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@Riot When you get to Karma...

IxtaliKing·8/1/2017, 12:55:08 AM·38 votes·2,024 views

... Please don't just buff her.

A couple weeks ago Meddler commented that there was good odds Karma would be receiving some small work at some point. While this is isn't definite as per the disclaimer on his "Quick Gameplay Thoughts" posts, I feel moved to raise a few points about her current state.

Objectively speaking, although I absolutely hated the direction taken with her; Karma has been the strongest and most popular she's ever been over the past year. Being a dominant pick in pro play and solo Q for much of that time. She was strong because she was buffed somewhere she shouldn't have been (RE), and she was strong because of her synergy with certain items... That's the problem.

Karma has never been allowed to have her own play space. Rather than have her unique abilities (clothesline tether/shield bomb) updated and improved, they were unceremoniously removed from her and replaced with generic, flavourless abilities. Abilities which are either overbearing or underwhelming. Had Karma's ally tether concept and shield bomb been preserved, she probably would have found her place in the game as the fighter's support.

As it currently stands, Karma is the 2nd worst overall performing mid laner in the game (recently overtaken by Ryze). This wouldn't be problem if weren't for the fact that Karma was originally made for both solo and duo lanes, and then reworked with solo laning in mind, but she was. We know that she's in this state because so much emphasis was placed on her utility for the support role, which was nerfed.

If you do decide to look at Karma again please consider addressing the following issues:

  • Give back her Mantra damage components. The removal of her damage components caused more problems than they solved, and was the 1st step towards booting her out of mid lane. All of her Mantras should be equally viable wherever she's being played, when her Mantras all gave damage it made people think more about the way they used them.

  • Give RW an ally function. Does it really make sense for an Enchanter to have a self heal? Let her give this heal to an ally, and perhaps take this opportunity to reintroduce her tether clothesline mechanic. If you want to give something to support Karma, this should be it. Not AoE super shields that could make even Janna jealous.

  • Give RW a flat heal. Does it really make sense for an AP scaling mage/Support to have her heal scale better with effective HP than AP? Let her have flat heal with an AP ratio which increases with missing hp.

  • Give back her W ticks. Let's just address tank Karma directly by changing how the heal scales, having more ticks on W encourages Karma to be the fight more to refresh her Mantra. No more poke and run Karma, more battlemage Karma.

  • Focus her power. Does Karma really need more than a 1.5s root? This root only exists in her kit for the sake of RQ anyway. Let her have a 1.5s root at all ranks, lockdown was never an intended strength for Karma, so this 3.25s potential root at level 16 is unnecessary and wasteful of her power budget.

  • Revert her passive buff. If we can get back her damage components, there would be no need for anything more than a 2s refund on her Mantra for hitting spells. Personally I believe it would be better if Karma had to commit to a fight more for additional Mantra uses, and encourage more skillful/tactical play.

  • Make RQ ground targeted. It just makes so much more sense than her current artillery style cast paradigm. This spell shouldn't be easier to land at max range than it is at closer ranges, but it is. This is one of the things that makes taking her mid irritating, you can set a perfect snare for your RQ... then a minion will decide to double back and eat your RQ... all your damage, gone. Making RQ ground targeted could finally give her decent wave clear at the cost of her Mantra, she could place it where she wants instead of having to search for angles to wave clear.

  • Lower her early damage. If she gets her damage options back, they'll be no need to have all of her damage crammed into RQ from level 1. Perhaps lower her early base damage in exchange for a better late game?

TL/DR: Basically instead of just buffing Karma to continue in this same Janna/Lulu play space, power shift her back into more of a battlemage. There are no other Enchanter style Battlemages in the game, let Karma own it.

32 Comments

TheUltimateSpear8/1/2017, 5:27:07 AM14 votes

I say bring back the shield bomb. Changing her Mantra E to additional shield power was the worst thing Riot ever did to Karma and she's been a balancing issue since. Additionally, it pushes her way to hard into the pure support space instead of the primary mage with support attribute she was supposed to be.

Rıots Bad Client8/1/2017, 3:43:23 PM10 votes

make her have a clear theme.

ZapMyHeart8/1/2017, 1:09:01 AM4 votes

She needs a real passive. Move the current one onto her R as an Innate.

Shift power from RE to RQ and RW. Make RE a single target only, while adding back shield bomb.

TwitchInMyPants8/1/2017, 10:16:33 AM4 votes

TBH I think if she gets a slightly weaker version of the old shield bomb back and her W gets some form of rework, she'd be in a good spot. I think healing is a cool idea but possibly OP(Shield/heal meta, her E is already massive), though what if it was speed and the tether line between you and your ally was able to apply a smaller amount of the root? I liked old Karma being able to run fast with your ally, its a slightly unique version of Zilean E, though adding another unique element to that idea would make it pretty interactive.

PokladnicaZla8/1/2017, 9:17:01 AM3 votes

I had a crazy idea for her passive.

What if we reduce her R+ability overall power,but make her passive ˝Gathering flame˝ also an ultimate? It would work like a secondary resource bar. Hitting enemies and buffing allies fuels her bar.Once it's filled she can cast her ultimate freely without wasting a stack of Mantra. If she stops buffing/attacking her sec.resource stops filling,but after 6 sec out combat it starts filling slowly.

Ionian Vulpix8/1/2017, 4:11:21 PM2 votes

I can't agree with making her RQ ground targeted. It's be good for Mid Karma, but incredibly strong for Support Karma. Standing behind minions is one of the few ways to dodge her poke currently. Getting rid of that, especially on something that really does a lot of damage, would remove most of the counterplay other than just not being anywhere near her range.

SilverSquid8/1/2017, 5:07:03 PM2 votes

On point, my friend. This is a good summary of her issues in readable bites. I like it!

An Enemy Sutando8/2/2017, 2:27:44 PM2 votes

On an unrelated note

GIVE HER BACK HER FANS

Yuyiyo8/1/2017, 7:18:12 PM1 votes

Think about the condition of battle mages. In theory, they would prefer extended combat to make use of their lower cooldowns and higher defensive abilities, unlike burst mages which prefer quick combat to get their rotation out and leave.

Thus, having karma be a unique battle mage that works better in the extended kiting encounters in top lane but being ineffective in midlane is understandable. It's a niche.

I personally feel she is strong in top lane, a lane bully that then transitions into a sort of battle-mage support in the mid and late game. I prefer supporting that unique niche rather than buff AP midlane karma just because it preforms poorly in soloQ. I like that we have a battle mage that can build AP-ish or bruiser-ish or support and all ways are mostly valid.

And an issue I do agree with is the lack of choice with mantra. If you are playing top karma, RW is almost always used. Mid/Sup Karma, RQ in lane and RE in team fights.

My concepts for changes:

I think the Q is fine as is, Ryze has to move his Q around minions and he is fine, I don't think it needs to be ground targeted. Like, fizz's ult (ground-targeted, like you are suggesting) feels really clunky to use while Karma's Q and whole kit feels smooth really. So I don't like that change. I don't think it really needs to be changed or buffed, I think its a super powerful ability personally. I think it is her tether and shield that needs changes.

Maybe her W could be like Lulu and be able to work on allies and enemies. Enemies for a single-target snare, allies for the unique tether concept. Personally, I wish they would add a very small heal on her non-mantra W, that way the huge heal on RW would make sense for an empowered ability rather than just... being there. Also, adding like a 1% max health per 50 AP ratio on the RW heal would be nice, has the AP buff you are looking for while maintaining low-AP builds of Karma. I am not fond of a flat heal at all, that would just force Karma to build AP rather than encouraging Karma to build AP like her kit does now. Killing a whole build path of Karma is lame. Just reduce the heal to like 18% rather than 20% so tank karma isn't too strong.

Her shield is sort of boring, the movement speed is great but the shield is lackluster. I agree with a cool shield bomb, but I would prefer if it still gave a movement speed boost to nearby allies but not the shields. That way she can still be used for cool engages with the movement speed but can still have a shield bomb. Also, I think being struck by the shield bomb should slow the enemy temporarily in addition to dealing damage.

I NEED HEALlNG8/2/2017, 3:21:26 AM1 votes

I actually think they should buff her, BUT nerf her survive ability.

LOSINGISMYPRIDE8/1/2017, 1:55:01 AM1 votes

karma mid is actually really good and she got really good roam potential while keeping alive your ally or helping your jungle to do crazy stuff without popping their flash or whatever .

REDREX78/4/2017, 4:06:03 PM1 votes

In my opinion Karma needs only a little bit of things to make her rewarding, and good in both solo queue and competitive. Her passive is really good and should stay. These passives are overlooked by most players but this passive is what makes Karma so good.Mantra Q is already a good ability and does not need changes. In my opinion W and E are the only things holding karma back.

W ap ratio lowered to .7. NEW EFFECT- successful roots now causes Karma's next basic attack to deal bonus magic damage flat damage plus .15 ap ratio. Karma can also shield her ally to grant their next auto attack to deal bonus magic damage as well.Note Karma's bonus magic damage auto attack counts as an ability for her passive (this makes up for losing a tick) Mantra W the root damage is increased by .3 ap and auto attack ap ratio by .15. (I for one never understand why Karma was never given a damaging auto attack when her kit makes much more sense to have one unlike lux and orianna. and now Karma becomes more enchanter like)

E ap ratio shield value lowered to .4 New Effect shield bomb damage happens every time now but takes 2 seconds to charge up and deal Area of Effect damage .4 ap ratio. Mantra E both shield and damage values are increased by .4 ap ratio and now the closes enemy champion near her shielded target is knocked back. Also Mantra E damage is now instant and not delayed.