦMay 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

ok well, that would probably have been a better way to word it, yeah [sg-lulu]

he is lvl 15

SwiftKitten88May 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

he is lvl 15

umm ok? how does that have any affect of if what he says is true or not? i did phrase that very badly... he somehow miraculously understood the true meaning of what i was trying to say, and wrote a much better way to say it, and i agreed that was a much better way to word it.

and seriously do u really judge a person's idea based on the level they post of or their elo rather than the merit of their idea?

that is a horrible mentality.

i don't care if i hate a person.. or their main... if they make a insightful post. that is fantastic. and i will gladly upvote it.

likewise i have downvoted people who have tried to back the same point as me because they are trying to claim completly false thing in order to "support" their claim.. and even if i think that claim is true... i don't condone people falsifying statements, regardless if if what they say would support my cause or not. especially because falsifying data actually hurts the cause rather than helps it.

i have even seen posts from forum members i know to be genuine trollers, who i won't name for shaming reasons but.

even they can eventually be correct once in a blue moon.

stop judging posts on who wrote it.. and judge the post on the context of the post.

ΦmalphintoΦMay 6, 20181 votes

{quoted} stop judging posts on who wrote it.. and judge the post on the context of the post.

Short Answer No, i prefer to judge people from the personality. if anyone is hiding on a low level account instead of his/her main account so no one can know his/her previous data on boards or even personality. That simple means is not my level, not my friend, can't be my friend, will never be whatsoever happen.

i'm not like you i would prefer a direct person to argue with me instead of being a picture of someone i will never know!

Vid the StrangeMay 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Short Answer No, i prefer to judge people from the personality. if anyone is hiding on a low level account instead of his/her main account so no one can know his/her previous data on boards or even personality. That simple means is not my level, not my friend, can't be my friend, will never be whatsoever happen.

i'm not like you i would prefer a direct person to argue with me instead of being a picture of someone i will never know!

This is the only account I have that can even post on boards, though.

ΦmalphintoΦMay 6, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vid the Strange,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j3kYiNEy,comment-id=000300000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-06T20:35:46.569+0000)

This is the only account I have that can even post on boards, though.

proof? old account name? if this is ur first account on the game you can't be aware of adc, tanks, dmg, defense items, champions 140x etc, all of this u can't know by just getting to lvl 15 on first account.

if you have other accounts please let me know the names.

Vid the StrangeMay 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

proof? old account name? if this is ur first account on the game you can't be aware of adc, tanks, dmg, defense items, champions 140x etc, all of this u can't know by just getting to lvl 15 on first account.

if you have other accounts please let me know the names.

I've never been higher than silver 4 on any account I've ever played on, and those accounts are banned anyway, so it's a moot point either way.

I make observations and form thoughts based on numbers and what general consensus seems to be on things. It's not actually that hard to understand this game on a fundamental level, even if you're not good at execution.

Irelia BotMay 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

i like how there is a "breaking point for adc to be starter than they were before...

THERE IS NO NEED FOR A FUCKING BREAKING POINT adc need MASSIVE nerfs in every single aspect, hell the "buff" they gave to mages is more if a nerf, than the nerf to ADC's.

like how fucking biased can u get. this is absurd... i mean its been TWO FUCKING YEARS, and u STILL have to try to fucking "COMPENSATE"

they nerff NERFS GIANT FUCKING FLAT NERFS. they dont need ANY form of compensation. not even in the slightest .

This is more about how they are applying buffs through a mask of changes that are called nerfs. 62.5 armor is the current point where armor becomes less effective against an IE + Zeal item. IF it was 50% crit chance instead of the 60% that it currently is on PBE it would be at 125 armor where it becomes less effective compaired to live.

I ma not saying this is enough but that this doesn't even reach one of the state goals of lowering damage to squishes since squishes more often than not have at least 62.5 armor come mid to late game. If it was 125 armor I would at least entertain the idea of this being a step in the right direction.

Personally I would much rather see BF sword provide 25% base AD+ 10 flat AD so marksmen get less from it.

Would also be fine if they didn't make IE build form 2 BF swrods an kept it's current build path and 20% crit chance at 80% outside of Trynda and Yasuo. This would be an all around nerf to the class as well.

ZT XperimentorMay 7, 20181 votes

While I agree they need nerfs (partially from them been the focus point for far longer than two years), they could at least do it in a more interesting way; such as making mobility items and lifesteal items unique so they have to choose which defensive measure they want, would be an example. Also a rage post isn't going to get traction or look good regardless if being correct, take a moment to get a drink of water or something.

Meddler/Ghostcrawler what is the intended armor breaking point for new IE + zeal to be better?

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