I think one of League's biggest issues is a lack of mid-tier items.

ModCaptainMårvelous··5 votes·673 views

So gameplay the perpetually burning tire-fire is still complaining about the state of the game. That said, when thinking it over, I think they're complaining about the wrong aspects and why certain things are snowballing/snowbally. I don't believe just doing a mass damage nerf or resistance buff across the board will fix it either, because it completely misses an important part: The lack of comeback/mid-tier items.

One of the biggest problems when you lose a kill is that your lane opponent is coming back to lane with a better item than you are in almost every circumstance. Nowhere does this tend to be more apparent than ADCs: In equal farm save for a kill, the ADC that's 1/0/0 gets to come back to lane with a BF sword. ADC who is 0/1/0 might just be coming back with a pickax or maybe another dorans item. The disparity between builds in this case is enormous, the ADC with a kill getting almost double the AD compared to the one who didn't get it. Depending on the match up, you could be even more screwed as well.

This is why I think nerfing damage won't truly fix the problem: Yes, it might make team fights last longer, but it's not going to fix the feeling that someone gets a kill and comes to lane with a massive, numeric advantage over you. Instead, we need to look at items and see what we can do there.

The general idea of mid-tier items is something a little more powerful than Seeker's Armguard or Phage but doesn't build into something or is something you sell later like doran's. I don't have stats, statistics or ideas to back up what this item would be for each class because it's such a wild and varied idea that has to fit so many characters. That said, let me explain why I think it'd be good:

1.) A Way to Come Back

In buying a mid-tier item, you're telling the enemy that you're on the backfoot. However, because of this, you can take them in an even fight. It allows you to lane against someone and compete with them in all-ins even though they're ahead of you. Which leads to the next point:

2.) Advantage softening, not erasing.

The counterpoint to the first point would be "Oh wow so my advantage means nothing". This isn't true. The enemy can't build a major item/component of something they'll need in the late game. You, however, are sporting an item that will be outscaled soon. You're banking on your skills to come back and catch-up to them in a fair fight rather than just buying an item that will beat them. Likewise, the enemy still has to work but they know that they have an advantage in the later game because they didn't have to make a detour.

3.) Mid-tier items can be powerful, flexible items for many situations.

Stopwatch is a great example of a mid-tier item. A one-time use that gives a zhonya's effect but is a pricy investment for one use. It's powerful but not overbearing. It can be the difference between trading kills and getting back into the game. Imagine more items with similar effects: Items that have meh-to-decent stats but powerful actives which would make late game items absolutely broken. These tools reward players who play smart on the retreating side, not punish people who got ahead.

4.) With proper balance, it's a long term solution to issues of game health.

Nerfing or buffing things will completely alter the game, which could lead to length issues down the road. This was apparent in Seasons 4/5, when the early game had zero bearing because it was so easy to just turtle up and wait for the 60 minute mark when one death meant baron and two towers. Mid-tier items, however, allow for breathing room for changes. If things are too snowbally with mid-tier items, then you can tweak the game. If games go on too long, you can pull the levers on mid-items and make comebacks harder.

Personally, I don't think the game is in as dire a state that everyone else does. However, I can understand people being frustrated with no way to come back. It was a problem that many people had in previous seasons when you had little-to-no comeback mechanisms if the better player got ahead. I think that mid-tier items can create a buffer that allows Riot more tools/levers to judge game health as well as having another tool in the kit to help balance should games become too long or in the event that we revert to Season 4/5 when the early game had zero bearing because of how easy it was to come back.

18 Comments

D4M2X03 votes

enjoy season 8, nothing will change for about 7-9 months

SmurfBlanc3 votes

Mid tier items used to exist in old days of league - Chalice and Haunting Guise, in particular, were seen as very good mid-grade items, but had no upgrade paths.

They were generally regarded as noob traps, since if you built them, you were down a slot, and would have to sell them later anyway.

The idea is cool, but the items will never be built if they don't upgrade into late game items, which then defeats the whole purpose of your post.

Ahristocats1 votes

i see i understand now why item 1055item 1056 item 1054 aren't built at all

the problem with old chalice or even old haunting guise is that they weren't powerful enough to be bought without upgrades

Salron1 votes

Don't really think 450g item dead end investment is a fair comparison to a 1500g~ dead end investment

Ahristocats1 votes

I'm going to take the risk and talk about DOTA

that game has a shit ton of "dead end investment" items that are still built ring of aquilla drums or even urn of shadow:

Provides 35 health regeneration when cast on allies, and deals 25 damage over 8 seconds when cast on enemies.

Lasts 8 seconds.

Gains charges every time an enemy hero dies within 1400 units. Only the closest Urn to the dying hero will gain a charge.

thing is league doesn't and didn't have powerful mid game items chalice was garbage alone, it didn't give you a gold efficient item and the passive was bad BACK THEN because mana costs were insane

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

What Rubick said.

The problem with Chalice/Haunting guise is that these were mid-tier items that were flat stats and one passive. It has nothing to do with them being mid-tier items but the items themselves being bad. And, as it turns out, once they had an upgrade path they were bought all the time because they weren't bad.

A mid-tier item would have to be more powerful than a handful of stats. It needs something like Stopwatch: A powerful active.

SmurfBlanc3 votes

They weren't bad though. Chalice was an item that could be bought to immediately solve a champ's mana problems. Nasus could build it for lane sustain, Anivia could build it bc of her ridiculous mana costs, and etc. It wasn't completely unheard of for people to buy chalice to sell it later, but it was looked down upon by the community because many saw it as a waste.

Haunting Guise was a powerful item - it had very good winrate % stats, but since it didn't have an end game path for a long time, nobody built it.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Again, it relates back to the problem I described above though: They were decent/passable at best, They didn't have anything in the way of a comeback mechanism built in and they sure as hell didn't have crazy bonuses to justify them being purchased. They were decent, yes, but decent doesn't cut it if you don't have an upgrade path.

Conversely, what I'm proposing is to have crazy powerful mid-tier items that fall off. Imagine an item that silences an enemy but has little-to-nothing in the way of stats. Yeah, it sounds incredible, but without a late game build path you'll find it hard to justify a short silence stick comparative to something absurd like a deathcap. Chalice/Guise were just decent stats. Decent stats don't cut it for a mid-tier item. You need to blow people away with it to justify getting it, even if the item itself is passable-to-good compared to similar items.

Extra Example: Sheen would still be a good item even if it didn't build into anything. That doesn't mean people would still buy sheen if it didn't have build paths anymore.

SmurfBlanc1 votes

If you make it that gamebreaking, won't that mean that your opponent will be able to afford it on the first back and will then use it to bully you out of lane?

I think if you're trying to do comeback items, use something that can't be abused if you already have a lead, similar to Lord Dom's passive. Possibly an item that gives a bonus if you are lower level or are zoned off csing.

When you simply release an inexpensive bombshell item, that's just going to be the next BF sword that everyone will rush the second they get FB in lane to maintain their lead. It will just make the gap worse, rather than help the one who is struggling.

nyakasgoods1 votes

But the point is that while it gives you an advantage in the short term, it lacks potential unless you use it to establish a lead; it wouldn't be worth buying some sort of low-stat active shield item or something like that in lane if your lane opponent already can't kill you because of your advantage, but if you can use it to win a close fight from behind than you can lessen your disadvantage.

KlydeFrog1 votes

dorans shield needs to cost less to the amount of dorans ring.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Well, I think mid-tier items are a good idea, but I would say they should have upgrades.

MorganFreemanBot2 votes

Back in season 2, and to a lesser extent s3, "mid tier" (and even early tier) items existed.

They were universally considered garbage or godly.

Basically, the problem is gold efficiency and ending the game asap.

An item not designed for early game will, historically, fall into one of two categories. Either it will be a waste of gold and a 'trap', because it doesn't have enough stats for the cost to justify setting yourself back compared to a late game item... Or it will be so unbelievably OP that everyone who wants the same things will rush it, and then just use it to snowball into their better build.

For examples:

Too weak: Haunting Guise didn't used to build into torment, because torment didn't used to exist. It was exclusively a 'mid tier' item which gave strong health, ap, and flat magic pen for cost. It was, for the cost, super efficient. However no one bought it (except for LB; she was the ONLY ONE) because the gold cost would set you back too much. Even when behind it wasn't worth the investment vs what you could buy for the late game.

Too strong: Brutalizer. For the low cost of 1337 gold you would get 15 (or was it 25?) ad, 10% CDR, and 10 flat armor pen. It was insanely good, and every AD top laner would rush this item first and foremost. Early game champ, late game champ, mid game champ, didn't matter. Brutalizer was your first buy, every day and all day. Even before it became a component for the old AD focused Black Cleaver this was true.

Revali1 votes

The problem with midtier items is sometimes they're so powerful that theres no need to even complete the said item. Granted this is an extreme case, I think bramble vest is very good example as to why mid tier items cant be to powerful.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

This isn't true and doesn't hit on why Bramblevest was powerful.

Had Bramble been just a singular item with zero upgrades, it'd be an iffy item. A lot of armor, a lot of reflect damage but you pay for it by having an item that won't upgrade. Bramble, however, upgraded into Thornmail and was a great early pick-up that could transition into a decent end-game item. There was no drawback to buying bramble, sitting on it for 40+ minutes, then turning it into an end-game item after you won the lane.

Hence why I pointed out that mid-game items should be a backfoot thing. Something you buy to compete/get through a bad lane phase but not something that will transition into a numerical advantage.

Ayanami3rd1 votes

Indeed, "intermediate" items like bramble vest and stopwatch (which is part of Zhonya's build path) are great items. It wouldn't hurt to have more.

KlydeFrog1 votes

thats not the case coming back with a item advantage.....well let me go further many times when i was supp my adc got a triple or double kill and what does he do gets greaves and 400gold crit item.....the enemy adc comes back with bf sword ........we proceeded to lose lane after that .......

Morning Raven1 votes

ADCs rushing greaves annoys me beyond belief. Yes, buy a boots of speed. However, if you have enough gold to finish greaves, you could have bought a zeal instead.

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