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eve the snowbally stealthed assassin..

rtbf76109271··71 votes·3,120 views

-that isn't stealthed for the most relevant part of a junglers game -with no pressure early so can't snowball -who does less damage than jungler tanks until 1.5 items -that gets low in jg with no sustain and is squishy in the first place -who has to declare 2.5 seconds beforehand, "I'm going to gank you" in all chat, removing the surprise benefit from being stealthed

I think riot is taking this whole counterplay thing WAY too far. Ya it was kind of dumb to get attacked out of nowhere at lv3 from eve, but this is just ridiculous. The stupidest thing by far to me is how other champions with practically zero counterplay just roam freely from nerfs and redesigns.

Like CLEARLY on some level, riot thinks that getting nuked out of stealth/camo is dumb. This is shown by Rengar Evelynn reworks and how large their camo range is. Also they think that dying in < 2 seconds is dumb, seeing as almost every assassin has some sort of timer or stack system since their reworks Leblanc Fizz Talon. Now Evelynn has to wait EVEN LONGER to do her full damage output, but also land a skillshot that does not go overtop minions.

Yet Twitch exists. Yet Chogath deals nearly assassin levels of burst in unavoidable true damage, only counterplay is to not be in range.

95 Comments

The Deckowner26 votes

When you try so hard to add counterplay to assassins without doing the same for adc, the result is adc becoming ridiculous.

Rand0mH3r0X3 votes

You can't even 1v1 assassinate an ADC as Evelynn unless that ADC turns off "Attack nearest enemy" and "Auto-Attack on cursor move"

MangelinaJolie8 votes

Yes you can. Don’t exaggerate. Unless the ADC gets fed off the bot lane (because don’t gank a duo lane early with Eve anymore) you can do it without your ult.

She’s struggling early but she is not nearly as bad as people are saying.

Nut on my Butt7 votes

{quoted}

Yes you can. Don’t exaggerate. Unless the ADC gets fed off the bot lane (because don’t gank a duo lane early with Eve anymore) you can do it without your ult.

She’s struggling early but she is not nearly as bad as people are saying.

Evelynn is not killing anyone from near full hp without her ultimate unless she's extremely fed.

Kloqdq2 votes

She spikes hard mid to late game and I think she can nuke people after she reaches that point.

The problem is reaching that point reliably.

Nut on my Butt1 votes

{quoted}

She spikes hard mid to late game and I think she can nuke people after she reaches that point.

The problem is reaching that point reliably.

Unfortunately, before you even get to that point, everyone is grouping.

LordGeovanni1 votes

and you are invisible and there fore can be in their back line with the enemy when the team fight starts.

Nut on my Butt1 votes

{quoted}

and you are invisible and there fore can be in their back line with the enemy when the team fight starts.

Doesn't matter. In this meta there is 80%+ the time an enchanter in the back line ready to negate all of your damage and an ADC ready to get amped up at the same time to kill you in 2 seconds and all because your W takes 2.5 seconds to charge and even points out your location.

As much as I want to blame all of it on the meta, I've never felt more useless in teamfights than this Eve on any other champion before. It's not like she has the splitpush power to make up for it either. Awful tower killing speed AND waveclear.

LordGeovanni1 votes

doesnt matter you dont need to kill the adc your self you can get help and just charming the adc either the adc spends the fight running or if you do get the charm off that adc is then out of the fight for 2 seconds.

Nut on my Butt1 votes

{quoted}

just charming the adc either the adc spends the fight running or if you do get the charm off that adc is then out of the fight for 2.5 seconds.

This is not how things play out in higher elo, eve is garbage, period.

LordGeovanni1 votes

so are many things until pro teams bring them out. because even in high elo people only play for theirselves and their pretty kda

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

You have to want to be assassinated in order for Eve to get you. Just do all the things an ADC shouldn't risk doing.

Mimr1 votes

{quoted}

You can't even 1v1 assassinate an ADC as Evelynn unless that ADC turns off "Attack nearest enemy" and "Auto-Attack on cursor move"

Well, I had a game where I was able to get to full build today (including Rabadon) and I have to say the damage was impressive. I'm thinking that when using this build I should simply drop the W from the rotation altogether lategame (or just instapop it for the slow, you don't need the MR shred with 500+ AP) and just protobelt->E->Lichbane->Q until ult symbol appears->R to kill them and GTFO. Her R alone does 1.5k damage before mitigation while in execute range at full build so it's a guaranteed kill on a squishy, even through shields.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

I think the way she scales makes her kit uneven. To maximize the damage, you have to use her combo in one strict order. Any deviation breaks her damage potential, sometimes dramatically.

She's not a QR Burst mage, and she's not a EQRTW AD Assassin. Her combo is just W(2sec), QEQQQR. If you try to do the full combo, you'll risk yourself to counter-play.

If you get close to an enemy, you risk yourself to counter-play. If you use W, you risk yourself to counter-play. If you use R to enter from stealth, you risk yourself to counter-play. If you want to Q, you have to get close, de-stealth, and remain for the other Q's, risking yourself to counter-play. If you picked Eve in a game that is Gold+, you risk yourself to counter-play.

Big Black Croc8 votes

Man, when Annie Chogath Twitch Syndra Veigar Vayne are better assassins than the actual assassins in the game.

Rozzeta1 votes

To be fair, before Riot made up all those new terms to justify balance decisions, Twitch and Vayne were considered assassins.

Blackstone014 votes

Twitch is still an assassin. It's just that he assassinates entire teams, not just individuals.

hopeful42 votes

Annie and Veigar are burst mages, they are supposed to be able to assassinate (and they are as shitty as the assassins right now)

As for the rest yeah, the result is ridiculous

Mafia LeBlanc5 votes

The first eve rework was the same - huge radius, 8 sec lockout, and knocked out of stealth on hit. The last point wasn't even changed until a few months before her rework. She was considered garbage on release til everyone played her mid with DFG. I haven't played her myself yet, so I don't really have a strong opinion either way.

I used to be an avid Eve main, but her rework looks okayish after tuning her major issues.

rtbf7610927116 votes

When you try to pop your charm on someone and minions get in the way of your q cast, you might be pretty disappointed. Or when they just walk away when you mark them with w.

Her ult feels great to use and has a lot more use than just execute which is her main redeeming quality but without some more tweaks i think she will be very low impact

Spank the Fox2 votes

I dislike her ult, they put too much emphasis on it.

A lot of assassin uls are "here we go" in terms that is where their power and fantasy come from. Almost every other assassin ult is proactive and ties together their kit. Eve's ultimate is merely a finisher and escape because "oops we forgot to put a real escape somewhere else"

Her old ult was better when it came to fights, giving her good survivability and there was a bit of a fear factor when she came out of stealth and you heard that horrific sound

Sexy Jack Rabbit7 votes

I don't get what you mean by "too much emphasis" when literally 99% of Assassins won't be killling anyone without their ultimate in the first place.

Evelynn's ult makes plenty of sense thematically, infact even more so then some assassins.

W is her Charming, Q + E is the torture and she ults and kills them when she's done with them.

In fact hers as much less emphasis on it since most of her damage is front loaded into her W.

Spank the Fox1 votes

Her W has does no damage though? The only damaging number on there is for monsters.

Besides, no assassin is 100-0 (or 90-0) without their ultimates early and mid game.

Last Caress is pretty binary for an assassin, that's my take on it. If Eve actually had the damage to kill someone without her ult late game, I could see it being a gap closer to proc her charm and brutalize them, but she never reaches the point where this is a viable option.

And it is too much emphasis. It's her escape, her AoE and her finisher. It does so much damage I wonder if it can be moved to other parts in her kit, because at 800 +1.5 AP ratio, she's overkilling her primary targets.

Yukínose3 votes

She does, actually. With one or two pure damage items, she's capable of killing without ult.

Spank the Fox1 votes

So you mean after 4 items and boots with "pure damage" statement, because she goes Runic Echo, Protobelt, then Sorc shoes, then your hypothetical "pure damage"

By that stage, teams are grouping up and she won't be getting a target alone.

Yukínose4 votes

If you're constantly trying to charm people while coming directly at them from the front, then yes, you need belt.

If you're actually playing her like an assassin that flanks opponents, and requires an actual sense of positioning, then belt isn't necessary at all. It's much better to go into a damage item, like Lich or even cap, than belt.

Spank the Fox1 votes

That makes even less sense since belt is far more effective from a flanking position.

I've played her with Gunblade into Lich into Void and her damage is still bordering "eh" without her ult.

Yukínose1 votes

You must be targetting the beefiest of champs, because damage items on Eve, particularly with Lich, is definitely enough to delete people.

https://my.mixtape.moe/fgqwao.mp4

Also, as for belt, why do you need the dash when the opponent's very likely walking right into you? You're not needing it for any movement when they won't be running away from your approach. I can't understand your logic.

Kai Guy2 votes

I personally am not having to hard of a time setting up the W for charm, most the time just getting a slow off is adequate but if you can make it into hard cc and get the MR reduction I see no reason to not use it. Its pretty easy to land Q, it comes out fast and its range is good. If some ones smack dab in a minion wave, once W is applied then they either move out giving you a window to Q, or they stand there and you can rush the E which sets up a Q. Imo the real key to hit your main target with the first Q cast as you want that empowered damage.

She really does depend on proper positioning and stalking targets. Early games a bit weak which is fine with me as Diversity is a plus. A common mistake I see folks making is they think they have to cast E from shadowform to get the empowered strike. Its buffed until next cast after passive pops, regardless of if shes camo or not. Ultis awesome but takes some getting used to, embrace it for escapes, gap closes, invulnerability frames, as well as the killing damage.

Also her build needs to be adaptable for comps, to many folks rush item 1402 or item 3100 when some times the enemy comp is mobility heavy and they should be picking up item 3152 early, just an example.

Zerdun4 votes

I thought her clear was rather healthy albit a tad slow when i start talisman and spam q on raptors while traveling to a different camp (ie take red take pot shots of raptors for easy free hp) TBH the only thing that i could see them doing to really give her more power during her play would be to increase the range of the boosted e post 6 (during team fight phase)

Yukínose1 votes

It's definitely really healthy.

The bot lane leash meta leaves her nearly topped off after the first buff. The camp between buffs leaves her nearly topped off with a potion, and the strength of a 3 second charm with a huge burst of damage.

The majority of her health is lost while fighting the second buff. And even then, she's still well above what could even possibly be considered "low in jg with no sustain and is squishy".

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Botlane leash meta? It is meta to NOT let top nor bot leash for pressure.

Yukínose1 votes

Dang, I wonder how I've gotten into so many games where my bot lane leashes for me.. I also wonder how the streamers I watch get so many games where bot lane leashes as well..

Am I just that (un)lucky?

AquariusGine3 votes

I think the thing with Eve's new kit is that she can be tuned to be stronger without being heavily oppressive.

Examples are, reducing waiting time for charm, or increasing range of E dash

I'm sure Riot will buff her to be more snowbally if she takes too long to ramp up

Rebonack5 votes

{quoted}

I think the thing with Eve's new kit is that she can be tuned to be stronger without being heavily oppressive.

Examples are, reducing waiting time for charm, or increasing range of E dash

I'm sure Riot will buff her to be more snowbally if she takes too long to ramp up

Jungle Assassin

Awful Early Game

Choose one, because the both are utterly incompatible with each other. Either she needs the tools to function in the late game (Skirmisher/Diver Eve) or she needs potent early game pressure so she can snowball and close out the game before she becomes irrelevant.

Yukínose3 votes

She has a decent (as in average. mediocre. middle of the road) early game, pre6. She has an extremely strong midgame. She's only weak when in a strictly 5v5 situation, and games do not reach that point very often.

Blackstone013 votes

Her pre 6 is fucking horrendous, she has zero gap closer/mobility to get into position for a gank, so the moment the W is cast they have to be sitting on your turret or be brain dead for the gank to have any chance of working, and yet unlike other poor early game junglers her objective control/hyperscaling doesn't exist.

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

Try ganking top pre 6, it's a free kill most of the time.

ninjaroxas2 votes

You do know it's a 5v5 game right?

Blackstone012 votes

And? She doesn't bring anything particularly desirable to the team. She doesn't fit the role shes designed for.

PrinceOfStorms2 votes

-that gets low in jg with no sustain and is squishy in the first place

Eve's first clear is actually one of the healthiest out of all junglers.

Skorch2 votes

Thats kind of the life of a lot of new champions right now.

Not all of them but quite a few get just so many downsides that their upsides struggle.

Examples: Ornn Felt INCREDOUBLY clunky on release, is still getting fixed because of it, to try to make him a less overbearing insane CC tank. Rakan Q felt awful on release, since if it was good Rakan would have CC, Sustain, Poke, everything a support would want. Until they realized Q was so bad that they needed to buff it.

Lately Riot seems to fear the 55-60% winrates on release so much that instead they feel okay with the champion being a noobtrap with a 30% winrate.

Red Wreckage2 votes

maybe you're are not supposed to mark your target from stealth.

more like just get in attacking range with stealth, start attacking, curse -> slow, your laner joins, pound enemy some more, Ult for KS and BOOM!

kalima9941 votes

did you see the damage on the w? you lose a lot of damage if you don't proc it

chipndip12 votes

He's saying that, in some cases, you don't need the charm on the W more than you just need the damage and slow. If you settle for the slow, you give them less time to react before you wail on them, except you lose the hard cc.

Synnx72 votes

Its riot. They should've sold themselves to Blizzard instead of tencent.

right click from 600 range = skill [zombie-brand-facepalm]

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

But duuuuude you need positioning duh. And you have the MOST EXPENSIVE ITEMS well unless you main trinity bruisers hehexd. Adcs also don't deal dmg, need 8 items before being relevant and they die to a nami bubble. Also mechanics are so hard on them you not only need to rightclick the enemy as soon as he is in range NO you also have to rightclick to MOVE IN BETWEEN. Sick.

Thunderneedle1 votes

Your items all cost 2600.....

Arakadia1 votes

She does have sustain??

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