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Turrets need to ramp up in damage further past 120%

rtbf76109271··126 votes·4,227 views

I'm so tired of seeing dive fights where the turret shoots 10 times and kills no one. Dives are a necessary evil and have to be possible, but I really think that they are too easy right now. the time window you have to dive with a top laner taking the turret shots is literally double what it should be in my opinion.

I looked at replay of a dive which I thought I played well, living for as long as possible using both flash and exhaust. I started the fight at 100% hp. During the dive a poppy with item 3068 item 3024 took 10 turret shots total which was 12 seconds of continuous turret fire. After I was dead, she still had enough hp to q/passive auto some minions under my tower, pick up her shield and walk out. Like she didn't even need to flash out and took another 2 turret shots to get some cs before backing just because she could.

Currently the turret caps at 120% I suggest this cap be doubled to 240%. Nothing should be able to tank turret shots for that long. If your dive is taking over 10 seconds you goofed and should not succeed so cleanly

56 Comments

NoSkillWrecking33 votes

Just remove the limit in general, let that shit hit nuclear if they stay too long.

Anidan21 votes

If it gets to 400% I want to start seeing it launch little mini nukes, complete with explosions. It'd be neat.

Papa Andrei5 votes

Russia approves of this

Irelia Bot7 votes

As does Trump

B1naryB0t2 votes

Trump approves of anything Russia does now.

Spice POWAH2 votes

make it fire Jinx Rockets, as in her ult.

Rivuo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spice POWAH,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gmUlJmAZ,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2017-01-06T07:27:21.649+0000)

make it fire Jinx Rockets, as in her ult.

LOOL

Miku Append1 votes

{quoted}

Just remove the limit in general, let that shit hit nuclear if they stay too long.

Turn the surrounding area into Chernobyl for the enemy team.

notice me Sin pi9 votes

there was 1 game where I was playing leona supp. I dived 2vs2 under enemy tower at lv6. I tanked about 10~12 turret shots + enemy cait ult for my low health ezreal adc while being under turret, and walked out of tower alive. Both my teammates and enemies that saw it happen went "wtf is that turret tanking"

hunterspec8 votes

make the turrets stronger, don't make them die as easily.

Zen Ineth6 votes

TWO HUNDRED AND FORTY PERCENT INCREASE

TRUE DAMAGE

Towers need to at least protect people so we can get around to protecting them!

Anidan3 votes

true damage is a no go, partner. Good luck diving that GP, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, etc., when they have that much help in terms of damage.

Zen Ineth2 votes

Looks like some salty baby is allergic to good ideas

Anidan2 votes

Salty? You're not using that term correctly.

Anyway, true damage for towers isn't a good idea specifically for the early game. The later towers can have it if you want it since you're not hitting those until later in the game, but early on when people have 500-1000 hp (assuming they build HP items first for the upper end) then true damage on towers is fairly significant. This will curb early dives, but this will make champions that have great survivability all but impossible to dive successfully. Imagine diving a Riven with this change implemented, or Renekton. You're not making it out without at least one casualty, minimum, due to how much they can elongate their lifespan under threat of the turret. Then in addition to that you make it easier for champions who have crap early games in general to make it to the later stages of the game. The increased safety would also drag the games on longer, and people have historically had problems with long games just as much as they do with short snowbally games.

And to point it out: if it was a good idea, it would stand against reasonable scrutiny, yes? So now this is the part where you'd have to defend your idea.

rtbf761092711 votes

If they did some true damage, it doesn't necessarily have to do MORE total damage against low armor targets. It would just pierce tanks better if some % of tower attack was true damage. It's in effect the same as raising the armor pen.

My main point is just that towers do too little damage to tanks over the course of a 10+ seconds dive. Whether they add true damage, armor pen or just more damage it doesn't matter to me a ton. If tanks have to care about the 5th tower shot onwards, without changing them much against carries, then I would be really happy. Since dives are out of hand right now and a lot of it is because poppy and crew can tank turrets MUCH longer than a fight is going to last, and still walk out casually

Anidan2 votes

If it's a tank past the early game then you're not realistically going to force them to care as much as squishies unless it's % damage. Make it a flat true damage and it doesn't matter as much since they build high amounts of HP anyway, and early game it would affect both squishies and tanks-to-be.

Besides, if you make it actually scary to tanks then this still adds a good deal of power to turtling, and turtling is neither exciting to watch, play as, or play against. There's a reason Techies is almost universally hated over in DotA2. It would come down to trying to catch the enemy when they're away from their towers, meaning it's harder to push into the base, allowing what should by generally all means be a victory to go south and be prolonged far longer than necessary simply because towers scare off dives too easily and allow turtling to become predominant. It's happened before in League where turtling is absurdly strong.

I'm not opposed to buffing towers, but we can't be reckless about it. I do agree that they need something, though.

ZT Xperimentor6 votes

Said it years ago, they should never have put a damage cap on turrets.

Pupel5 votes

I can respect a well executed dive. Where they juggle agro properly and land their abilities and kill me fast. However I can feel the frustration when eve comes to dive me and maoki takes 7-8 turret shots and walks out while the eve runs around my tower. Like I if can can survive for 5-6 seconds the tower should be putting in some deeps.

rtbf761092712 votes

Ya i feel the same frustration. It's like if they get aggro on the armor/hp target, the turret might as well not be shooting at all

Supreme Senpai691 votes

Can you even juggle aggro anymore? I know they removed it a long time ago, but they may have brought it back

metabuser4 votes

http://i.imgur.com/IUMDS0F.gif

Spice POWAH3 votes

I got super fed as fiora a couple games ago and was able to out sustain both nexus towers, J4 and Illaoi.

I'd say towers need a buff.

Pentakill Kaiser2 votes

IMO Turrets should deal 15% maxhp true damage scaling up 5% on each consecutive shot. This way, you can turret dive, but 5000 HP Malphite can't sit there and tank about 20+ shots while their ADC kills everyone.

Glory ln Death3 votes

So, everyone dies in 4 turret shots and dives are impossible unless you're Dr Mundo or have some way of removing aggro like Fizz and Vlad. In fact, low HP champions with strong shields or supports who can shield them would be the best champions to tank turrets.

That's going way too far.

Pentakill Kaiser2 votes

Hmm, start at 10% then perhaps. Considering most champions have %maxhp damage or %maxhp true damage, why not give it to Turrets too?

The Yetii Rider2 votes

Riot has stated they intend to look at tanks and see if tanks are too tanky and whether they should nerf armor/HP stuff.

If you want turrets to ramp up more I guess it's okay, as long as there's a hard cap against minions. Supers are supposed to tank turrets like bosses and that's fine.

rtbf761092713 votes

Turrers only ramp up with consecutive shots against champions already, not minions

ItsOrval1 votes

They need the ability to have armor penetration. Like 40% or something. A full ad lee ganked my lane, tower shot him 6 times, brought him only to 40% health. This was at the 10 minuteish mark as well.

rtbf761092715 votes

they do have armor pen, it's at 30% right now. That value could ramp up instead of just increasing the damage by more. It would be better vs tanks and similar vs carries

500000000000000013 votes

If a full AD Lee tanked too many tower shots, then the issue isn't armor pen. Unless you're proposing flat armor pen, which is kinda interesting but doesn't really address the "tanks tanking towers forever" issue.

TeCoolMage1 votes

can be both

Jesus is Savior1 votes

Penetration (or true damage) maybe, but infinite ramping damage no. That would be too strong against squishies, who can sometimes lifesteal/vamp JUUUUUST enough to survive that last turret shot.

rtbf7610927111 votes

squishies are NOT supposed to be ok with taking multiple turret shots. Those times they "juuuuust" survived, they honestly should have died because turrets do too little damage

also I never suggested infinite ramping, but to 240% which would take about 14 seconds of continuous turret fire on champions. That's an incredibly long time still

Jesus is Savior2 votes

{quoted}

squishies are NOT supposed to be ok with taking multiple turret shots. Those times they "juuuuust" survived, they honestly should have died because turrets do too little damage

also I never suggested infinite ramping, but to 240% which would take about 14 seconds of continuous turret fire on champions. That's an incredibly long time still

Some squishies have invulnerability and other tricks to take lots of turret shots without dying (eg: Tryndamere, Kayle), and if the turrets ramped any higher they would basically get one-shot by a single turret blast at the end of their ult.

rtbf7610927115 votes

...so? Are you really suggesting that squishies should NOT die by the 8th to 10th turret shot they tank??

Right now it takes about 7 seconds for a turret to ramp up to full damage. If a squishy target has been tanking a turret (even by means of invulnerability ult ect) for over 10 seconds** they should die**

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

Lol I suggested a higher cap on the ramp up a month or so ago and the thread just died. Oh well, so long as someone gets the idea through to the peeps

Ultîma1 votes

If turrets dealt flat ramping true damage it would definitely help against armour stacking, while still remaining dangerous to squishier targets. The problem right now is that a tank can just outright ignore turret damage before end game. They need to be a threat to everyone; not just a few classes.

Blumpkin Nation1 votes

I honestly believe the only counter to turret damage should be health. It should deal true damage.

If that isn't acceptable then in it's current state it should penetrate 100% of bonus armor.

ColorfulNarwhal1 votes

if they ignored armor that would be true damage...

Blumpkin Nation1 votes

Sorry, I meant to say %health damage and was for true damage.

xMichaelx31 votes

Turrets are too weak... not only they are really easy to destroy, they do very little damage even to non-tanks. I remember when I started playing in 2012, the turrets were much stronger and it took some effort to take them down.

4atu001 votes

Maybe turrets should have scaling armor pen and damage? Something like this: (these are scaling by the number of shots)

25/32.5/40/47.5/55/62.5/70 % Armor pen

100/125/150/175/200/250/275/300 % Damage (and maybe some percentage health damage)

But maybe lower their damage scaling to make up for these changes a little bit

I don't think you should be able to just go under the turret with 1/3 of your health and be 100% safe but if a tank can make turrets obsolete early/mid game there's something wrong. But at the end of mid game and late game a 4-6 item tank should be able to take 5-8 turrets shot before dying. And i have no idea if those numbers would allow this but i'm not that interested in doing math right now.

John McFee1 votes

Call me crazy but what if turrets did mixed damage biased on which would do more damage (up to some limit) to you, that way you can't just stack 1000 armor and health to survive?

TheOneTrueBrand1 votes

Why not keep the current 120% bonus damage, but tack on some %hp true damage while at max damage, that way no matter how tanky you get turrets stay dangerous. Maybe something like 5% max HP true damage per shot plus the current damage, maybe more.

Either that or increase turret attack speed per stack, only while targeting champions.

Faustavian1 votes

Had a level 7 Fizz Troll pole into my tower (it targeted him immediately), kill me, and walk out just a bit above ~30%. Items? item 3191 item 3057 item 1056

Mighty Mortein1 votes

Got dove by an enemy Fiora top who wasn't incredibly fed, I believe I had more kills than her as a Jinx in bot. She had 72 armour and was able to tank the tower for 4-6 shots. She did ult, but before that she took like no damage. Why is this cool?

Valeckserai1 votes

While it is hilarious to do and has made me laugh my ass off repeatedly, being able to tank over 40 turret shots as a TahmKench is not good for game health.

KraDEsluP2821 votes

item 3056 I have never seen anybody use this

Dengeden1 votes

I find it ironic that the same people who say there is too much damage want an increase in tower damage, a targeted, medium range damage source.

If the dive took that long, it was way past the early game. You farmed but didn't do anything with your gold.

FrostedMiniGnar1 votes

I'm not good with Udyr, and still tanked 14 turret shots 1v3 and got out alive. It's like the towers don't even exist late game. If there are no enemies around, you can just walk up and 100-0 the turret without allied minions. The damage should increase on a % health scale instead of damage multiplier. This would still allow some tower diving by squishies but keep tanks at least somewhat vulnerable to turrets.

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