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FLAWS WITH POINT SYSTEM/"Elo Hell" corraletion (Any reds around?)

DrNova··1 votes·925 views

The point system is seriously flawed at lower levels, and I think highly responsible for the "Elo hell", to use the term loosely.

Its well known that there are a lot of bad players down in bronze, but there are also a lot of competent players such as my self who dont deserve to be stuck down with the riffraff, but simply cant get out because of poor teams (afk's and trolls are a significant enough part of the problem too)

But the point system in Inherently against players at bronze level. For example I get 12 and 14 points for wins, but then a loss I lose 21 points, in a game where I was the only player not to feed, held my lane long as possible before others collapsed into it. I literally was the only player who wasn't awful in this match, yet still I get slammed a ridiculous 21 points, which is a severe drop.

Another example I get to my promo's, and got screwed with two bad teams, one of them laughably so. I did well as possible given the circumstances, but it was out of my hands. And It drops me to 61 points. Seriously? Now I have to do a ton of work just to get back to promo's, then go through the dread of the matchmaking system and hope I get at least two decent teams, which the odds are against me for.

The point system at lower "elo's" needs to be less harsh, so that those of us who truly are not "permabronze bad" have a chance to climb out even with the odds stacked against us as far as matchmaking.

Have play in match correlate with point gains/reductions. If you do well in a match, you should get better point rewards, and lower point losses. KDA, how early your first few deaths were, possibly CS (i dont know about this one), should affect your point totals, be it positive or negative.

Truly bad players will still be stuck where they belong, but players who are good but hampered by the matchmaking can still make their way out of bronze.

9 Comments

Sailor Mint2 votes

You are an ~800MMR player (Silver V is ~1250), you are getting negative LP gains because your MMR is lower than your current division's. The system is trying to push you back down to your true MMR (Bronze V).

I'm sorry but the system is working as intended. If you are truly a Silver player trapped in Bronze, show it by carrying games without relying on your teammates carrying you.

DrNova2 votes

Please dont post garbage like this here. For one, the same old recyecled garbage about "then carry your team". Anyone with half a wit in their head realizes this isnt always and is often impossible, depending on your role, how badly the rest of your team is doing, if you have trolls or afk's.

Go be an ass and spout useless gibberish somewhere else.

Ryster1 votes

Although Devi did use some harsh terms, his/her logic on why you lose more LP than you gain is true. The system thinks you belong lower in the rankings, since you may not have won that many games, it thinks you aren't as good as where you are. To counteract that, you just need to win more than you lose and you will see your LP gains shift in your favor.

Now, looking at your match history, some advice I can give you would be that you seem to like to fight a lot, you have a high amount kills/deaths/assists and your cs seems to be lacking after the 15-20 min mark. In between fights, you need to make sure you get some cs, no matter how late into the game it is, if you aren't full build yet, you need to be CSing. Your CS is better than what I expect in bronze, but I can't evaluate how well you play other than my assumptions of your match history.

Another thing I suggest getting in the habit of is if you ever win a fight, (meaning your team came out with more kills than deaths) make sure you get objectives with that time! Kills don't win games, objectives do.

Yes sometimes you will get teams you can't carry, I know it sucks, but you don't need to win every game, only 51% of them at least. Keep up that win ratio and you will, slowly, rise in the ranks. The higher that percentage obviously, the faster it will take.

Hope I helped a little. Good luck!

Sailor Mint2 votes

Please dont post garbage like this here. For one, the same old recyecled garbage about "then carry your team". Anyone with half a wit in their head realizes this isnt always and is often impossible, depending on your role, how badly the rest of your team is doing, if you have trolls or afk's.

Go be an ass and spout useless gibberish somewhere else.

Well, look at it this way, you can either curse your fate or make your own destiny.

Don't expect anything from your teammates. Focus on what you can affect on: your play.

  • You die a lot.
  • For some reason, you rarely purchase Zhonya's.
  • Your cs average, even pre-20 minutes is fairly low (< 5 cs/min).
  • You buy Sight Wards (Good), but seem to forget to place them/use your trinket.
  • Pink Wards are amazing but you don't seem to ever buy them.
  • There's a couple questionable item choices (i.e.: Hurricane on Twitch, FMallet Riven).

If you can maintain a 50% win rate on Xerath, you should be able do better on a more carry oriented mid laner. You might want to review the reasoning behind some of your purchases and back them up with some research.

DrNova1 votes

I dont know where you got the CD stat, but I know for a fact its over 5 a min. Outside of the rare picks when I just get countered hard and cant really do much, my cs always ends up at the very least on par with the high averages in a game.

Zhonya's I usually avoid because On champs I'd take it on, I want to stay out of that kind of range or situations where I'd need it. Granted I can see the flaw in that line of reasoning.

Items, I am not completely "pro" in. I dont have every full optimal build memorize. I usually have a few core and then fill with whatever seems like it might help best given a situation. FMallet on riven I would take for the health and the slow. Maybe not optimal because she's pretty sticky anyways I suppose. But not worthless. Hurricane just seem slike its useful, waveclear potential and attack speed is always nice. Again, maybe not optimal but usefull. Although I am not an expert on itemization, I have solid core's on my mainly used champs, and I dont feel I ever buy foolish things. I could optimize im sure, but I wouldnt consider my picks bad.

I dont know where you got that I forget to place wards, I use them pretty often. If I'm not near somewhere I think worth dropping it atm I might hold onto it for a moment till I'm in a better place. But I dont bogart my wards. And I dont know why I never use pink.

As far as dying alot, yeah. But a good deal of the time I start out several kills or assists positive, then someone somewhere (or multiple) feed hard, and perhaps I try to hard to force a turnaround. But alot of the time thats after a game is pretty much trashed anyways.

I get alot of the points your making, but I feel like your completely ignoring the fact that you NEED your teamates. I apologize for the flare in temper, but I am honestly tired of hearing "then carry your team". Because its not so simple as that, and not always possible. A bad team will drag you down faster then a good player will pick your team up. One guy doing well against 2 or even 3 people playing pisspoor, its just above most comebacks. Hence my point, I get screwed often by the system and dont have the OPPORTUNITY to get into a better win streak to earn more points. Its out of my hands alot of the time. I feel like high level players forget what its like down lower in regards to teamates, just because up higher there is a WHOLE different average player.

Sailor Mint2 votes

I dont know where you got the CD stat, but I know for a fact its over 5 a min. Outside of the rare picks when I just get countered hard and cant really do much, my cs always ends up at the very least on par with the high averages in a game.

You can see your cs stats here: http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=DrNova There's a minimum of 12 cs per minute. You should be striving for a 75%+ cs average (9+/min) and slowly decay towards 50% (6cs/min) as the game progresses.

Items, I am not completely "pro" in. I dont have every full optimal build memorize.

Obviously you have a reasoning for building certain items on certain champions. All I'm saying is you should probably do the opposite and ask yourself stuff like "Why does Sneaky go Bork/Ghostblade/IE/LW on Twitch?" Optimization can go a long way, especially on ADCs. Anyway, it's less about memorizing builds and more about understanding when items are good.

I dont know where you got that I forget to place wards, I use them pretty often. If I'm not near somewhere I think worth dropping it atm I might hold onto it for a moment till I'm in a better place. But I dont bogart my wards. And I dont know why I never use pink.

Match history shows how many wards you've placed. Game duration / 2 min = Number of trinket wards you could have placed. You should try to aim for ~75% (you are currently around 30%).

As far as dying alot, yeah. But a good deal of the time I start out several kills or assists positive, then someone somewhere (or multiple) feed hard, and perhaps I try to hard to force a turnaround.

Most important thing is making sure fights happen near objectives. Dying for 3 kills without being able to convert it into a tower or dragon is nearly useless. Not dying as an ADC also helps taking objectives.

I get alot of the points your making, but I feel like your completely ignoring the fact that you NEED your teamates. I apologize for the flare in temper, but I am honestly tired of hearing "then carry your team".

If you're better than your opponents, you should be able to get fed. Teammates are more likely to listen to you when you are fed. In short, if you have some understanding of how to play the map and are fed you can micromanage your teammates into helping you win the game.

To be honest, I wouldn't play Xerath or any champion that require any kind of finesse in bronze. I'd just spam Fizz or any snowbally mid laners. If taking turrets is an issue, have you considered playing Cait?

You can't fix everything overnight. Focus on one thing at a time (I suggest cs and pink wards as a start). Having more money than your lane opponent goes a long way.

DrNova1 votes

While I am very competitive and want to win, and especially improve my own "rank", I also want to have fun, and for me part of that is not just playing the easiest wins champ's. I find some enjoyment out of playing champs that arent used as often or arent the "main" champs for a position. If Im just following the cookie cutter I'm just playing everyone elses game, which is less enjoyable.

Fried Noob1 votes

While it is true that the points system can be frustrating, you will eventually climb if you are better than the elo you are in. It just takes longer if you are only slightly better. Also, if you are actually better (as in the system recognizes you are placed too low) the LP you gain per win will be greater than the LP you lose.

You encounter bad players, AFK's, and trolls all along the ladder, and yet people manage to climb because they are consistently better than those who are lower on the ladder. As long as you play well, you will climb.

HexSeal1 votes

Think about it this way. There is as likely a chance of you getting an afk on your team as well as on the other team. But, if you don't troll/feed/be useless, there is a 4:5 ratio of someone on the other team trolling/feeding/being useless. Also your mmr gains/loses are based off of your mmr so if you lose more than you win that means you are meant to be in a lower rank. No wonder you can't carry, the other team is above your rank. When you drop try to get better there.

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