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scrying orb discussion

Knight SoIaire ··6 votes·716 views

lets face it this item despite having a good and practicaly usefull concept is a failure (find me 10 ppl in 5 last games who took it and then disagree with me if you must)

the orb has to reveal an area far away from you but there are kinda big flaws of that
enemies know that you saw them so they will just be cautious and run away so its better to place an invisible ward in a place you expect a guy to be and just wait for him to be there instead of showing him a giant warning that you see him

cooldown is too big for the amount vision it provides so again a ward despite being totaly close range beats it cause if you will substract the time you walked to place that ward you will still get like a 50 seconds of vision more

range despite being bigger than a ward range is not astonishing map wise

when we will connect all the dots we get something completly useless compared to other tools, because its counterplay is just looking at your champ instead of using the sweeper or just getting your own vision to see if someone hunts you, and it just does not provide anything almouts literaly compared to other tools

scrying orb needs a littel fix and its a fact that i would like you to discuss with me

personaly i think that the orb and it upgrades could be tuned to work perfectly

the first thing that would need to be dealt with is visibility, its like pink wards, useless as a wards (well they can provide vision of the space enemy is not in, but usualy after they die you have no idea where the guy went) yet good at detecting guys with a burst of inbvisibility like rengar and akali, as far as enemy knows that you see him the trinket is useless because its primary use is in ambushes, you can find someone in the jungle and slaughter him, or you can check a bush for enemy team and make a suprise engage at the carry who is not in the backline, as far as enemy is aware you see him, both will 100% fail

the second thing is the cast range and area uncovered this particular trait i would like to tinker with, but only for upgraded orb or orbs, we could get 2 upgrades, one which would increase the area uncovered, and the one which would increase the cast range, or even third that would increase the duration, well you pump some gold into upgrade so you shouuld be rewarded

i would be happy to see what you think about the trinket and propose your own stuff

21 Comments

Deep Terror Nami4 votes

They should just get rid of Scrying Orb item 3342 altogether, and buff Clairvoyance {{summoner:2}} to fill its role. My proposal for Clairvoyance buff is;

Clairvoyance is now a passive that buffs your wards and trinkets

  • Increases the range you can place any ward by 50%
  • Sweeper Lense gains benefits of level 9 upgrade from the start.
  • After purchasing your first Trinket upgrade, you can change to a different one at no cost.

Too OP? Instead of a passive, give it a CD for the increased ranges.

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

too much power planting wards from a safe distance it too much power no matter how much cooldown it will have, preventing a 5 man ambush is a game changer on its own

i would rather remove clirvoyance from my own side , trinkets are tools for vision, ward vision, anti vision, and targeted vision clairvoyance is just one summoner spell pushed out of the game by flash, even if you buff it it wont get picked, cause besides almighty flash, wards and trinkets are already enough for vision, and clairvoyance would have to win with heal, exshaust, ignite, teleport, most of them is just better at fixing mistakes than seeing a spot on the map

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

So, vision from a range is too OP, and vision from a range not good enough to compete. You said both things in one go. There is a middle ground to be had, you know?

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

vision form a 3 min ward vs vision from 4 sec scrying orb

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

You can't compare the two like that, they're separate and do not interfere with each other. Choosing Clairvoyance does not mean you lose access to wards. Having wards does not mean you can't use Clairvoyance, so there is no "versus" to be had.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

if i understand correctly you say that 3 min ward that you can put from realy far away and clairvoyance on top of that in single spell is not op ?

i would like to buff scrying orb cause its totaly nnot worth to invest in clairvoyance cause its a trinket already

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

Clairvoyance active in my suggestion doesn't exist, so NO, "clairvoyance on top of that in" is not what I said at all. Did you read it? You're saying Clairvoyance is a waste, that is EXACTLY why it needs to be changed. Scrying Orb is NOT a waste, it has its uses but does the same thing as Clairvoyance so there's no reason for both to exist.

Lord Graves III1 votes

I feel like this is a little like saying, "we have ward totem we have no need for sightstone to exist."

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

No, because the wards from trinkets, sightstone, and regular purchase all share the same limit of 3. They all have their place but you don't get them at the same time. Yet again, there is no comparison there.

Lord Graves III1 votes

what if we just buffed the cooldowns on scrying orb and maybe removed the feature where the enemy knows they were scryed?

Eapenator2 votes

Already in many completive games, scrying orb becomes one of the best trinkets dye to its power to grant vision in areas where you do not have vision. The only reason why you don't see it picked often in solo queue and early game is because,

a) you are more accurately able to predict where the enemy team is at all times. Smart players can tell what the enemy is up too most of the time due to a few simple queues by the enemy team. In addition to this, in solo queue, many players often follow the same patterns of movement depending on which role they are playing, making planting wards in the most popular areas much more valuable then the scrying orb. Vice versa, using the red trinket to clear these areas is also much more valuable.

b) Early game, the denial of vision, while important, is not as wide spread, resulting in both sides able to have a significant portion of vision at all times in the early game in order to still stay safe. This is a result due to players having less gold early game to spend on vision, telegraphed patterns (laning phase) resulting in less need to deny vision in most areas, as well as less opportunity to roam and clear wards, and the trinkets being intentionally weaker. This devalues the scrying orbs purpose to grant vision in an area where you have no control because you often know from your warding previously as well as empty lanes where the enemy might be (dragon).

Now look at why pros take scrying orb. Late game (in LCS and ranked 5 at least) , when your team roams as 5, they often clear vision in whole swathes of the jungle for control in an important area, often dragon, baron, enemy jungle. Scrying orb becomes much more useful in this situation because it allows the opposing team to get vision in an area in order to follow it up with their owns wards and slowly fight back for their vision, instead of having to blindly get in range to place a ward down, get picked off, and then proceed to lose. This is why good teams will have at least one person get a scrying orb late game, and it will always need to be part of the game in order to combat this issue. As scrying orb currently is, Riot is currently really satisfied with its position in the game as a niche role that is vital, as opposed to it being overly dominant/never used at all, so do not expect any changes to scrying orb anytime soon, unless there are some other vision changes that they may be planning for S5.

GuiltyGecko1 votes

Buffing Orb would make it really powerful in competitive play, as it's already used to great effect there. It currently has two uses. It's used by supports and/or adc players when they are behind late game and face checking becomes dangerous, and by mid laners early game to find the jungler. I have found that the second one is very effective, but requires a mid laner that understands jungle times.

Sunfield1 votes

Pros use it quite often tbh... and if you buff its pre upgraded state, there will be no real reason to upgrade it. Not to mention, Scrying Orb functions as a cock block for plays and making it more powerful could make pro games boring. As well as normal games.

Decrit1 votes

I belive there is place for the scrying orb: scouting, counterjungling and such. However is too much undervalued compared to wards, yet they can' t straightly reduce the CD too much else the competitive scene will explode of them: remember, you can always purchase wards instead of getting totem, and lens are still a risk.

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

Maybe item 3342 's vision can be invisible for the enemy team?

said the guy above you, and he might be right, you wont couterjungle cause you send a warning that you plan something, couple pings and enemy team searches you or defends the jungler

the guy under you says that pros use it as scarecrow, and it will work as such, its a big warning that someone looks at you

the guy below this guy says that midders use it to chatch enemy jungler and here is where i crack, i would like it buffed for exclusively that reason, i cant find myseld getting their jungler in his jungle if he knows that i search for him, he will just pop a ward, pingspam or run away

i have no idea how pros use it, maybe they pick xerath and nuke the poor guy from orbit, still i dont watch them, well if they use it all i can do is to shed a tear cause i prolly wont be able to use it in soloq

Decrit1 votes

I read that and i think it should still be visible to the enemy team: if a laner after that is missing then it means that they want to defend jungle, so it loses lane and you can go back to farm your jungle, else you try and jump in: who sais that he has a ward ready, and even if he has then he will waste that and still can' t stop you from counter jungling.

Still it' s a pain in the axe, so maybe make the effect longer or the area wider could be a good way to buff?

Eapenator1 votes

As for why Pros use it, check my other post,

The reason scrying orb needs to be seen by the enemy team is because it is essentially free vision at absolutely no risk to the user. Not only does it give you the opportunity to scout high areas in the fog of war and prevent you from walking into 5 man traps, but it gives you the ability to follow up with wards of your own.

The reason why scrying orb will never be used in solo queue is because your whole team usually never aids the support in vision denial and warding, as opposed to higher levels of play where the whole team will be able to deny all vision at objectives and set up picks.

Scrying orb levels the playing field when the enemy controls an area completely in a way that is balanced. It makes it feel that the team without control does not feel completely trapped (like in S3), without giving the team with no vision control too much power, making the enemy team feel that their time is wasted (S1 clairvoyance). When you use the scrying orb to get vision in a certain bush before following up with a ward, the enemy can plan around it by setting up a pick behind a nearby wall (since they see the orb animation). These options and counter play is something the players have to keep in mind and add more depth to the game. Unfortunately, other than using it to snipe enemies as a mid laner, scrying orb does not have much use in solo queue, but in team games, it is invaluable.

Unfortunately, it looks like CV is going to have to be replaced due to it being completely over powered when you try to make it better than scrying orb, or completely pointless since you can just get the trinket and another summoner spell when it is similar to scrying orb.

exiledFromBadmen1 votes

Maybe item 3342 's vision can be invisible for the enemy team?

Worgslarg1 votes

Make the vision invisible, make it show invisible units, and give it a charge system( 2 charges), and a 45 secish charge time.

EDIT- and give it a much larger range

Zarkkast1 votes

It's pretty awesome on Caitlyn, Xerath and such, but that's about it.

Aamano1 votes

I only go for the Scrying Orb when I play as Evelynn Evelynn , but when I do actually use it, I find it quite helpful

I can use it to check bushes for a Pink Ward before I go down that path so I can either avoid it or go back into the jungle and not waste my time

I also use it when I'm invading the enemy jungle to see if their jungler is at a buff half dead or waiting in ambush

true, they know you see them but they don't know what direction you are

it's a great scouting tool if you take the time to appreciate it

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