Boards›Gameplay

"Kayn is Camille all over again"

Malicious Metal·Jun 28, 2017·100 votes·11,158 views

No.

Wanna know why? Because for him to deal damage he actually has to invest in a lot of BONUS ad.

Also, I see people going on about how he gets "Free" % max Hp damage when in fact going for Rhaast makes you LOSE the FLAT DAMAGE from your primary damage tool.

Reaper's Slash instead deals a % of the Target's maximum health, and it scales off bonus ad as well, having a pretty low base as well. Similarly, his R has a % max hp scaling and only starts off at 10%. TEN. Without any AD he won't be dealing a lot of damage.

And the most important factor why Kayn won't be like Camille is that when he goes for Rhaast he won't be a huge threat to Squishy enemies.

Rhaast thrives off fighting tanky enemies as he has a lot of tools to survive fighting in the enemy frontline, yet he falls short when it comes to assassinating squshies because he lacks the damage and tools for the job.

In fact, he has to choose which path he'll go down, because each of these forms has clearly defined weaknesses and strengths and he can't change that once he transformed.

And the most important fact of all; He hasn't even been released yet! He's on the PBE, wait for him to hit the live servers before making any assumptions about his balance state.

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/33414967/kayn.gif https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-j8HmNzY48Z0/WVNCHfLWz3I/AAAAAAABERY/WchjS5ib98U_appSJHzA24Oy5d6KQlScQCLcBGAs/s1600/PBE%2BBlasterKayn_Slay_Square.png
#I'm outta here!

109 Comments

RexxieeJun 28, 201719 votes

Ppl defended release camille too btw.

RalanrJun 28, 20176 votes

Good thing he hasn't actually been released yet or else you'd have an argument. Still on the PBE.

Velzard of KozJun 28, 201732 votes

Yes it's all "Don't complain before it's released it's not like you can use past experience and brain", but you don't see then Boards flooded with "Told ya bitches" posts.

sirwaterflesJun 28, 20178 votes

They defended her after release to. I still recall how it was only low elo that was bad and just didnt know how to play against her and how she had such clear and exploitable weaknesses and then went on to be pick/ban in the lcs for untill mutiple nerfes followed. Now im not judging yet (about his gameplay but he is already an edgelord) since i to believe that i have to play with/against it before i can do that but it not having clear weaknesses in the video(which i think was rushed) and so many strenghts and the history of problems with dual/shapeshifting champions i am worried so i think defending him before he actually gets released on the same lvl as badmouthing him.

Eternal791Jun 28, 20174 votes

Yeah, while Camille definitely was OP on release, she wasn't as bad as most people thought; especially after like two nerfs when she was in a perfect place in my opinion (haven't played her in 7.13 yet with buff though). Kayn on the other hand, I am kinda worried about. The very nature of his kit seems prone to being OP, though I'll wait till I've played as and against him to come to a conclusion.

RathamorJul 4, 20171 votes

The thing is Kayn's release is really early so there won't be many changes done to him at all. Riot is lazy and the champ will be lazy too.

Rito StaffJun 28, 20179 votes

"Kayn is Camille all over again" -- as if Camille was the first example of a OP release nerf to gutter champion.

RalanrJun 29, 20171 votes

Win Nhao.

OHminusJun 29, 20178 votes

Kayn IS Camille all over again

Edgy McEdgeface with edgy lines, T H I C C body, lord of edge

I mean, with Riot these days, new champs are made either by smoking weed (Ivern,Bard), letting out their 13 year old E D GE L O R D self (Camille, Xayah,) or a combination of the two (Kled, Jhin)

Meep ManJun 28, 20176 votes

I can't wait to build Red and Green Build Rhaast: item 3071 item 3072 item 3812 item 3065 item 1412 item 3047

AirKingNeoJun 28, 201717 votes

Why would you build BT? You never auto attack to proc lifesteal that much. Get a Sterak's Gage.

MuzétJun 28, 20173 votes

Sterak? Ugh Base AD. I'd prefer to go Maw or GA.

ZerenzaJun 28, 20173 votes

Yeah i'd probably take out the BT for GA as well, or if i were playing top i'd take out warrior enchant for GA and get hydra instead.

AirKingNeoJun 28, 20172 votes

His Q scales with base AD in Darkin form.

MuzétJun 28, 20171 votes

Pretty sure he doesn't. He's a full bonus ad one.

AirKingNeoJun 28, 20174 votes

Darkin "...Both dash and strike deal 50% Total AD physical damage + [5% + (4% per 100 bonus AD)] of the target's maximum health (max 200 vs monsters). Deals 70 bonus physical damage to monsters."

Source: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/06/627-pbe-update.html

Malicious MetalJun 28, 201710 votes

Hydra is better IMO^^

GULAG 4 UJun 29, 20176 votes

I feel like malicious metal is going to become a rhaast main.

TBH death's dance on rhaast will very likely be a huge issue IMO.

Auz the RipperJun 29, 20171 votes

The only dangerous synergy I see is with his ult, all the other abilities are AoE and have reduced healing from DD. The bleed passive may be a problem too but he doesn't look like he can do riven's or fiora's stupid lifesteal builds as effectively as they can

GULAG 4 UJun 30, 20171 votes

Good point, completely forgot dd heals less for AOE. It doesn't looks that bad after all.

Kai GuyJun 30, 20171 votes

I don't know, I think the passive bleed keeps in in combat longer which reduces his ability to use E for escapes.

Karn BishopJun 28, 20175 votes

You forgot something, he also has rather substancial cool downs and large mana costs to boot, so he can't just use ability's knowing they'll all be up again in 4 seconds.

AirKingNeoJun 28, 20175 votes

His Q cooldown is like nothing. His W is eh. His E needs to be raised by like 7.

Karn BishopJun 28, 20178 votes

He has reasonable CD's and decently high mana costs, his ability's all have an initial high CD compared to most other champs except for his bread and butter skill of Q, which is an unfair thing to use as an argument to prove me wrong given that the bread and butter skill for ANY champion tends to have low CD such as Nasus Evelynn DrMundo Katarina Kindred Shyvana Riven Trundle XinZhao ect ect ect. so please don't use that its disrespectful to both yourself and me.

Reaping Slash (Q):

Mana: 50
Cooldown: 7/6.5/6/5.5/5

Blade's Reach (W):

Mana: 60/65/70/75/80
Cooldown: 13/12/11/10/9

Shadow Step (E):

Mana: 90
Cooldown: 21/19/17/15/13

Umbral Trespass (R):

Mana: 100
Cooldown: 120/100/80

AirKingNeoJun 28, 20173 votes

His E cooldown is way to low. Aurelion Sol has more than double that cooldown and Warwick has triple it (though it goes off cooldown faster with it's mechanic).

Not saying his Q or W need nerfs, but they're decently low enough for him to be viable. If he Q ever needed to be nerfed, add more CD and less damage, then tied reducing the CD to the Darkin Mode and increasing base damage to his Assassin Mode.

PunisherJBYJun 28, 20175 votes

The 2 examples you used are for greatly increased movement speed which isn't exactly the same thing. The argument I have seen that makes sense, at least, is that he should be like Talon where he cant keep going through the same walls. However with talon his cd is very low as a skill but the terrain's is high. Also my understanding is his E lasts less time if he is in combat so its not something that will let him escape to far (hopefully just lets him go through 2 things at most if in combat).

Glory ln DeathJun 28, 20172 votes

1.5 seconds while in combat, no increase. 1.5 seconds out of combat, increased to 5 seconds the first time he enters a wall. Hard CC immediately ends the effect.

THE RlVER KlNGJun 28, 20172 votes

That ult CD is absurdly low compared to other champions lmao are you kidding?

And you're telling me a base 5 second CD damaging dash isn't problematic either.

Karn BishopJun 28, 20176 votes

Given that he is a melee hyper carry jungle like yi? not really.

MLDzXnRRRJun 30, 20171 votes

Hyper carry? He looks like a good ganker, but hyper carry?

Karn BishopJun 30, 20171 votes

Shrugs a rioter used that phrasing before he was announced officially, "we want to create a more hypercarry like jungle this time around now that we got the weird stuff like Ivern (were sorry) out of the way." and no they didn't apologize for ivern though i'd like to think they did, and this is not word by word wording as i don't have the time to find that red comment.

So yes he is meant to be a bit more carry like, though he honestly seems like a hybrid to me or what i would call a situational carry, he is good sometimes but not always.

Milodic MellodiJun 28, 20175 votes

He'll only be Camille all over again because everyone will bandwagon and make it out to be so.

RalanrJun 28, 20172 votes

That's Rhaast though, what about the Shadow Assassin form?

Malicious MetalJun 28, 201717 votes

If Kayn goes for the Shadow Assassin route he won't have access to Darkin form's Knockup and overall survivability with the innate Life steal Rhaast gets.

He'll play more like Zed as he'll suck against tanky opponents but he'll be great at assassinating squishies. He gives up a ton of utility and durability in favor of being able to eliminate high priority targets.

Fondling GemsJun 28, 201719 votes

Gonna throw a quick correction in, he gets spell vamp, not lifesteal.

Malicious MetalJun 28, 20172 votes

Are you sure? Because when I played him I had 50% life steal, as well as 60% physical vamp :^) ( item 3812 item 3072 item 3065 try this, it's stupid but glorious)

Fondling GemsJun 28, 20176 votes

Yup, I was playing without any lifesteal and it was only on ability damage, not auto attacks. It even reads that way. Sure you weren't running lifesteal runes/masteries?

Synnx7Jun 29, 20171 votes

I wonder in season 8 or 9 , right clicking once as an adc at lv 2-3 means insta kill right? For how much you're gonna boost the dmg creep

Fondling GemsJun 29, 20173 votes

Hey don't be grouping me in with the balance team, though considering the Taric buffs on PBE I can understand the mistake ;P

I am just a boards moderator, not even a Rioter one at that.

RalanrJun 28, 20172 votes

My only grip is that depending on the enemy comp, he actually isn't giving up much because he'll be harvesting the most common of the comp.

How often do both choices present themselves? Or does a choice only present itself when you have farmed enough for that choice?

PennsJun 28, 20171 votes

His passive is weird af since both soul-types only fill up a single bar.

Not 100% sure how that works yet either but I know that, after a 4 minute timer, you can transform into both forms. So even against a full ranged team, you just need to fill up the bar and then wait 4 minutes, then you can transform into the Darkin as well.

RalanrJun 28, 20171 votes

Huh...that's really weird.

Goodnight NunuJun 28, 20171 votes

No, it allows you to still chose the other form even when the enemy's either all ranged or all melee (like that ever happens.)

RalanrJun 28, 20171 votes

Yeah, that's what I find weird because I thought your choice depended on how much ranged or melee champions you farmed up compared to the other.

Glory ln DeathJun 28, 20175 votes

It does - it initially gives you only one choice, based on which type you've killed the most, but you can choose not to transform for 4 minutes, after which you may transform into the other one.

Kai GuyJun 30, 20172 votes

I know this is probably just an oversight on your part, but its damaged the most, not killed. Red and blue orbs drop from just damage kills are not required to trigger his transformation.

The Yetii RiderJun 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No, it allows you to still chose the other form even when the enemy's either all ranged or all melee (like that ever happens.)

Gnar Graves Ahri Thresh Caitlyn

RalanrJun 29, 20172 votes

Kayn: I'm confused. Rhaast: Well that makes two of us.

Hay5eedJun 29, 20172 votes

At the current state he is too strong. He can level 1 raptors quick enough for him to also receive leash for red buff. Not saying that he is broken however because he kinda isn't.

His infect is just a glorified Zed ultimate and his wall walk is nothing new, Zac can do the same thing

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