Boards›Gameplay

The Contradiction of Current ADCs

ZER0 2··6 votes·1,506 views

PhyLoL just put out a great video regarding the QSS change and I agree with it and thought maybe some of you would too. His points basically are this:

 * Adcs are supposed to do two things 1. Survive 2. Deal Damage/Shred Tanks. 

 This is a problem because currently we don't (especially the immobile Adc's) have any kind of survivability unless we build a GA. With Zed's and Fizz's coming at us and the QSS change, this is the only way we can try to live. However, if we build GA we fall behind the enemy Adc that DOESN'T have to build GA because they aren't facing a Zed or Fizz. So we're faced with a choice, we can build full damage and try to shred tanks before we get destroyed by Zed/Fizz (just using these two as examples btw, there are others), or we can build defensively and end up having a problem contributing to the team because we don't do enough damage.

 * Every other role has some kind of damage/defence item.
 Especially in the new mage update we have the hourglass and abyssal sceptre, both which do damage and help avoid getting bursted/utterly destroyed by champions like Zed/Fizz.

 * Because of how strong the changes have made champions like Zed, they're banned so much they're unplayable.
 Even now that Zed/Fizz have had an indirect buff because of the QSS changes, nobody gets to play them anyway because they're permabanned. So now the change is not only effecting Adc's because we can't build properly for the situation and fill the role we're supposed to, but also people don't get to play their champions because they're "too strong" and "permabanned". This is also upsetting for players because it completely rules out champions being played that were otherwise fine in the meta.

 * Make a compromise/some changes.
 In PhyLol's video, he talks about a possible change. I personally agree that QSS by itself was too strong and too cheap, we didn't have to rush Mercurial Scimitar because buying the QSS itself was enough so we'd wait until almost last item to finish it. The change purposed remedies this situation but also gives Adc's another way to fulfil their role properly, while spending more gold to do so. Keep the current changes to QSS ON QSS, but give us back the old active on Mercurial Scimitar. That way we're still spending 3000+ gold for the active, because that's all Adc's really built it for anyway, and we have to rush it 3-4 item for it to be effective mid/late game. Not only does this take Zed off the permaban list, but it also makes it a lot more fair for Adc's as well. Benefiting everybody in the end.

Even a Zed main commented on the change, saying it would be a good idea: "I'm so p*ssed by the QSS change really...I main zed and climbed to silver 3 from bronze 4 only playing him and now I cant play him anymore at ranked so I quit playing ranked because he is permabanned...and i agree with your idea Phy it was a really good suggestion if not perfect for both zed mains and Adc players alike."

Do with it what you will! =) Thanks for reading my thread!

-TheyCallMeJinx*[slayer-jinx-catface]*

@Riot

10 Comments

ModWulf Helhammer3 votes

The problem with making MS only have the old active is that is pushes it completely into the reign of ADs, which was never the intention of the item. What's the point of any other class picking up QSS if it isn't really going to do anything for them?

MS before the changes was one of the strongest items in the game, and was frequently completed -- you are confusing it with the last season MS. When they added lifesteal to the item, it became much more appealing, as it gave a good chunk of MR (to withstand AoE damage), lifesteal to sustain and recover, and (IMO) the second best active in the game (first is Zhonya's). The item was frankly a bit overloaded, and this is coming from an ADC main. The first step they made to fix this was reducing the MR on the item, and the second was refining what the active could counter, so that it fit more into what it really should be doing (saving from CC, and allowing ADCs to survive assassins via team play and positioning).

While ADCs are struggling to survive and do their jobs in this meta (nothing is more frustrating then being behind on an ADC and being instantly focused and destroyed every fight so that you can't ever recover, or as you said being the ADC that has to build the defensive or situational item, and you lose a lot of damage in recommence), just creating a "AD defensive" item could lead to even worse situations -- I take it no one wants to see a Zed, Talon, or hell, even Juggernauts, have an item that gives them strong defensive stats while also good damage, or least an additional one.

Geshultz2 votes

{quoted}

The problem with making MS only have the old active is that is pushes it completely into the reign of ADs, which was never the intention of the item. What's the point of any other class picking up QSS if it isn't really going to do anything for them?

MS before the changes was one of the strongest items in the game, and was frequently completed -- you are confusing it with the last season MS. When they added lifesteal to the item, it became much more appealing, as it gave a good chunk of MR (to withstand AoE damage), lifesteal to sustain and recover, and (IMO) the second best active in the game (first is Zhonya's). The item was frankly a bit overloaded, and this is coming from an ADC main. The first step they made to fix this was reducing the MR on the item, and the second was refining what the active could counter, so that it fit more into what it really should be doing (saving from CC, and allowing ADCs to survive assassins via team play and positioning).

While ADCs are struggling to survive and do their jobs in this meta (nothing is more frustrating then being behind on an ADC and being instantly focused and destroyed every fight so that you can't ever recover, or as you said being the ADC that has to build the defensive or situational item, and you lose a lot of damage in recommence), just creating a "AD defensive" item could lead to even worse situations -- I take it no one wants to see a Zed, Talon, or hell, even Juggernauts, have an item that gives them strong defensive stats while also good damage, or least an additional one.

I think a reasonable approach would be to create defensive/offensive mixed for ADCs based off of crit to keep other classes from abusing such items. Such as Essence reaver has crit that increaes the cooldown reduction of caster ADCs it would work well with activates et cetera.

Example of an item: 3700 gold cost

75 ad 10% Life steal 30 armor max with 50% crit 30 Mr max with 50% crit Plus activate shield that gives 100-200 hp shield+ 10% more shield per 10% crit for 3 seconds on a 90 second cooldown

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Hmm, that holds promise (although those numbers are seriously OP). It is typically the crit based, normal auto attacking based ADCs that are the squishy ones, where as the other AD builds tend to be more bruisery in nature, so you have tankiness there.

Geshultz1 votes

{quoted}

Hmm, that holds promise (although those numbers are seriously OP). It is typically the crit based, normal auto attacking based ADCs that are the squishy ones, where as the other AD builds tend to be more bruisery in nature, so you have tankiness there.

True the numbers are Op but using it as an example a real item would be more realistically 15 armor/mr at 50% crit then the active shield being around 50-200 scaling +10% increase on shield per 10% crit for 3 seconds on a 120-90 second cooldown

Drehirth2 votes

I agree, and also watch all phylol. But you can't post this here man, this place still thinks adc are op/riots favorites and tanks are weak (lmao)

ZER0 21 votes

It's worth a try. The worst people can do is disagree, which is fine. =)

Breadgehog2 votes

It's a shitty solution to a legitimate problem. QSS was a raw deal for both assassins and ADCs alike. The idea that you can remove Fizz or Zed's kill potential with a button press is patently ridiculous, and on the ADC end of things there's still no solution to other assassins. There needs to be ADC defensive options, but it needs to be general purpose and actually appealing.

ZER0 21 votes

Yeah it just sucks cause cause now adcs have a choice between two poor choices, OR a champion is constantly permabanned and nobody gets to play them anymore, which is shitty. But I agree, there needs to be some change somewhere, whether or not this is any kind of solution.

OurLestrade2 votes

Doesn't help that they've been making crowd control increasingly delayed or conditional, giving assassins even more of a chance to play around it. I can't play the new Taric for the life of me because of how telegraphed his E and ult are, and believe it or not a crummy 200 health shield isn't going to save your ADC from an assassin any time soon :P

ZER0 22 votes

Indeed! I'm glad you see the problem somewhat =D thanks for reading it haha

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by ZER0 2

Okay Riot, What The Hell.
Gameplay198 comments
259
votes
Riot has lowered the standards for Legendary Skins.
Story, Art, & Sound81 comments
108
votes
Hey, Thanks for Changing Eve to Full AP
Gameplay83 comments
78
votes
Thank you Riot. [A Good Death]
Story, Art, & Sound59 comments
71
votes
Can we talk about Aviator Irelia?
Story, Art, & Sound41 comments
59
votes
Dragon Sorceress ... That's Still Obsessed With Plants?
Story, Art, & Sound47 comments
41
votes