Karma 44.16% win rate Mid?

IxtaliKing··9 votes·1,413 views

Am I missing something here, what's changed?

36 Comments

REDREX75 votes

I havent played in like a week so that is one reason. ;p jk Um reasons azir is fairly good against her in higher elo at least. Swain was op for a while and i dont think karma has the sustain damage to get through his absurd healing atm, Tanks are still strong and karma has a more difficult time to get through them. those are the few reasons that come from the top of my head.

IxtaliKing1 votes

I hope to God she gets updated sometime soon, so much wasted potential.

MunchCrunchLunch3 votes

because shes bad. unreliable cc. her shielding and utility is meh. and her damage is reliant on a single ability. she does nothing compared to a regular mage

IxtaliKing2 votes

I'd rather them remove the cc from her kit entirely and pour her power budget into her damage and utility, since they don't mind making champs reliant on Rylai's nowadays. There's no need for her to be held back by a kit that tries to do everything.

SilverSquid3 votes

Buff Dumpster Karma strikes again!

Just kidding, she is already back up at 46,4% or a pretty average 50,49, depending on where you look.

I still think with her low playmaking abilities and high counterplay her buffs seem to go nowhere, and now that her popularity spike is over and people learned how to play against her, she seems toothless yet again. "Sleeper OP Karma" went back to sleep before fully waking up.

IxtaliKing1 votes

Can't say I'm surprised tbh. I'm just waiting for riot to rework her now, there's no denying that she needs it. No use in continuing to kick the can down the road with all these buffs.

SilverSquid1 votes

Sooooouu... Karma seems to stagnate at ~48,5% This is still a loss of ~2%, down by 14 ranks in the winrate list This makes her one of the worst (45/48) midlane mages again in the overall ranking.

So it's not as dramatic as it first looked, but there's still something awfully weird about it.

IxtaliKing1 votes

She doesn't feel very good in Mid anymore, for the 1st time in a while I prefer her as a support and I find it disturbing. Remember her RE buff was aimed at ap Karma to take Lulu's place in solo lanes... lol

SilverSquid1 votes

"In an ecosystem where scaling supports are all the rage, Karma’s relative underperformance is a worrying trend. While Lulu and Lux transition strong gold leads to significant team utility, Karma’s unable to generate similar value, even when given her whole team’s resources. Her ‘strong early, weak late’ curve indicates Karma’s supportive scaling isn’t where it needs to be to merit consideration, so we’re adding some Sae to really make her Eleisa Tera Vi (yes, that’s a mantra joke)."

Ignoring that forced joke for a second; I don't know if they quite got the point. I mean, it's the life balance team, I don't think they factor in "design" a lot, they won't consider balancing the mantras with each other, they don't ponder whether giving her damage as a midlaner might make more sense than utility. Especially if this utility comes in form of values....

Her shields are only really strong when ahead, they are not tools of turning around fights, like instant stuns and knockbacks are. She can't surprisingly catch someone and she can't outplay someone with her utility. She falls off late and she can't turn it around with her kit. But buffing her shield values, that just hit EVERYONE, makes her oppressive when ahead, as there is similarly no way of outplaying "shields on everyone".

When there was still the shieldbomb, there at least was the incentive of not clumping, not creating situations, in which Karma can shield AND damage everonye. But there is no way you can prevent her from just shielding everyone with ridiculous values.

C'mon Riot....

IxtaliKing1 votes

You're absolutely right, her utility was fine before the buffs she just needed reliable damage for mid. I understand that Rickless did what he thought made sense with Karma's mantras, for people who didn't play her it made perfect sense; RQ for more damage, RW for more root, RE for more shield. Game play wise it just simplified her, that's why people who sucked with her before are better with her now, I would know because I'm one of them xD.

Now that the Battle Mage subclass has been identified as short medium ranged mages with durability and sustained damage, I think it's time for the shield bomb to return. Imo her shield bomb was the one spell of hers that truly screamed Battle Mage, even more so than Renewal.

SilverSquid2 votes

Game play wise it just simplified her, that's why people who sucked with her before are better with her now, I would know because I'm one of them xD.

I am a hybrid-knowledge player, I try to outwit anyone who is mechanically better than me and try to outplay anyone who knows more. Karma gave me the perfect balance of those. After 5.10 I suddenly felt predictable and unable to outsmart anyone, since my tools had been cut. I still love my Frozen Karma build, which cashes in on the 5.10 changes, but I really wish it never happened.

Now that the Battle Mage subclass has been identified as short medium ranged mages with durability and sustained damage, I think it's time for the shield bomb to return. Imo her shield bomb was the one spell of hers that truly screamed Battle Mage, even more so than Renewal.

I think so too. However, if shieldbomb returns, it must be in a different way, I expect. Maybe if the shield breaks, you get to use shieldbomb on your next cast (rewarding good protective play and granting offensive options), or you only get it when casting it on yourself (motivating you to be in close combat).

IxtaliKing1 votes

I am a hybrid-knowledge player, I try to outwit anyone who is mechanically better than me and try to outplay anyone who knows more. Karma gave me the perfect balance of those. After 5.10 I suddenly felt predictable and unable to outsmart anyone, since my tools had been cut.

Exactly, she was a much more skillful champ. I feel as if she was unpopular then because nobody really gave her a chance, but she was definitely a better champ.

However, if shieldbomb returns, it must be in a different way, I expect. Maybe if the shield breaks, you get to use shieldbomb on your next cast (rewarding good protective play and granting offensive options), or you only get it when casting it on yourself (motivating you to be in close combat).

I'd be cool with the damage only being on self cast, nobody could say that's unfair.

BLYAT moon Akali2 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Karma/Middle

maybe you're missing reality :P statistics for 6.11 are not out yet, right?

IxtaliKing1 votes

So why does it say it here then?

BLYAT moon Akali2 votes

combine it with her pick rate of below 2 % in mid and the time since 6.11 is out and you have...how many sample games to make statistics out of?

TL;DR: those 46% don't mean anything.

IxtaliKing1 votes

Kk.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Only true for EUW.

There's little-to-no change at other servers.

IxtaliKing1 votes

Oh okay fair enough, I was just surprised to see that.

9L9L9L9L9L9L9L1 votes

The term you're looking for is "meta shift". I don't think this meta favors Karma at all.

BLYAT moon Akali1 votes

why would it not?

Snowball4u1 votes

guinsoo rageblade

kappa

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

All her spells were changed, so she is better support and trash tier mid.

Vistha Kai7 votes

Ironic considering what her rework was supposed to do, right?

RookPusher1 votes

I don't get why anyone would take her mid. I use her support frequently, but that's because shield champs are brainlessly easy to get assists on. I don't like her kit though. I look at it like this:

Q - poke W - highly situational E - shield which is the bread and butter R - shield magnifier

I'm can feel the "you're doing it wrong" posts coming, but whatever. This is my 2 cents.

IxtaliKing1 votes

I don't get why anyone would take her mid.

Her rework was aimed at mid Lane, and even her most recent shield buffs where they super charged her ratios were aimed at increasing her utility from mid. That's why I'm confused as to why her win rate has dropped so suddenly, I'm curious to know what change has impacted her.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Bullshit.

Yes, her rework was meant to make her mage first support second, but each and every single change she got in the past year or so, was removing parts of her kit that made her mage.

She can't even properly clear waves anymore.

BLYAT moon Akali2 votes

her waveclear is great with a bit of ap. backline dies with 1 q. you can clear a wave with 2 qs and a couple autos effortlessly.

Aazzlano3 votes

sounds like a lot of effort

IxtaliKing2 votes

Vistha you know I agree with you lol, I'm going by what Rioters have said though. Imo they ruined Karma mid when they removed the damage components from her mantra.

BLYAT moon Akali1 votes

w guarantees burned flashes in ganks and R can be pretty much anything.

JavelinJoe1 votes

She is a support

Astôlfo1 votes

Meanwhile, Taliyah item 3070

ofart1 votes

don't judge small sample sizes

IxtaliKing1 votes

Yes I know, I realised after.

Sohleks1 votes

Ehhh she's still one annoying as heck lane powerhouse, but the other day I played a Karma mid game to late and got reminded of her fallacies.

We did win the game through snowballing pressure; inhibs, eventually triple inhibs, a couple barons, and an elder dragon 3 or 4? We still had to backdoor though. At a certain point we weren't able to win a teamfight at all. As Karma mid I kinda diverted all my farm to my ADC, our Olaf and Fiora who were playing great. The enemy team was running a really strong frontline (Darius) a backline that was really far away (Caitlyn), and I was vs. Lissandra mid who was an absolute bomb /assassin in fights. Vs. that kind of formation it's impossible to land mantra Q's on meaningful targets.

Anyways it was very hard for me as Karma to land meaningful damage or peel meaningfully in those very intense cutting edge late game teamfights.

Karma has a strange way of claiming sleeper because of her early prowess. But then always strangely drops out of the meta so suddenly. Perhaps after a dramatic failure. I remember the time Bjergson got a penta on Karma mid in the LCS years ago but lost the game.

It's fair to say that the sustain tanks like Swain are kicking her out though. She would be pretty not great against that. Karma would excel against a team of full squishies. But so could many things. And those teamcomps are just plain bad in season 6. And probably will always be now, until tank items are nerfed across the board, or we get something back as busted as old LW.

IxtaliKing1 votes

Well, if Riot actually listened to us they'd stop buffing her utility with numbers and give back some damage options.

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