Bard's got one major problem with his roaming ways: he inevitably ends up lower level than every other support, even if he's collecting chimes non-stop. Can his chimes be adjusted to give extra experience either according to Bard's level or the duration of the game?
RiotMeddler34 votesYeah, the XP rewards for Chimes could potentially stand to be higher. We're planning on testing Chimes giving more XP based off game time this week, along with a couple of other small Bard buffs (an adjustment so Chimes don't spawn deep in the enemy jungle in the first 5 minutes and a slight increases to the speed/range of Q). We're keeping buff testing light on him for a little bit since we're still assessing the impact of the 5.7 changes. He's definitely in a significantly better spot, and probably still has some untapped performance, but's probably still on the weak side too.
Rainbowgasm1 voteschimes spawning in the enemy jungle early on weren't much of a problem for me most of the time. I felt like it sort of increased his skill cap and rewarded supports who had their "jungle sense" on. I honestly enjoyed the thrill of going for them.
the movement speed for his Q was the biggest bummer for me.
Solidair37 votesI have to agree; he feels better than ever to play right now. Had a game yesterday where I was dominant for MOST of the game, but during the midgame I definitely had trouble keeping up with EXP. I think exp based on game time is probably the best way to do it.
iluvalar4 votesYeah, the XP rewards for Chimes could potentially stand to be higher. We're planning on testing Chimes giving more XP based off game time this week, along with a couple of other small Bard buffs (an adjustment so Chimes don't spawn deep in the enemy jungle in the first 5 minutes and a slight increases to the speed/range of Q). We're keeping buff testing light on him for a little bit since we're still assessing the impact of the 5.7 changes. He's definitely in a significantly better spot, and probably still has some untapped performance, but's probably still on the weak side too.
Hope you read this. Another very small potential improvements : make the chimes spawn on minutes instead of 50 seconds. Simply make an extra chimes once in a while to compensate.
I found if I control where I am and take a step back when the chimes spawn, I make much less chimes spawn on the wrong side of the map by myself. The only problem is, I'd need to memorize exactly every multiple of 50 seconds to do it reliably, which seem to me like a very elitist thing to do. If they were spawning every minute, it would be much easier to use that trick.
Thunder Dreamss5 votesThey could add a buff with a cooldown timer so you can see when the next chime spawn is coming if you watch your buff area. That way they don't need to change the math but players don't need to memorize each spawn time either.
Pinker 101 votesmultiples of 50s aren't hard though, it's -10
Jamnon1 votesMore work than not having to -10 every time. In a reaction based game such as League, distraction can mean death, even if it is for a fraction of a second. So for every moment you are -10, is a moment you put yourself at greater risk.
Jamnon1 votesWait you can control where in the map the meeps appear? How do you do that?
Sirsir2 votesand a slight increases to the speed/range of Q
YESSSSS! THANK YOU RITO!
I just have to wonder tho, how many people that find themselves underleveled don't take the Mastery that helps that. I run that and one XP quint and I never find myself particularly behind in XP.
Apollocliptic1 votesOne thing a few fellow summoners and myself have been hoping for is gold on chimes. Only , maybe 3 (maybe scaling with time too), but I think 1-3 is fine. It'd balance out his gold income compared to other supports, especially those that earn gold by being in lane (when minions are killed) or by poking. True, you should roam when the lane is pushed, but even in those windows you lose out on gold, and Building on a bard is still pretty tricky (I also still think vision from his W would make so much sense), but yeah, I've been a fan since launch, despite his weaknesses, and will play him regardless :D
10Tickler3 votesYeah, the XP rewards for Chimes could potentially stand to be higher. We're planning on testing Chimes giving more XP based off game time this week, along with a couple of other small Bard buffs (an adjustment so Chimes don't spawn deep in the enemy jungle in the first 5 minutes and a slight increases to the speed/range of Q). We're keeping buff testing light on him for a little bit since we're still assessing the impact of the 5.7 changes. He's definitely in a significantly better spot, and probably still has some untapped performance, but's probably still on the weak side too.
Actually, on the note of Bard and Tweaks, He either needs FAR more chimes in ARAM mode, or Each Chime needs to be worth more to his Meeps passive. He's fun to play, and can easily turn a teamfight in ARAM, but the Chimes seem a little tacked on in the mode
thinking man1 votesYeah, the XP rewards for Chimes could potentially stand to be higher. We're planning on testing Chimes giving more XP based off game time this week, along with a couple of other small Bard buffs (an adjustment so Chimes don't spawn deep in the enemy jungle in the first 5 minutes and a slight increases to the speed/range of Q). We're keeping buff testing light on him for a little bit since we're still assessing the impact of the 5.7 changes. He's definitely in a significantly better spot, and probably still has some untapped performance, but's probably still on the weak side too.
Part of the reason why he sucks is he's hard to play so I suggest you guys be careful about any large buffs beyond reliability to his chimes RNG since his kit is stupid strong when used well.
bluegolisano1 votesWouldn't this mean a Twitch could be hyper-slingshotted by Bard's Chimes, though? Just a bit worried of Bronze 3 getting someone who figures out Bard and Twitch is an OP Combo due to bonus XP on twitch, making his pokes more powerful.
alagore1 votesHow do chimes give twitch xp? I think your confused.
Star PlatinumELO1 votesIts the fact twitch gets all the minion xp while bard is gone getting his chimes.
bluegolisano1 votes"XP rewards for Chimes" Literal wording from Meddler.
alagore1 votesBard gets the xp from chimes, no one else. Only way it could give twitch exp is the fact bard isn't in lane soaking exp.
Ale non è male1 votesYeah, the XP rewards for Chimes could potentially stand to be higher. We're planning on testing Chimes giving more XP based off game time this week, along with a couple of other small Bard buffs (an adjustment so Chimes don't spawn deep in the enemy jungle in the first 5 minutes and a slight increases to the speed/range of Q). We're keeping buff testing light on him for a little bit since we're still assessing the impact of the 5.7 changes. He's definitely in a significantly better spot, and probably still has some untapped performance, but's probably still on the weak side too.
I do not agree with an XP increase for Bard chimes. Bard has yet the advantage to get additional permanent power and mana restore through collecting chimes, extra power that compensate the lack of stats coming from the lower EXP. if you got to increase EXP of chimes, you got to hit part of the power it come from chimes/Meeps
Aamano1 votesalong with a couple of other small Bard buffs (an adjustment so Chimes don't spawn deep in the enemy jungle in the first 5 minutes
THANK YOU BASED RITO
Terchio1 votesDon't go too crazy with it. If he suddenly keeps up with other supports, that means he will get support EXP while his ADC is soaking EXP as if a solo lane, which is probably too much.
Deep Terror Nami5 votesI have an idea;
darkdill2 votesNow that is a cool idea. Fund it!
Father Cthulhu4 votesIt'd be extremely unhealthy, though. He could put a shrine in top and mid, and hit lvl 3 before the enemy laners even hit lvl 2.
Deep Terror Nami1 votesThey could just half the experience gained through it for each one providing xp.
Father Cthulhu1 votesThen that'd just be adding more confusing mechanics on top of his extensive meep passive, ulti, shield, and starkly different q. I understand that he's a hard champion to play, but making him THAT hard is a little overboard.
Deep Terror Nami1 votesA mechanic that only your teammates can activate? Bard would literally not have to do anything special, unless you normally don't leave your ADC shrines when you leave lane.
Father Cthulhu1 votesI'm not so much talking about the players, but the difficulty of a champion can also make it difficult to balance properly. Right now, he's a little week. Be that because he's hard to play and people haven't learned yet, or he's actually underpowered, he's still a shitstorm of a mess to balance for the balance team. Adding another mechanic on his already extensive kit is unnecessary when you can just adjust the numbers that are already there, instead of adding more.
Neo Metalsonicv22 votes[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ie1QdgqO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-14T04:53:50.132+0000)
I have an idea;
- [Fates Intertwined] - Caretaker's Shrine now also gives a 20 second buff to any ally that uses it. While the ally has the buff, Bard shares experience in the area as if he were there (if he isn't). Bard cannot gain double experience from any source this way, and experience from neutral monsters is not shared.
Bard hitting level 4 when the enemy is just level 2 from the chimes at gromp blue and wolves isn't cool though.
No he needs more base stats probably maybe more damage on his stun. Buffing chimes is a good way to improve him as well. I kind of want him to get buffed a bit more it is a cool champion with lots of potential.
Serevas1 votesThe last line literally states that you don't get experience from neutral monsters, AKA jungle creeps.
FirexSaber1 votesBut what if you were to play Bard in the jungle? Then he would get the experience from killing the jungle creeps (since the line says experience isn't shared, so he can't sap exp from the jungler, but it doesn't say he can't be the jungler himself) and then lane experience on top of that.
EvilRabbitt1 votesMeanwhile in Mid lane: I'm level 4!!! AND KATS LVL 6!!! WTF? =P
Serevas1 votesThat's actually an interesting point, I didn't think of it in that way.
Deep Terror Nami1 votesI didn't think of that one, lol. But have you tried Bard in the jungle? He's probably worse than Braum. His clear speed is...well, he has none.
2HdJlAmDY11 votes...am I the only one that sees mid and top refusing to use his shrine because it would 'steal' their xp? yes it's stupid on many levels but...yeah try solo queuing the lower ranks and tell me it wouldn't happen.
Stonington1 votesI don't have a ton of experience on Bard, but the times I played him I felt pressured to pick up the chimes soon after they spawned. Since when you pick up more chimes the spawn rate of chimes increases. The faster you pick them up the faster Bard will grow. It would be nice for the cooldown on chime spawning to be reduced as the game goes on rather than by how many he picks up.
GuiltyGecko1 votesYou have to be careful with bard buffs. He is already on the cusp of being a decent jungler (He already can clear with full health, it's just slow). It would be best to buff some of his utility/reliability instead of raw damage. Considering he is the lowest win rate support, and the second lowest win rate champion in the game, I think he can afford some buffs. For example:
General: The change on PBE where his auto attack range was increased to 550 was nice. Why was that taken away? Many champions that depend on ranged auto attacks have at least standard or higher. Zyra, Lulu, and Sona are good examples.
Passive: You already suggested what I was going to suggest for chimes, so this is fine.
Q: Q is just really slow. Would be nice if it was a little fast, or had a slightly longer range.
W: Late game, the heal isn't very useful since you can't sit around and wait for the full 10 seconds. The W is used more for the speed boost. It would be nice if the max heal timer went down with rank to say 5 seconds instead of staying at 10 the whole game. Or, it would be nice if the speed boost duration or intensity scaled with rank. Also, please make W more visible in brushes.
E: I think E is mostly fine. If anything, you could make it so allies travel faster through the portal at earlier ranks.
R: I think R needs more incentive to put points into it. Right now, I just get one point in R and level it last because the only thing that improves with ranks in the CD and it isn't even by much. R is Bard's true "one point wonder" skill, and I don't think many people have realized it yet...
Apollocliptic1 votesvery true about the R thing, I figured it out only recently that there's no real reason to level it, I thought that if leveling R increased the spawn rate of Meeps, (while leveling E increased the spawn rate of chimes) passively, it'd give more incentive to level them, depending on the game you're having.
The other buffs, as much as they might help, would be too much too soon. I think single (or double) changes that are significant but subtle, are more important than mass changes right now. I think range on his Q would help a lot (even more than speed), and more vision of heals in brush as even I lose track of them sometimes, but ultimately pick two things (three if you think the W change as a visual update) and stick to that, if everyone agrees on 1 or 2 small changes, i think they're more likely to happen than a whole list that will tip him into the overpowered realm
GuiltyGecko1 votesOh ya, I dont think all the changes should happen at once. Maybe 2 at most. :)
Partholonian1 votesR: I think R needs more incentive to put points into it. Right now, I just get one point in R and level it last because the only thing that improves with ranks in the CD and it isn't even by much. R is Bard's true "one point wonder" skill, and I don't think many people have realized it yet...
This is an interesting point. Maybe his R rank could have passive effects on his basic skills like Sona's? She has a similar issue that the thing you're really taking it for is utility that doesn't (and really can't) improve with rank.
Each R rank makes W reach full charge 2 seconds faster, increases Q stun by 0.25 sec, and... IDK what to give E that's different from what it already gains from ranking up. Heals allies who travel through it for 5/10/15% of their missing health?
Or R could leave some kind of buff/debuff on affected targets (or the area itself, updating as people enter/leave) for a few seconds after the stasis wears off, which could strengthen with rank. Reduce damage dealt by enemies and reduce damage taken by allies, for example (the double whammy from hitting both sides of the same fight could be pretty darn strong -- maybe not "rumble ult is here, do you REALLY want to stay and fight on it?", but it's not necessarily crazy for it to have that level of influence even though it deals 0 damage by itself).
Also, seeing Apollo's comment below, a much simpler suggestion is that R rank could just significantly increase the spawn rate of chimes, because chimes already strengthen meeps and help Bard in other ways.
Godhri1 votesWhy not just make it a percentage xp gain then? That way it scales with level automatically. For example, he receives 10% of the xp needed to gain the next level per chime. Of course that was just an example.
Partholonian2 votesWhy not just make it a percentage xp gain then? That way it scales with level automatically. For example, he receives 10% of the xp needed to gain the next level per chime. Of course that was just an example.
Scaling with game time is actually better than scaling with level IMO -- if he's behind, he'll get better scaling, and if he's massively fed (somehow), he won't get much (but doesn't need it). Scaling with the level he already has is more snowbally.
Average level of all champions in the game would work too.
Godhri1 votesgood point.
The Trent1 votesBard is the roaming sup that gets out roamed by every other support.
Wilderwolf1 votesI just really want his "5 more chimes needed, 4 more chimes needed, etc." icon to show you what the next effect he'll gain will be when you hover over it instead of having to hover over his passive icon and looking at the very bottom of the wall of text to see it.
Qarekeo1 votesHere are a few issues I have whenever I play as Bard 
, despite having a lot of fun with him whenever I play and people loving it when I do. Note I am NOT a ranked player, and this may partially be my fault.
He does extremely little damage, even by support standards. While Cosmic Binding does decent poke at the very beginning of the game, by mid game his only offensive spell is essentially null. His meeps also seem to offer little in the way of help beyond very early game, and the low range of his attacks and Q make defending a marksman or himself hard to do without being outpoked. He also has the worst waveclear I've seen on a support (which I've used Zz'rot Portal to help compensate for), even other supports have some form of area damage or natural damage resistance. It makes defending especially hard.
His ultimate is infuriating to use. Almost any time I've used it I've had someone complain. I've accidentally defended enemies from friendly ultimates, frozen teammates while they were chasing, protected enemies during tower dives (I saw a Lucian jump into one before we dove the tower, it was pretty smart of him), or just simply saw the fight go on as if nothing happened. It seems like there are extremely few situations where it can really be used to your team's benefit, as it effects EVERYONE in a way that requires tight and singular judgement to make effectively (as in a certain item that only affects you personally). This is probably my fault, but it's still hard to judge when you can't predict everyone's movements carefully.
He seems to have little presence in teamfights. It may be telling that he's suggested to build full tank despite not having defensive scalings, consistent damage, or any very close-range utilities like true tanks do. I spend most teamfights baiting and skirting around the fight and using Cosmic Binding to trap enemies, or just dying immediately. I also seem to perform just as well (sometimes good, sometimes awful) no matter what I build. I won a game going tanky AD debuffer, seem to have middling success with full AP, and do iffy with tanky builds. His only scalings are extremely low, so maybe something that would suggest a build path would be good for him.
As mentioned above, there seems to be no truly good build for him besides Boots of Mobility. I've tried items like Black Cleaver and Wit's End in one game, Rabadon's in another, and Frozen Heart in another, but have the same success with him. This may not be a weakness, it may be, but I would appreciate a definite build path or set of build paths for him.
It can be difficult to collect chimes when you're losing. It's hard to come back from a losing game with him when the enemy team is scouring your jungle with Bard, and I've noticed that when I win, it's because the rest of my team is doing well and when I lose, I'm going 0/13/4 or somesuch stats. Also, when you have an aggressive lane against you, Bard can't collect chimes and needs to stay by the marksman, so he can't collect chimes and help the other lanes, and a cycle of defeat happens and the entire game goes down.
I don't know why he has the ultimate he does. I associate this character with high mobility and helping everyone on the team, and usually ultimates fit a character's theme. Bard's ultimate on the other hand, STOPS everything it touches and has a lot of potential to trap your own teammates. I think a mobility-based ultimate would suit him much better, either one that rushes Bard across a large distance (maybe like Pantheon's, but not dealing damage) would help him roam more safely or save losing teammates, or one that gives a huge speed boost to his allies would help him. A fun idea would be to have Bard jump a long distance and simultaneously slow enemies and speed up allies like Karma can. It would encourage a specific build (tanky) and fit his wandering and intervention theme more.
All in all, I think it's his hodgepodge design that's the problem, not necessarily raw power (though it may be an issue). It makes him difficult to build and really help teammates in a way that feels like a support. I'm sorry for not having suggestions for changes to make, but this is what I experience a lot.