Re-adding DFG - but ONLY vs tanks

Sniperkaj··1 votes·584 views

i think it is a little over the top, when a very fed mage cant kill a "normal" Mundo at all. So my suggestion is:

Deathfire Grasp re-added

3400 g 100 AP UNIQUE active: for 15 seconds:

  • deal 1 % extra damage for every 50 max HP difference, capping at 1000 HP (20 % increased damage) to target enemy
  • ignore 45 % of targets BONUS Magic Resist for 15 seconds

> This item would not make a 10k gold mage kill a 10k gold full tank by any means. If you gor example go DFG after morello/Deathcap, you sacrifice Void staff, which give a large boost in damage vcs everyone. DFG should basically be an item you can buy when you are very fed as an APC, so you acutally can kill the enemy tank - and you would sacrifice another AP item, for example Ludens (extra AOE) and Rylais (utility).

The reason behind this: I was a fed Syndra, 11 kills at 20 minutes. I got solokilled by a full HP mundo, and i hit him with 2 balls, a W, my stun (E), and a 5 or 6 balls ulti, and anither ball before i died. The mundo had 4-2 and 50 less farm, and like 5 towers down. I think when i did so well, i should be able to 1v1 a not very fed mundo. The only thing i lacked was Ignite (just used it), and he survived with 25 % HP, so i might barely have killed him. But still, i think the difficutly to deal with tanks are a litte OTT right now.

11 Comments

ModWulf Helhammer3 votes

Mages. Aren't Supposed. To. Fight. Tanks.

Or at the very least, with a tank and a mage at equal gold and items, the mage should not be able to kill the tank without unloading their combo multiple times. Mages > ADC > Tank > Mage (or in other terms: Burst > Sustained damage > Tank > Burst). That's how it works, and how it's supposed to work

Sniperkaj1 votes

But if my ADC sucks (30 farm 15 mins, im not lying), i am 10-0 and they have a for example 2-2 tank? He just goes for me, and kills me while i try to kill 1 or 2 squishies. I think it would be nice to at least have it possible to kill the enemy tank if you are far ahead, and if your ADC is bonkers.

Cherysse1 votes

I like this a lot, but I think it would be a good system to actually make it an upgrade for Void Staff and use the Last Whisper treatment over Void.

BluePolarizer1 votes

Mages aren't meant to fight tanks with equal gold, especially not burst mages. The only mages that should be fighting tanks are sustained damage mages Karthus Azir Kayle Cassiopeia who have no problems shredding tanks or entire teams. Mages are optimized for fighting squishies.

Not every champ when fed can fight any other champ. A 6 item Darius (assuming no ghostblade or righteous glory) still can't beat a Vayne with a PD, zeal and boots.

Sniperkaj1 votes

Equal in gold, a burst mage still wouldnt be able to fight a tank with this item (is this the case, nerf it). I talk about if a burst mage has +3.4k gold, then he can buy DFG to deal with the enemy tank. He has already proven himself better.

And for ur Darius example: A Darius can win unless Vayne outplays him constantly, and if she does so, it is fine to me. Likewise, if u were marked by DFG as a tank, you can still dogde the skillshots to outplay the mage. In my example with Syndra vs Mundo, my problem was i had 3-4k gold advantage, hit ALL my skillshots and STILL was a fair bit away from killing him. Its fine Mundo counters Syndra, but given a large enough lead anybody should be able to beat their counter. I feel the "large enough" is too big in this case

BluePolarizer1 votes

You should never account for mechanical outplays as decision for whether something is balanced or not because then the game will be imbalanced for high elo. A bronze Darius might be able to beat a brozne Vayne but a challenger Darius will never be able to 1v1 a challenger Vayne.

For example: I just recently discovered that Hecarim cannot 1v1 Rammus when both are 6 slotted even with item 3036 . Does this mean that Rammus is extremely OP, or do I accept that Hecarim has strengths and weaknesses, and one of those strengths does not include 1v1ing other tanky champs?

Sniperkaj1 votes

See, your example invovles 6 vs 6 items. What i want, is an item that makes me able to 1v1 a tank if, and only if i am 3.4k gold ahead by midgame (20-25 mins). I think, if you itemize correctly, and at the same time dont get outplayed by your opponent, you should always be able to 1v1 if ahead by that amount of gold at that time.

BluePolarizer1 votes

A 5 item Hecarim still can't effectively kill a 4 item Rammus (which is what it'll be for 3.4k gold ahead).

Sniperkaj1 votes

But 2 vs 3 items? This was the situation i was in :) you also have to look at relative difference sometimes ;)

Posui Gart1 votes

First, mages counter marksmen, marksmen counter tanks and tanks counter mages, thats basically it with some exceptions(like rammus or brand) Second, did you have morello at that time? Third, your fed Syndra could kill 2 enemies with all that spells while moving and dodging Mundo's Q so he can't get close Fourth, your item would make itemisation against enemy mage useless. What if you are a tank and enemy has that fed Syndra/LB/Brand with that item, what should you do?

Sniperkaj1 votes

I had Morello/Raba/Balsting Wand/MPen boots, and got beaten by Cinderhulk/Spirit Visage (+some raw armor). They did surrender 1 minute after. I was about 11.5k vs 8.5k gold, where he had put over 1k gold into armor. I feel i should be able to buy an item, that makes Mundo think twice about just running headless after me. To kill me with such an item 1v1 (remember, he is still 3k gold down!), he WOULD have to juke my stun, and maybe 1 or 2 Qs. As it is now, i just felt i made a very good kiting play, while already playing well to get fed, but still die. I dont like that.

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