Can you please make all crits, well, crits?

Nebuul·Oct 20, 2015·21 votes·1,744 views

Currently, not all critical strikes are consistent. Aside from Ashe, who has a whole new system, the following champions have special crit circumstances:

There might be a few more I'm missing, but the crux of the situation is this:

reduces the damage for all of the special crits for these characters. However, runes and items (I'm looking at you, ) do not always increase the damage. Can you just flip the switch so that these cases are either all affected by both crit increasing and decreasing effects or never affected by either? It is exceptionally obtuse, unclear, and inconsistent how it currently works.

Thank you for your time!

Edit: apparently her crit is not modified by it? I've heard conflicting reports. Either way, it is still inconsistent.

37 Comments

ZedastianOct 20, 20152 votes

I wouldn't count on that, considering Gangplank is a relatively recent rework and his whole gameplay pattern is centered around critting with barrels... Also, not so recent, but Yasuo would need a major rework if crit were to be removed as it is.

Doctor JarvisOct 21, 20152 votes

I don't think you read the thread...he's saying that Randuin's Omen reduces "crit-like" damage, like Karthus' Q and Anivia's E.

Photos of GhostsOct 21, 20151 votes

Pls read...

Kitten of EvilOct 20, 20152 votes

It's actually pretty absurd that Omen reduces Anivia damage. Late-game, her E can deal 500-900 damage, so that's a fairly substantial reduction for an item which isn't meant to counter long-range mages.

Like, nobody's going to go build item 3031 on Anivia, but at the very least if you penalize it like a crit, reward it like one.

NebuulOct 20, 20152 votes

Nobody will build IE, but I could definitely see people building crit damage runes instead of magic penetration, or something like that.

commit an heroOct 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Nobody will build IE, but I could definitely see people building crit damage runes instead of magic penetration, or something like that.

The red crit runes are a 20% increase to crits. To put that in perspective, just base damage alone, her max E would do 72 extra damage. That's actually pretty insane, considering we're not including AP.

NebuulOct 21, 20151 votes

So you can see why this is an issue. People can penalize her by 70 base damage already just from the tanking talent + omen (which stack together!).

commit an heroOct 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So you can see why this is an issue. People can penalize her by 70 base damage already just from the tanking talent + omen (which stack together!).

I was talking about the crit runes not Omen. Omen would be like 36~ base damage.

NebuulOct 21, 20152 votes

I'm pointing out that reinforced armor on the tank tree stacks with omen, so in fact you can have a base 20% reduction in damage vs a tank before any resists are taken into account

Br4ndonOct 21, 20152 votes

You forgot Soraka's Q can crit.

NebuulOct 21, 20151 votes

Yup, this is a fairly far-reaching issue. It affects (or doesn't -- randomly) a lot of champions. That's why I want it standardized, documented, and made clear.

Photos of GhostsOct 21, 20151 votes

Add it :D

LaoBushidoOct 20, 20151 votes

it is highly likely yet not confirmed that with the marksmen rework will remove the current crit and put a system similar to Ashe's crit system.

JbelsOct 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

it is highly likely yet not confirmed that with the marksmen rework will remove the current crit and put a system similar to Ashe's crit system.

Wouldn't that fuck over Yasuo?

kJsOct 20, 20153 votes

They might then rework Yasuo if it's the case.

JustMyBassCannonOct 21, 20151 votes

Actually it would fix a lot of issues with Yasuo. His power spike would be smoother, instead of an instant bounce to ludicrous damage from picking up Shiv.

Zair UmbrasOct 20, 20157 votes

They do not plan on removing the current crit system. Riot has said before that while it's not the best system, it's definitely required or else they'd have to rework not only the Marksmen, but any item that gives crit on top of fixing Tryn, Yi, Shaco, and Yasuo... That's 4 more champs plus Infinity Edge, Phantom Dancer, Statikk Shiv, Youmuu's Ghostblade, Trinity Force, Lightbringer, Lord Van Damm's Pillager, Cloak of Agility, Zeal, Wicked Hatchet, Brawler's Glove, and Avarice Blade. Plus they'd have to change Fiora's E (Again) and Pantheon's E's passive.

Kitten of EvilOct 20, 20152 votes

I mean, is "the next attack will do 150% of its base damage" really that difficult of a fix? At least for Shaco, Fiora, and Pantheon, this should be all they need.

Ace Access Oct 20, 20152 votes

if that happens then Ashe will feel less unique

JustMyBassCannonOct 21, 20151 votes

Because Riot never duplicates mechanics. Every champion has a 100% unique ability in their kit that has no parallels or similarities to other abilities anywhere else.

Remlap1223Oct 20, 20154 votes

The crit system is not getting removed, nor should it be. All crit needs is proper itemization, and it works perfectly fine. The problem is you've got stupid items like item 1051 and item 3093 that grant next to no crit chance, that cheese if you do hit one.

Crit should be a finished item bonus, not stuck on anything that builds into it.

DorkunedAurasOct 20, 20152 votes

I agree, ish. I think the only incomplete crit item should be item 1018 , as this builds into all the big ticket crit items. Then we should probably make the crit unique, just to make sure.

TurquoiseYoshiOct 21, 20151 votes

item 1018 is the worst item in all of history. It's only use is to build into Infinity Edge, and it isn't even built. People just get BF Sword, Pickaxe, and then finish the build in 3 backs. At least Avarice Blade is a good build path for Shiv and gives you lots of gold.

TurquoiseYoshiOct 21, 20151 votes

Remlap1223Oct 21, 20151 votes

Hey, don't forget item 3056 exists.

In all serioiusness, the only person I build that on is Ashe, solely because she actually gets damage from that, and it's cheaper than a pickaxe. Still will always try to get the more expensive items first.

CrettOct 20, 20151 votes

IE karthus... ahhhh

Zair UmbrasOct 20, 20151 votes

Karthus, Gragas, Xerath, and other casters that show a 'crit' animation are not affected by Randuin's. Randuin's only affects ACTUAL crits. Riot simply made the spells seem like crits to make it look nicer and also to make people go 'WTF' at the end game graph where a Gragas has done a 1k crit with pure AP items.

NebuulOct 20, 201511 votes

This is incorrect. Testing has shown that omen reduces the damage for anivia, and riot said it was intended. The confusing thing is why, then, other crit modifiers (namely crit damage runes and i.e.) don't affect them.

SouL1essOct 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This is incorrect. Testing has shown that omen reduces the damage for anivia, and riot said it was intended. The confusing thing is why, then, other crit modifiers (namely crit damage runes and i.e.) don't affect them.

Because Riot is inconsistent and Riot staff doesn't care.

TurquoiseYoshiOct 21, 20151 votes

You know, maybe Riot doesn't do things because, no matter how hard they try, they just can't convince people like you that they are doing things.

SouL1essOct 21, 20151 votes

They confirmed that spell damage that visually crits are affected by Randuin's passive, yet will not be affected by any other critical hit modifiers.

A.k.a. Spell Damage cannot actually do critical hits (they do not use the same parameter, e.g. Critical Damage and Critical Chance, as regular critical strikes), but still gets reduced by something designed to counteract critical hits.

It's absolute bullshit. They go along with bugs and bug abuse cases because it's easier for them to NOT do something than to actually fix the problem.

Riven still has no cast points to speak of, because any decent Riven player bypasses the cast points with bug abuse. Mordekaiser gets demolished from theme to playstyle because Riot decided that Mordekaiser has no place in their game. Fizz W's active nerfed again, and the only skill worth maxing is yet again E, making his laning phase extremely one dimensional. Instead of making the active apply a DoT and move the %missingHP damage to it, to nerf the synergy with AS and nerf the uptime on the percentage damage, they nerfed the on-hit damage and killed the skill for every Fizz build. Rengar can cast Ebola in the air but Kha'zix can't cast Void Spike in mid-air, even when both deals similar damage and contributes exactly to nuking/assassinating. Kalista gets released in a game with no turn rate. Tahm Kench gets buffed because not enough players played the champion at release when he's an unfair champion to begin with. Champion interaction is based completely in champion kits and not items, making champion balance as volatile as ever. Percentage damage allowed tanks to be the best snowballs in the game for a short while, until almost all of them got nerfed. Shyvana's W base damage got nerfed because she was clearing too well in the jungle, when the problem was her W doing 20% additional damage to jungle monsters.

Sometimes I don't think Riot is doing a good job when they could have done MUCH better. Sorry if I think Riot doesn't deliver.

Kitten of EvilOct 20, 20152 votes

I know Omen works on Karth Qs and Anivia Es.

But I thought testing showed that Omen doesn't affect Soraka Q "crits". It's incredibly inconsistent.

The Yetii RiderOct 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zair Umbras,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ic6Ej2TO,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-10-20T08:39:40.433+0000)

Karthus, Gragas, Xerath, and other casters that show a 'crit' animation are not affected by Randuin's. Randuin's only affects ACTUAL crits. Riot simply made the spells seem like crits to make it look nicer and also to make people go 'WTF' at the end game graph where a Gragas has done a 1k crit with pure AP items.

Riot has confirmed Randuin's reduces Anivia damage. They also said this is intended.

Minions4eVeROct 20, 20151 votes

I believe MissFortune Q works like this too

Chuck CharlesOct 20, 20151 votes

the crit dmg runes assuming you run them reds and quints equates to about i believe a 15% ish increase in dmg on the E only, so you'd have to compare that to the PEN and early game AP dmg you are losing for the later game spike. My guess is that early game youd be pretty damn weak on an already weak earlier champion (anivia im assuming) and only slightly stronger late on the E. maybe the E would do noticeable more damage, but your R and Q do not benefit from the crit dmg runes so in a team fight where people just stand in your ult it'd still be bad as the your missing the pen that amplifies your ult damage.

I think its a gimmicky thing that people are wasting their time requesting personally. People want to try it to see how it works, but can't. thats really all there is to it. The only two people crit damage runes have been viable on is gangplank and tryndamere in my opinion.

Chromatic EagleOct 20, 20151 votes

It does make me wonder how the Marksmen changes will affect crit.

DarkwindOct 21, 20151 votes

i mean what I'd really like them to do is make omen not do this. Because it's fucking retarded and makes no sense whatsoever that any of these things are affected by ANYTHING that affects crits, because... they have never been crits for any purpose other than visual indication that the extra damage occured.